At What Age Should a Child Be Able to Obey and Tame Their Temper?

[chelsea]

I'm really frustrated with 4.5-year-old ds. If he kicks me, telling him he may not kick me is sure to get me another kick. I cannot ask him to do something and have him do it. Telling him he may *not* do something almost *makes* him do it. He's either angry and defiant, or blocks out my voice. When he blocks out my voice, it doesn't really bother me because I realize it's normal for little boys, so I try to make eye contact, get to his level, etc.
But his raging. This is starting to really scare me, because I can remember things from the time I was 3 and forward, and I would not EVER dare to disobey my parents so blantantly, nor would I EVER have had the nerve to kick, hit, or bite them. I would have been spanked and that was it. So I learned not to do it. Ever.
I try logical consequences with ds (putting toys away for awhile if he refuses to help me pick them up, etc). Something I feel I've done wrong is that when he has begun to have a tantrum, I have always taken him into our room and sat with him. I wanted him to know that I still love him and would not leave him alone in a room when he has made a bad decision. However, he gets SO angry when I take him to the room, and giving him bear hugs makes him angrier. He screams and says "You are choking me!" when I try to bear hug him. :jawdrop :jawdrop :jawdrop And it's difficult to hold down 50 pounds of kicking, hitting, biting, screaming 4.5-year-old. When I'm in the room with him, he tries to hurt me. I feel like leaving him alone in the room is my only option. I hate to do it but I don't know what else I can do. I cannot allow him to think that he can beat me up. It's VERY disrespectful. I'm a single mom and I have to be "the tough guy". He must learn that he cannot hit people, especially women. :no2 Not only that, but if I don't help him tame his wild antics now...what is parenting him going to be like when he's 14 years old and big enough to really hurt me?! :nails

[ArmsOfLove]

Not only that, but if I don't help him tame his wild antics now...what is parenting him going to be like when he's 14 years old and big enough to really hurt me?! You are allowing fear of what may happen in a decade cause you to overreact now--breath deep and know that this issue is not out of bounds for a 4.5 yo. YES it is inappropriate. YES it needs to be addressed. NO it does not mean that struggling with this at this age will result in abusing his girlfriend in his teen years :hugheart

You know what words set him off, and what things you do that he reacts poorly to--so don't do ineffective things, regardless of your motivation.

I would try talking to him in very solid boundaries--I will NOT allow you to hurt me. And if he starts to react poorly I would immediately put him in his room alone and tell him he may come out when he is ready to behave appropriately.

The other suggestion is, at this age, make sure he goes to the bathroom regularly. DS would get really ragey if he needed to potty.

[chelsea]

Not only that, but if I don't help him tame his wild antics now...what is parenting him going to be like when he's 14 years old and big enough to really hurt me?! You are allowing fear of what may happen in a decade cause you to overreact now--breath deep and know that this issue is not out of bounds for a 4.5 yo. YES it is inappropriate. YES it needs to be addressed. NO it does not mean that struggling with this at this age will result in abusing his girlfriend in his teen years :hugheart

You know what words set him off, and what things you do that he reacts poorly to--so don't do ineffective things, regardless of your motivation.

I would try talking to him in very solid boundaries--I will NOT allow you to hurt me. And if he starts to react poorly I would immediately put him in his room alone and tell him he may come out when he is ready to behave appropriately.

The other suggestion is, at this age, make sure he goes to the bathroom regularly. DS would get really ragey if he needed to potty.

Thank you for being awake at this time of night answering questions! :heart
I have tried to be vigilant about going potty. He DEFINITELY is affected by having too full a bladder. That is a definite raging moment for sure. :yes2
Something that really seems to be an issue is bedtime. When we are in bed, he takes forever to get to sleep. He often starts "gently" kicking me. When I tell him to stop, he does it harder, and then harder, and then harder. At that point I usually lose my cool. He seems unable to be laying in the same bed as me without trying to hurt me at some point. He has his own bed but never wants to sleep in it. He insists that he wants to sleep in my bed but I'm wondering if his bedtime antics are his way of telling me that he really does want to be in a different bed (even though he gets angry when I remove myself from the bed, and when I remove myself from the room when he jumps out of bed and runs towards me and kicks again.)

[ArmsOfLove]

bedtime can be difficult. How is your evening rhythm? I'd make sure bedtime isn't too late, I'd make sure he gets his energy out and gets some relaxing time before heading to bed, and I'd talk to him about a very firm boundary: I will lay with you and help you get to sleep as long as you can lay still and respect my body boundaries.

I also work with my children about HOW to go to sleep: You can't force it, you can't make it happen. You lay still, close your eyes, stop your mouth, breath deep, and let sleep come.

Do you have a goodnight song? That can help.

And if he is kicking you move away--tell him, "I will not let you kick me" and, if need be, get a door in between you. As soon as he realizes you are FIRM about this boundary he will stop hurting you. Not allowing it is the best way to stop it :tu

[Marsha]

Wow, my 4.5 yo dd did the same thing. kicked, hit, spit, raged............it was scary for me honestly.

We finally made a list of privileges: TV, computer, (I don't even remember them all right now LOL) and we'd take them away. Now, Crystal said that she responded to that not because of the taking awya of privileges but becasue it was a firm boundary. Problem is, I needed a firm boundary and something that I could do besides feel powerless and helpless and angry which was a pretty bad combo. And it was at least non violent and trust me, I felt pretty violent. So I look at it as, It got us through without damaging our relationship too badly, certainly better than if I'd beat her once or twice which I can admit I wanted to do.

And she spent a lot of time in her room calming down, too. We discovered that us "helping" her just fed into her drama and cycle at that point.

I can say that she is a completely different person now. She just turned six, and things went a little shaky over the spring, but NOTHING like last year!!

[Heather Micaela]

My 4.5 year old rages too. I think it is rather normal at the age. I did not, but that is because I was raised punitively and my emotions were not welcome. But bottling up my feeling for 20+ years resulted in me needing counseling as an adult. I'd rather my kids feel safe to express themselves while we teach them the appropriate ways to do so.

If dh is around he bear hugs her till she calms down. And we just constanly remove her from harm or from harming other things and people.

[butterflyqueen71]

:hugheart

It is especially difficult as a single parent because even if he has never *known* having a father in the home, subconsciously he knows that something is missing and doesn't know how to express it. :heart Especially now that he's getting older and is more conscious of how family dynamics work. Just a theory. :shrug

My dd has quite the temper as well. With her, it's not so much that she kicks or hits, but hers is very verbal, and she'll get "stuck" on a phrase and say it over and over and over...almost like a mantra. If I try to get her out of it, it just gets worse. So I've gotten to the place where I'll just let her get it out of her system. Yesterday was a day like that. We were going to go to a store and she sassed or something, so I just turned around and went home. Inconvenient for me, yes. However, I knew that if I took her into the store with that kind of attitude, it would have been worse. So of course she tried to apologize her way out of it and when I said "nope, we're going home"...tantrum. Now, we were in the car, and she screamed and yelled and kicked my seat all the way home. I managed to remain calm! :jawdrop

When we got home, she calmed down and sat on my lap and that's when I gave hugs, and we talked. She actually asked me to pray for her that she wouldn't want to "do bad things", so we prayed and asked Jesus to help her big feelings and to be respectful to Mama. :heart We also talked about what to do next time she felt that way. And after that we had a wonderful day. :shrug

I don't know why I shared all that except to say that as a mother to a 4.5 yo, ITU. It's hard to know how to handle their "big feelings". Dd is naturally very expressive of her emotions, good and bad, and I don't want to suppress that. Yesterday when she tantrumed, I tried to let her know that I understood how she was feeling, and when she'd say things like "You're a mean Mama!" I would just say "but I love you SO much". Or she'd say "I don't like you anymore", I would say "but I will always love you!".

The good news is that as she gets older, the tantrums are few and far between. Oh, and also she rages more if she has not had adequate SLEEP. Being overtired is a HUGE trigger for her.

Don't know if any of that is helpful, but :hug2

[chelsea]

It is especially difficult as a single parent because even if he has never *known* having a father in the home, subconsciously he knows that something is missing and doesn't know how to express it. :heart Especially now that he's getting older and is more conscious of how family dynamics work. Just a theory. :shrug

I've always wondered this. I'm coming to a point in time where I know that soon there will be soon be questions from him about it. :nails
The sleeping thing is a big issue here. We have always struggled with having a regular bedtime (it's a struggle for him AND me :blush ) and I really want to work on that. I wonder if consistency in bed, waking, and mealtimes will help much?
I have gone home before when I knew that going to a store was going to be a bad idea. I feel like I'm fairly consistent, and yet his reactions are SO inconsistent that I never know how things are going to go from one moment to the next. :/ It's so frustrating! :crazy

[WanderingJuniper]

:hug2
I can relate.
My oldest has been like that since about 2. We went the full spectrum of things to do. What has worked, hmm. . . maybe the best wording there is what has made things manageable in our home :yes is routine, no dairy and finding a balance between freedom to express the large emotions and boundaries. She is allowed to scream and yell in her room but may not throw things or hurt people. If she attempts to hurt someone. She gets a very large bear hug and I say "You must calm down." "Your body needs to relax." "We will not hurt our family." among similar things over and over in almost a whisper.

For us bedtimes must have a routine. Timing isn't too crucial but the routine is. Jammies, brush teeth, pick a book, snuggle on sofa & read, to room, pick music, hugs and tucks. As long as we've that routine it doesn't matter if it is 7pm or 9pm. It is very hard for me to stick with the routine but if I don't we are in for it and it is just not worth it anymore for me to break routine.

:hug2 I hope you come to a solution that eases things for you.

[JellyBean]

Well, I can relate in a way but not as the parent...I'm the one with the temper. :shifty Sadly when you ask at what age they should be able to tame their temper my first thought was, "I'm almost 30 and still learning to do this!" Some people just struggle with anger more than others. I have found if I do not get exercise and sun, I am so much worse. Sitting in a house all day makes me super irritable. I have also learned that running is the best way for me to control my temper. When I have fits of rage, which thankfully are not too often, I just immediately go running (as long as that's possible) and then I deal with the problem. Not sure if its the endorphins or just blowing off steam but it helps me so much. I get to the point where I have such big emotions I feel like I am going to explode and I have to do something to get them out of me. So just try and empathize with him when he's feeling these big emotions and try and teach him ways to get them out.

[chelsea]

I've put him in his room almost 10 times today. It's either that or spank him, which I've been able to keep myself from doing. If my mom was at home right now (she's on vacation) I'd be getting "the look" right now...the look that says "If you spanked him this wouldn't be happening." This is out of control. He won't do a single thing I ask of him, and he's in there screaming "I have ONE more minute left!" When she comes home (tomorrow) I can't have him acting like this. I'm going crazy! Honestly, I've taken him off dairy and I don't know what else to do.
:crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

[ArmsOfLove]

he's pushing the boundary. Unless there is a practical reason he wants to know if your boundaries are firm without the spanking--just keep telling him they are :tu :hug2

[MarynMunchkins]

:shrug I don't really think going to your room 10 times is horrific. It's seems on the high end of typical to me.

But let me reassure you, that spanking does not help people calm down and process emotions. They may be too scared to express them - or they may fight back because they are scared. I wouldn't recommend finding out if you have a child that is truly raging. :no ;)

[Joanne]

would not EVER dare to disobey my parents so blantantly, nor would I EVER have had the nerve to kick, hit, or bite them. I would have been spanked and that was it.

I want to challenge your logic a bit. :O

You are assuming that it was the fear of spanking (again) that created your compliance. Therefore, you are seeing his behavior through the paradigm of *lack* of punishment. I submit that it's more likely personality and temperment.

I also pick up a tone and of permissiveness in your parenting. This is what leads to your feeling like spanking him. In one of your posts, for example, your son has the opportunity to kick more than once and he kicks harder. For a child like that, "gentle kicks" would not be allowed and I'd be across the room with a firm "NO!" the next time his foot moved in a kick direction.

[chelsea]

I also pick up a tone and of permissiveness in your parenting. This is what leads to your feeling like spanking him. In one of your posts, for example, your son has the opportunity to kick more than once and he kicks harder. For a child like that, "gentle kicks" would not be allowed and I'd be across the room with a firm "NO!" the next time his foot moved in a kick direction.

Thanks for having the guts to say that. :hug
He is always pushing the boundary, to the point where I am not sure where the boundary is myself. For example: Last night we are laying in bed waiting for him to fall asleep. I have told him not to bite several times. We even have a book called "Teeth Are Not For Biting". Well, this is where it becomes blurred. He doesn't really bite. In fact, he hasn't "bitten" me for so long that I can't remember him actually doing it. :think Instead, he opens his lips and presses his teeth against my skin and then looks at me as if to say "I'm not biting you, but look how close I got!" That makes me almost angrier than actual biting, because he pushes, pushes, pushes the boundary and I then have to make up ridiculous rules like "No pretending to bite" and "No teeth touching other people's skin." He's not *hurting* me physically when he puts his teeth against my skin but it infuriates me because I know exactly what he's doing, and so does he. What should I do in that kind of a situation?

[Joanne]

What should I do in that kind of a situation?

You say "Knock it off, dude. That's gross and rude." And you move away the *moment* he tries. Better yet, if he does it, it's a choice on his part to leave the cozy time.

Have you ever read my post on my blog about kids who *need* firm moms?

http://goybparenting.com/morejo/?cat=10

[butterflyqueen71]

Instead, he opens his lips and presses his teeth against my skin and then looks at me as if to say "I'm not biting you, but look how close I got!" That makes me almost angrier than actual biting, because he pushes, pushes, pushes the boundary and I then have to make up ridiculous rules like "No pretending to bite" and "No teeth touching other people's skin." He's not *hurting* me physically when he puts his teeth against my skin but it infuriates me because I know exactly what he's doing, and so does he. What should I do in that kind of a situation?

Man, you ds and my dd sound like the SAME CHILD!!!!!


What should I do in that kind of a situation?

You say "Knock it off, dude. That's gross and rude." And you move away the *moment* he tries. Better yet, if he does it, it's a choice on his part to leave the cozy time.

Have you ever read my post on my blog about kids who *need* firm moms?

http://goybparenting.com/morejo/?cat=10


:popcorn

Will be coming back to read that blog!!! :D

[chelsea]

Have you ever read my post on my blog about kids who *need* firm moms?

http://goybparenting.com/morejo/?cat=10

I have started to read bits and bites of your site in the past but it's always been at times when I was feeling overwhelmed and I didn't have the energy to do even one thing more and so I wasn't able to read the whole thing. It's been a pretty good week, and I'm ready now! :grin
I just read the first two entries on that link now. WOW, does that sound like my son! For example, he nursed almost all night, every night until he was over 3.5 years old and I had to initiate nightweaning. He also reacts strongly to choices. I remember one time when he was 2 or 3 and we were on a winter walk. We had gone to the top of the loop, and I asked him if he wanted to keep on going in the circle, or walk back the way we had come. BIG mistake! :jawdrop He would not decide, and it ended up with me carrying him ALL the way home, kicking and screaming because he simply could not decide. I was so shocked because I had always been told to give children a choice but clearly my giving him a choice was WAY too much for him to handle.
I will be reading more! :rockon

[Marsha]

I couldn't give my oldest choices. I still am judicious about them, and she's 6. My younger is starting to do the wig out over choices too, but it appers as though she NEEDS them, she just doesn't always like the choices I give her. They are very different.