Was Jesus spanked?

[Katydid]

Or I guess the correct question would be would Jesus have been spanked in his culture? :think

This question sort of came up in our women's Bible study last week and I've been thinking about it. :think At the time, I didn't really know what to say and the question was never really answered by anyone.... the one response it got was, "well, was Jesus naughty?" and someone said, "well, he never sinned..." then it didn't get answered any further...we moved on to other subjects. :shrug Almost all of these women believe in spanking (mostly Dobson-style) but are otherwise a very open-minded group. :shrug In fact the woman who made the "naughty" comment actually dislikes Dobson because of his treatment of homosexuals. During the conversation that I found that out (that she doesn't like Dobson) I was able to share a bit that I don't agree with his parenting advice, either. Almost everyone in the room at the time was pretty silent, so I have no idea if they thought I was a loony or if it gave them some food for thought. :shrug One sweet, young woman (not married, no kids) said in response to what I had to say "Aww, when I have kids, I want to be a gentle Christian mother!" :heart (For clarification, this conversation happened over a year ago and is not the same conversation about Jesus being spanked that happened last week)

Anyway, back to my question.... were kids spanked back then? And if so, since Jesus never sinned, by spanker's reasoning he would not have "needed" a spanking, right? I wonder what people who spank for childhood inquisitiveness think Jesus was like as child? :think Do they think he was just perfectly silent and still as a baby? Do they think he never asked him mommy a million questions? Do they think he never played in the mud or got dirty? We already know he when off to the temple without "permission".... :shifty

And if parents didn't spank back then, when did spanking, as we know it begin? :think

Thoughts?

[MrsHutch]

I've been wondering this too lately! :popcorn I'm so glad you asked this because I kept meaning to ask and kept forgetting.

Could I sort of piggyback on your question and add:


And if parents didn't spank back then, when did spanking, as we know it begin? :think


And if they didn't spank, what did they do? Is there any way to know this? :scratch DH and I have talked about it and he seems to think that it would be pretty hard to find out how they raised children in Bible times. Would the method of discipline be the same for OT times and NT times?

Anybody know? (*ahem* Crystal.... :shifty)

[Wonder Woman]

not crystal but I have permission to phm (pm me if you don't know what that means :shifty :giggle I don't want to hijack the thread further! :hug)

http://aolff.com/?page_id=93

and here:

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=124530.msg1219536#msg1219536

:-)

[J3K]

phm ? Post Her Message ?

[Wonder Woman]

del

[Katydid]

:giggle I'll pm you ;) It has to be pm'ed :shifty


Now I'm curious.... :shifty

[Katydid]

So after reading those, the answer is they did not spank back then? :think

When did it start, then? :shrug

[Wonder Woman]

Hebrew culture didn't support spanking. But child abuse has been around for a long, long time - remember the Hebrews were in the middle of a culture that thought nothing of gladiators, feeding children to wild animals, flogging men, women, children, etc.

I'm not sure I'd try to argue that spanking is a modern invention - although all the 'godly spanking' manuals can be directly traced to the spencer spanking plan :sick . I think how and why people spank or beat or flog has changed over the years. I'm not sure when it entered 'Christian' culture :think

I also think that if people want to try to support the rod verses as literal they need to go watch videos on caning. :shiver

[Soliloquy]

I think that when European cultures embraced Christ, they continued w/ their traditional child-rearing practices which included whipping & spanking. They then looked to the Bible to find justification for what they were already doing, like slave owners did. :bheart

[Six Little Feet]

:giggle I'll pm you ;) It has to be pm'ed :shifty


me too please

[HuggaBuggaMommy]

I also think that if people want to try to support the rod verses as literal they need to go watch videos on caning. :shiver


:yes2

[Mama Bird]

You know, I always see Jesus in my mind as being a lot like my son. He was fully human, we must remember. I'm sure He asked questions, made messes, skinned His knees, and said funny things. How could any fully human little boy not do those things? :heart

[Katigre]

As far as i understand, our concept of spanking (on the bottom, with a spoon or hand) was not the form of discipline back then.

More common would have been hitting anywhere else on the body - the face, the upper back, etc... I also don't think that young children were physically punished like in our culture. Rather, it would have been the tweens/teens who would have gotten physically punished because they are older and should have known better.

I have friends who live in a very traditional middle eastern culture and that is how it is there, it is sort of the opposite of how corporal punishment is portrayed here in the US (i.e., spank when they are young and when they are older they won't need it / it won't be appropriate).

[peacefullone]

pm me too. :blush I feel like I'm missing something.

what a great question? I'm subbing. and need to learn this too. :heart

[HomeWithMyBabies]

You know, I always see Jesus in my mind as being a lot like my son. He was fully human, we must remember. I'm sure He asked questions, made messes, skinned His knees, and said funny things. How could any fully human little boy not do those things? :heart


:heart That reminds me of a song I used to love: http://www.kidbrothers.net/wabairi1.html#blmmly

[Synesthesia]

That reminds me of some show i saw called Secrets of teh Bible. it said according to Apocrypha young Jesus was very mischivious, but he also used a mantle to get water for his mother...

I'd like to read those, they sound extremely interesting.

[MrsHutch]

So what DID they do in Bible times? Are there any books or references that tell us? How do we know that Hebrew culture didn't condone hitting children? :scratch

[ArmsOfLove]

from all the history written by the Jews :shrug they were amazing record keepers and the Rabbinical works go back for thousands of years. Some rabbi's *allowed* "corporal punishment" but there was nothing like the ritualized spanking that is taught today. Even many Jews today go :hunh at that idea--especially if you try to link it to Scripture :shifty

Actually, the concern with corporal punishment was that it may result in one of two "sins" on the part of the child (though they would have been horrified at the thought of striking a child under the age of 5 :/). The two concerns were that it might: 1) provoke him to anger and result in hate or rebellion against the parent, which would make the parent responsible for causing his child to stumble in the command to honor his father and mother and 2) provoke him to anger and result in him striking his parent back resulting in violating that command and the law that forbid striking an adult Jew without a legal proceeding (which is why the child in Deuteronomy had to be brought to the elders at the city gate for stoning and the parents couldn't do it themselves). Which means, it is quite probable that when Paul admonishes parents to not provoke their children to anger he is specifically referring to the Rabbinical teaching to AVOID corporal punishment and registering his agreement with that position.

[MrsHutch]

from all the history written by the Jews :shrug they were amazing record keepers and the Rabbinical works go back for thousands of years.

Are there particular books I could get my (and my husband's) hands on?

[ArmsOfLove]

I'd Start with Samuel Martin's "Thy Rod and They Staff They Comfort Me: Christians and the spanking controversy" http://www.biblechild.com/