Calling all Moms that had a veggie garden this year

[geegee]

How do figure out if it was all worth it? we worked alot and didnt seem to get much out of if.I liked that all th DC had a chance to learn to work the garden but Im not sure with what we put into the garden$$ wise it was worth it and I wouldnt want to keep paying on it if it wasnt worth it.Another question.What do you all do to make it less expensive?Thanks for your insites :heart :heart

[Lady TS]

I haven't done much in the garden this year due to my allergies. :(

In previous years, I just kept track of what I bought(seeds, plants, organic fertilizer). Forget the hours.

We set up a little stand at the end of our lane to sell surplus stuff for donation and that pretty much paid off most of our expense.

I kinda figure that if I get anything out of my garden (and it's organic), it wouldn't take much to cover what I didn't have to buy from the store. :shrug


We don't go too crazy. Dig/turn over the soil in the spring, figure out what we want to plant and get seeds(this year most seeds were from Walmart). Buy plants if so desired(this is what can be expensive) and fertilizer(also can be expensive but the crops are sooo much better when fertilized--fish emulsion is easiest IMO). We use grass clippings from mowing the yard and mulch around everything to really cut down on the weeding and most watering(we live in humid OH so don't have to water ground plants much).

Last year we froze/canned like at least 50 quarts or more of tomato sauce. Some spaghetti sauce and some salsa. (all of which I cannot eat due to my allergy to tomatoes! :()

[rosesnsnails]

I need to know the answer to your question also. I had a lot of green, but hardly any fruit. I got about 8 tomatoes before the spider mites attacked and now I'm getting some bell peppers. That's it. No watermellons, no cantalope, no sweet peas, no okra, cucumbers, green beans, or corn. They all came up and produced nothing! It was a lot of work and expense (watering) with very little return. :shrug

[Lady TS]

Tomatoes and peppers IME you have to fertilize to get a great crop. We slacked off on that this year and our plants are not producing anywhere near what they did last year.

Sweet peas like cooler weather. They won't produce once it gets hot. Soon you can plant them and have a fall crop. You will have to diligently water them from planting time to when they get a good start.

Corn takes awhile...lots of space too. It's dh's favorite crop to play with though.

Haven't had much luck with melons/cantaloupe here...to me they are a lot of work and a lot of plant for not much produce. But if you can get a homegrown cantaloupe, they are delicious! Haven't found the right method or we are just in the wrong region or something....I think I am too busy worrying about the other plants and the poor melons get lost by the wayside.

Okra likes it really hot and a long season. Haven't had a lot of luck there either. Maybe next year I will try okra since I CAN eat that! :think

Green beans are one thing I can grow and get at least one or two good pickings off of, but then the bean beetles get them! :mad I'm sure it doesn't help that we have soybeans all around us some years!(We live in the country). Royal Burgundy Bush Beans are less susceptible to bean beetles, FWIW.

[ThreeKids]

My mom and dad have been doing significant gardens for as long as I can remember. Because of my dad's surgeries, this will be the first year ever they won't be getting much.

She claims it's all a wash in the end - that the main benefit is knowing what you're eating is healthy. I can't see how it could be a wash, though. All they pay for is extra land taxes, gas for the tiller, electricity for the freezer and water pump, potting soil for starting plants, etc. She's been using the same canning equipment for decades. My dad dries most varieties of seeds year over year so that cost is minimal. They eat so much stuff from their garden that I'm thinking she has just become accustomed to not having to ever pay for certain things. Maybe she'll change her tune after she starts having to lug home store-bought tomato juice every week.

[tempus vernum]

we've had years that were phenomenal and years that were terrible. IT is a gamble :yes Farming and gardening are always a gamble :shrug

I keep track of our expenses and keep an eye on everything. I don't count hours worked.
Even the terrible years, we have about broken even. In great years, we have canned things and definitely it was worth

This year, I think we should save money on groceries. Even though it's not a good year, I had to pay to rent my garden and pay for gas to get there :) . We had way too much rain in June to make this a great year but I think it will end up a good year. :yes

[Lady TS]

Another thing that we have figured out---plant what you actually already eat!

I did have a few bowls of salad greens from my garden, and last night I got enough chard for myself for dinner. :heart Almost time to replant those, too!

The kids love coleslaw, and some people from the church were giving away cabbage starts--so we got those and put them in the garden and that has kept us in cabbage all summer.

Grape/Cherry tomatoes are prolific and easy for the kids to pick and eat while they are playing outside.

Cucumbers....well, I have one measly plant growing...but MIL is supplying them to me from her garden! Beets too!(another one I have a hard time growing in our clay soil.)



Ohhhhhhhh, you guys have recharged my garden button! The kids just left camping, so I am going to go out and work in the garden, uninterrupted! :rockon

[ThreeKids]

Actually, regardless of the cost, I will always do tomatoes. I just cannot get tomatoes in the store that are remotely what I consider a fresh, ripe tomato and I know I wouldn't make it to the farmer's market often enough to feed my family's appetite for tomatoes.

There are other foods that are starting to get that way, too. Cantaloupe is threatening to become that way. I've had a lot of store-bought cantaloupes that would mold before they would ripen. Papaya, too, but there's nothing I can do about that in Ohio.

[Lady TS]

Actually, regardless of the cost, I will always do tomatoes. I just cannot get tomatoes in the store that are remotely what I consider a fresh, ripe tomato and I know I wouldn't make it to the farmer's market often enough to feed my family's appetite for tomatoes.

There are other foods that are starting to get that way, too. Cantaloupe is threatening to become that way. I've had a lot of store-bought cantaloupes that would mold before they would ripen. Papaya, too, but there's nothing I can do about that in Ohio.


I didn't think cantaloupe ripened any more once picked. :scratch But yeah, I've had them mold too before I thought they were ready to eat! I try to pick ones out that give a little around where the stem was connected. If none of them 'give', then I don't buy any that day.

[Anani]

This year was my first garden.

I planted tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, banana peppers, sweet peas and onions. Not big at all.
Out of that, the tomatoes squash and cucumbers were the only thing that produced. I spent a fair amount of money on my garden. I spent a fair amount of time on, but I don't count that in the cost because for me, its not a waste of my time or anything, i really enjoy working in the garden.

I can't buy the quality of tomatoes or squash that I grew.

Next year I know just to plant the ones that produced.

[Lady TS]

This year was my first garden.

I planted tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, banana peppers, sweet peas and onions. Not big at all.
Out of that, the tomatoes squash and cucumbers were the only thing that produced. I spent a fair amount of money on my garden. I spent a fair amount of time on, but I don't count that in the cost because for me, its not a waste of my time or anything, i really enjoy working in the garden.

I can't buy the quality of tomatoes or squash that I grew.

Next year I know just to plant the ones that produced.


Did you buy onion sets or onion seeds? Sets product a standard onion-sized onion. Seeds take a looong time unless you are wanting green onions.

I didn't do so well with banana peppers this year, either.

This year has been really weird. It was rainy/wet/boggy soil well into June and now it is soooooo dry!

Oh well...maybe next year will be better!

[Anani]

I bought both onion sets AND seeds. I had a couple of little green onions sprout up and they were pitiful.

We have been SUPER dry here too and I think that is part of the problem.

[Lady TS]

I learned just this year that most people plant their sets too deep. I guess we should be planting them only like halfway into the ground and half half of them above ground!

[Hermana Linda]

My garden was totally worth it. :heart I got tons of zucchini, plenty of tomatoes and green beans. I also got green onions and radish pods so I have saved money. :yes And the joy of growing my own food, priceless.

[tempus vernum]

My garden was totally worth it. :heart I got tons of zucchini, plenty of tomatoes and green beans. I also got green onions and radish pods so I have saved money. :yes And the joy of growing my own food, priceless.


You sound like a mastercard/visa commercial :haha

tomatoes $2
Beans $3
zucchini $3
growing my own food -- priceless

:giggle and it's true :rockon


I learned just this year that most people plant their sets too deep. I guess we should be planting them only like halfway into the ground and half half of them above ground!


Ya know, I always push my sets until I can just barely see the tip. Usually, they grow well and I lose almost none :mrgreen T his year my onions all grew OUT of the ground and were super small - maybe they got kind of washed away cuz our heavy rain :think :think

[Marielle]

well I have a small 4x4 sfg plot plus a 1x2 planter and two pots. NOTHING grew at first except for the lettuce and cilantro. Too bad it was already hot so it was bitter and bolting/going to seed. Still I revered that 1 foot space where mesclun was growing like crazy.

Then I figured God was teaching me a lesson in not having to control everything so I had the kids start throwing in seeds. The marigolds grew! Yay for my flower picking kiddos who lovingly pick weeds all over our yard and call them "beautiful flowers". The tomatoes finally grew and we're waiting on some forming fruit of those, the bush beans are definitely growing faster than the caterpillers can damage the leaves and the zucchini, well we're giving it a 5th try. If anything they make fascinating seedlings.

But the one victory that will have made the whole effort worth it? The little 1x2 planter was planted a third time with the basil and this time I didn't water it to death. :lol So we actually have basil, and the other day when a recipe called for fresh basil my oldest and I went out and harvested our own basil. :woohoo

See I have a black thumb. I can't (or at least couldn't) grow anything. The fact that something is growing despite my lack of ability is an amazing and blessed thing to watch.

[Hermana Linda]

Way to go, Marielle! :highfive


You sound like a mastercard/visa commercial :haha


I did that on purpose. :sillygrin :heart

[Lady TS]

Ya know, I always push my sets until I can just barely see the tip. Usually, they grow well and I lose almost none Mr. Green T his year my onions all grew OUT of the ground and were super small - maybe they got kind of washed away cuz our heavy rain think think

:think Maybe what I read was in reference to planting in clay soil or something. That is what we have and I was looking into how to grow root veggies in our soil since we haven't had much luck there.

I forgot about the potatoes! Dh is in charge of the corn and he also made a sort of frame from some used lumber we had and put potato sets in it and covered them with straw. He let them grow for awhile and then put another layer of straw. I think it's about time for more straw again. Come fall, supposedly our frame is going to be full of easy to harvest potatoes!

[geegee]

We have clay soil too :) I heard that the best way to grow potatoes is to grow them in old tires,putting potting soil in the tire and after they grow you just take a tire and there you go :)

[mellymommy]

Actually, regardless of the cost, I will always do tomatoes. I just cannot get tomatoes in the store that are remotely what I consider a fresh, ripe tomato and I know I wouldn't make it to the farmer's market often enough to feed my family's appetite for tomatoes.

There are other foods that are starting to get that way, too. Cantaloupe is threatening to become that way. I've had a lot of store-bought cantaloupes that would mold before they would ripen. Papaya, too, but there's nothing I can do about that in Ohio.


I agree!! We have such an over-abundance of tomatoes in our garden right now and dh has really enjoyed learning to can them. This weekend we are going to make a huge batch of marinera for canning. Next weekend we will make a bunch of salsa for canning. We eat both of those a lot, so being able to can them ourselves saves us money.

We planted a lot of pickling cucumbers, too, and now we have about a 2-year supply of freshly canned pickles!

I agree that you should plant only what you will eat. We always seem to plant a TON of zucchini and I end up only frying them or making zucchini bread (some cooling right now). Next year we will plant only one zuc.

We haven't had much luck with our onions and carrots EVER but dh is determined to keep trying with them. We've done pumpkin and watermelon successfully but that was when we lived in CA. Our peppers are looking a little weak right now but the habeneros are coming out just fine--I think they are too hot for any insects!

I'm in OH, too, so I think I may try canteloupe next year. What should we be planting for fall and winter?

One tip I have for fertilizer...compost!!! Either build your own or just designate a corner of your yard for all your compostable materials. Our garden is relatively small compared to our yard so we compost all the grass clippings and fall leaves in the garden. Dh tills it right before the snow starts falling and then it gets compressed by all the snow. This year we won't till when it is time to plant but just dig a tiny hole to plant the seed & let the soil do its work.

[RubySlippers]

We learned a lot from the experience, but didn't get much return on our monetary investment.
I was able to harvest a few lettuce leaves and tomatoes. I've replanted most of the garden for a fall crop.
The best thing about it was the learning experience. I never knew there were so many bugs and that they would infiltrate mercilessly. It makes it tough to have an organic garden. :/ Even so, I hope to have better results in future.

[Macky]

Wow, can't believe I missed this thread. :scratch

:) We get a great return on our garden. So far, from a 55x65' garden, we have in the freezer:

82 meals of green/yellow beans
23 meals of broccoli
28 meals of peas
8 meals of asparagus
24 meals of corn
12 pounds of rhubarb

(Each freezer bag holds enough of each veggie for one meal for our family of three - two adults and one 2.5-year-old.)

We're just starting to get tomatoes - I have 16 plants averaging 20 or more large toms per plant. The pumpkins are just ripening; there are about 12 out there. My peppers aren't impressive, but I'll get a few. Beans will be done in the next couple of days; I've been picking them for a month now. The carrots, potatoes and second batch of beets are still out there, too.

I typically spend about $100 on seeds, but this year I had some leftovers and only spent about $50. I grow all my own seedlings - that's where you save BIG TIME, especially if you reuse containers. According to hubby, the energy used on my grow lights is negligible. I probably buy a new tool of some sort every year - maybe $30. We already have a large rototiller, but it's only used once in spring (usually) to prepare.

As already mentioned, the keys are to use your limited space to produce only what you are going to eat and grow only what will grow in your climate. This is doubly important for me in zone 2 - my season is VERY short. There are a lot of things I'd love to grow (watermelons, red peppers and most heirloom tomatoes), but have to accept that I can't and not waste the garden space on trying anymore. I focus on things that are either expensive or don't taste good from the supermarket, so that makes it far more worthwhile. I didn't fertilize at all this year - my soil simply didn't need it. I'm big on feeding the soil, not the plants.

Which brings me to a trend I have to admit doesn't make sense to me at all. Gardening in shallow soil. :scratch Call it SFG, container gardening, raised bed gardening... I don't get it. Soil is alive. Imho, you can't isolate it from the earth with plastic and wood pots and frames and expect it to remain productive for your garden for many years to come. Amend it all you like, but it will never have the growing power (microorganisms, drainage, organic matter, etc.) that you get by digging right into the ground. It makes gardening FAR more expensive than it needs to be. If it's the only way you can have a garden where you live, obviously you must, but you really have to just accept that you'll be spending significant time and money for not as much produce in the end. Jmho.
:hiding

[BHope]

Which brings me to a trend I have to admit doesn't make sense to me at all. Gardening in shallow soil. :scratch Call it SFG, container gardening, raised bed gardening... I don't get it. Soil is alive. Imho, you can't isolate it from the earth with plastic and wood pots and frames and expect it to remain productive for your garden for many years to come. Amend it all you like, but it will never have the growing power (microorganisms, drainage, organic matter, etc.) that you get by digging right into the ground. It makes gardening FAR more expensive than it needs to be. If it's the only way you can have a garden where you live, obviously you must, but you really have to just accept that you'll be spending significant time and money for not as much produce in the end. Jmho.
:hiding
We're gardening in our backyard, which, after the destruction brought by the builders, is a wasteland for real growth. The amount of $$ I'd have to invest in our yard to create a productive vegetable garden would be counter-productive. That's partially why the SFG works for us. We use native soil, compost, and organic matter in our garden and try to plant in accordance with our zone. That's about as good as it will get where we're at.

I will say that we've had more Zucchini and squash this year than I care to ever eat again. :giggle My tomatoes got scorched and never have produced. Although one measly vine seems to hang in there. My bell peppers have produced some warped plants that the bugs get to faster than I do. And the only other thing I planted (despite having more than enough squares left.) is some basil that is really thriving under the shade of the Zucchini. Next year I'm hoping for more tomato success and will probably move the Zucchini to it's own little space. It kind of exploded all over my SFG.

[Hermana Linda]

Zucchinis tend to do that. Although, one year it was my tomatoes that exploded all over my garden. :giggle

[tempus vernum]

I was nodding and agreeing on feeding the soil, growing what you'll eat and then you lost me with this quote.


Which brings me to a trend I have to admit doesn't make sense to me at all. Gardening in shallow soil. :scratch Call it SFG, container gardening, raised bed gardening... I don't get it. Soil is alive. Imho, you can't isolate it from the earth with plastic and wood pots and frames and expect it to remain productive for your garden for many years to come. Amend it all you like, but it will never have the growing power (microorganisms, drainage, organic matter, etc.) that you get by digging right into the ground. It makes gardening FAR more expensive than it needs to be. If it's the only way you can have a garden where you live, obviously you must, but you really have to just accept that you'll be spending significant time and money for not as much produce in the end. Jmho.
:hiding




Raised bed gardening isn't shallow gardening at all - it is not using only the top part of the soil, it's putting the soil up higher so it drains easier which is particularly helpful if your soil is clay like or you have periods of heavy rain throughout the year. There is no bottom to a raised bed so it's not "shallow" gardening :scratch

ANd SFG says that container is not ideal but gives ideas for it for those that have no other options.

SFG is about space AND soil improvements on the top 12 inches of your soil so that you can grow the highest amount of food in the smallest place. The process is

1. dig down into the soil or building it up (i.e. raised beds),
2. mix in compost, vermiculite or peat mosss,
3. put it back in so that your soil is nice and loose and ready for gardening. Then they space things VERY close together to cut down on space used for people who don't have lots of garden space.

It also reduces water usage and it said to be more environmentally friendly. ANd is supposed to cut down on weeding.

He talks about soil being a live living things and drainage, microorganism, etc. and how to improve your soil, prepare your soil for the growing season (best done in fall), etc. I do think that MANY people skip the preparation of the soil. I actually think it's the most important step and the author of SFG goes into great detail about why the soil must be cared for and why we need good loose, soil.

AFA container gardening, IMO, this is an option for people who can't bend over to garden and people who don't have gardening space (or enough of it). The soil needs to be changed every year. In fact, the few containers I had in the past, I dumped into my garden every year in the fall and mixed in with compost and whatever I was improving the land with. Then the next year, I took some out and mixed with equal amounts of peat moss before planting them again.

Maybe that helps you understand a bit. :)

[RubySlippers]

AFA container gardening, IMO, this is an option for people who can't bend over to garden and people who don't have gardening space (or enough of it). The soil needs to be changed every year.

We have a SFG that is raised off the ground (has a bottom) because we only have space on a concrete patio.
According to Mel :), composting to enrich the soil is an absolute must and he gives instructions in the SFG book. I didn't read anywhere that the soil must be changed every year.
Our garden did really well until the aphids & white flies devoured it.

[tempus vernum]

AFA container gardening, IMO, this is an option for people who can't bend over to garden and people who don't have gardening space (or enough of it). The soil needs to be changed every year.

We have a SFG that is raised off the ground (has a bottom) because we only have space on a concrete patio.
According to Mel :), composting to enrich the soil is an absolute must and he gives instructions in the SFG book. I didn't read anywhere that the soil must be changed every year.
Our garden did really well until the aphids & white flies devoured it.


Sorry I was referring to tiny containers ;) For a larger container you must compost every year and may find by year 5 or so that you have to dump the soil and start over. Just depends on how you crop rotate and what you grown and if you get any diseases and how well nourished the soil is. You can also do a ground cover and turn it in for nutrients one year to replensih. In some circumstances, you may make it longer than that ;) Yes, Mel gives great directions on containers and bottomed spaces :rockon I understand the concept though of "it won't survive out of the ground for many years".

I really love SFG and think its such a great option for us city folk that don't have the space for large gardens. I love how he gives careful and clear directions for preparing the soil each year too :rockon A lot of gardening books neglect that aspect IMO :)

[BHope]

I also think it's important to note that traditional gardening did allow soil to rest every few seasons. (Every seven years come to mind, but I'm too tired to figure out where I'm getting that number. lol.) So it makes sense that soil needs replenished or rested. :rockon

[Marielle]

not to mention that mel's mix isn't even soil to begin with - it's peat moss, vermiculite and compost. The yearly ammendment is the compost.

[Macky]

Just wanted to reiterate that I did NOT dismiss container gardening (and I consider a SFG with a bottom a "container"). If it's the only way you have to garden, then go for it!!! :yes But if you'll go back to the original post, it was asking us whether our gardens gave us worthwhile returns. The expense that container gardening involves usually surpasses the monetary value of what you can produce in it. Raised beds without bottoms don't fit into my :scratch category at all. Raised beds warm much faster than the ground around them in the spring, which is advantageous for those of us in cold climates. In that section, I was trying to answer the OP's question in terms of return on monetary investment. Container gardening just doesn't give the same return.

Most of the people I talk with on gardening forums who do SFG, place the frames wherever they please and fully line them with plastic or massive layers of newspaper. Most of the folks who garden this way (at least by reading forum threads) are always posting about production or pest problems and the standard answers involve intensive amendments, fertilizers and chemicals. My garden requires little amendments. It is divided into four sections and we only garden in one per season, therefore the other three are rested. I rarely fertilize - compost or soluble chemicals. Obviously, not everyone has the room I have, but that's not the point. Once you've initially built up your soil, you should not have to keep adding copious amounts of amendments. A couple inches of compost a year and rotating certain crops should be sufficient. Really.

There's also no reason a person can't apply the principles you outlined, Jodi, to an in-ground garden. I plant ridiculously close according to my neighbours and in-laws. Even at that, next year I'm challenging myself to put nearly the same amount of produce in half the space and intercropping more.

My entire post was from the point of view of economy, in answering the original post.

[Macky]

Manda, you're getting that 7 years from the Bible. ;) Even large farmers around here still try to fallow every few years if possible.

[tempus vernum]

Just wanted to reiterate that I did NOT dismiss container gardening (and I consider a SFG with a bottom a "container"). If it's the only way you have to garden, then go for it!!! :yes But if you'll go back to the original post, it was asking us whether our gardens gave us worthwhile returns. The expense that container gardening involves usually surpasses the monetary value of what you can produce in it. Raised beds without bottoms don't fit into my :scratch category at all. Raised beds warm much faster than the ground around them in the spring, which is advantageous for those of us in cold climates. In that section, I was trying to answer the OP's question in terms of return on monetary investment. Container gardening just doesn't give the same return.

Most of the people I talk with on gardening forums who do SFG, place the frames wherever they please and fully line them with plastic or massive layers of newspaper. Most of the folks who garden this way (at least by reading forum threads) are always posting about production or pest problems and the standard answers involve intensive amendments, fertilizers and chemicals. My garden requires little amendments. It is divided into four sections and we only garden in one per season, therefore the other three are rested. I rarely fertilize - compost or soluble chemicals. Obviously, not everyone has the room I have, but that's not the point. Once you've initially built up your soil, you should not have to keep adding copious amounts of amendments. A couple inches of compost a year and rotating certain crops should be sufficient. Really.

There's also no reason a person can't apply the principles you outlined, Jodi, to an in-ground garden. I plant ridiculously close according to my neighbours and in-laws. Even at that, next year I'm challenging myself to put nearly the same amount of produce in half the space and intercropping more.

My entire post was from the point of view of economy, in answering the original post.


Ah, I see. :idea I got it. I wasn't reading it that way but now I see where you were going from an economic standpoint :shifty :doh

SFG is definitely also for inground gardens :yes That is kind of what we are doing next year ;) Except, TBH, I prefer companion planting and intercropping more than the *exact* method of SFG :rockon and some of his spacing is a hair tighter than I prefer :shrug

[tempus vernum]

I also think it's important to note that traditional gardening did allow soil to rest every few seasons. (Every seven years come to mind, but I'm too tired to figure out where I'm getting that number. lol.) So it makes sense that soil needs replenished or rested. :rockon


Soil resting is important :rock and I agree with Spirited Duo it was the bible. BUT they did rest the land every 7 years then too :)



not to mention that mel's mix isn't even soil to begin with - it's peat moss, vermiculite and compost. The yearly ammendment is the compost.


Very good point - mel's mix is very different. I haven't ever actually used his mix as our raised beds I did SFG were above soil ;)

[AngelaVA]

Nope, not worth it money wise at all for us. Three years in a row we have done it and I am finally going to give up. Each year we have spent progressively more money based on advice about soil and planting beds, square foot gardening etc but there is just really nowhere in our yard that gets enough sun. Next year I am planting more shade loving perennials and enjoying my trips to the produce market.

[Macky]

I wonder if there are any books out there on economically reclaiming damaged earth, like in the situation you have, Manda. I might get on GardenWeb later to check if I have time.

I said we have four garden areas - and we do - but when I planted the northeast corner last year for the first time, it was the most terrible garden we'd ever had. None of us could figure it out. The soil looked exactly the same. I even fertilized twice. It came to me after the season was over (of course). The previous owners (we bought this place from friends actually) had always grown their main garden on the west side of the lilac hedge (which we've now divided into two plots) and planted entirely corn and potatoes, year after year, on the east side of the hedge. :doh Corn especially is a heavy feeder, so year after year of it in the same spot without any rotation completely depleted the soil. Duh. Right now we're working on the perennial weeds in that area. When we've got those under control, I want to plant a year or two of legumes as a cover crop to be dug under. This will mean we'll have to be more intensive on our current spot for those years, so I've started a big compost heap to replenish it quicker than our usual resting period would.

So what am I doing on my backside in front of the computer then, lol!

[BHope]

I wonder if there are any books out there on economically reclaiming damaged earth, like in the situation you have, Manda. I might get on GardenWeb later to check if I have time.

I'd really be interested in any links to resources. There is a local farmer's market/organic gardening center that offers classes on gardening and replenishing soiles. I was able to make it to one class and then DD3 was born. Haven't been able to get back since. :shifty

I do wish we had the space for more plots. As it is, I think two squares of 4x4 gardens may be our limit. (The second square is planned for next spring and may end up being where I put my Zucchini if I can ever get back to a place where the idea of eating another zucchini doesn't make my stomach wince. LOL.)

[Hermana Linda]

:giggle Oddly enough, I'm still fine with zucchini, and I've had a steady supply. :shrug3

[tempus vernum]

I wonder if there are any books out there on economically reclaiming damaged earth, like in the situation you have, Manda. I might get on GardenWeb later to check if I have time.

I said we have four garden areas - and we do - but when I planted the northeast corner last year for the first time, it was the most terrible garden we'd ever had. None of us could figure it out. The soil looked exactly the same. I even fertilized twice. It came to me after the season was over (of course). The previous owners (we bought this place from friends actually) had always grown their main garden on the west side of the lilac hedge (which we've now divided into two plots) and planted entirely corn and potatoes, year after year, on the east side of the hedge. :doh Corn especially is a heavy feeder, so year after year of it in the same spot without any rotation completely depleted the soil. Duh. Right now we're working on the perennial weeds in that area. When we've got those under control, I want to plant a year or two of legumes as a cover crop to be dug under. This will mean we'll have to be more intensive on our current spot for those years, so I've started a big compost heap to replenish it quicker than our usual resting period would.

So what am I doing on my backside in front of the computer then, lol!


:giggle I think another way of replenishing the soil is to grow a green manure and turning it into the soil when it's a certain height. If you do that over an entire season or two, you may be surprised at the improvements. You can google "green manure" and find a few different to grow. If of course, you can't grow much because of lighting, there are shade loving veggies ;) I actually heard that people have dug down 12 inches and THREW out their soil and then BOUGHT new soil from a garden place - that is a bit beyond my comprehension but . . . :shrug

To start our new beds and improve our soil right away, we are using a heavy application or malorganite, peat moss or straw and then we are covering it for the entire winter with a landscaping tarp and mulch. Malorganite is compost pellets made from human waste -- a milwaukee specialty :giggle and it's what I use when my compost is gone ;)

[Macky]

I think another way of replenishing the soil is to grow a green manure and turning it into the soil when it's a certain height.... I actually heard that people have dug down 12 inches and THREW out their soil and then BOUGHT new soil from a garden place...

We live in a big farming area, so I've gotten in the habit of calling green manure a cover crop, because that's the term everyone is familiar with here. :) Properly using the term, a "cover crop" is grown alongside a main crop, but the end result is the same - it's turned under before maturity to add nitrogen to the soil.

Trouble is, if you have really bad soil, you probably wouldn't be able to even grow a green manure (I'm thinking of stony, gray and dusty construction sites where the topsoil has been taken away). If there are enough rocks in the area you want to reclaim, you might just have to just bite the bullet and remove what's there because you'll tear up a rototiller in it.

[BHope]

because you'll tear up a rototiller in it.
:yes2

[Macky]

Haven't found what I'm looking for in a soil book yet, but I did remember this book that came up in a GardenWeb thread a while ago:

http://www.amazon.ca/Gardening-When-Counts-Growing-Times/dp/086571553X/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1KPEFWC2NH9BG&colid=2ACW4K6QCN36I

Sounds like a lesson in economical gardening. :)