Okay I am struggling with consequences...

[preciousEJ]

EJ (2.5yo DS) stamped the wall with a Winnie the pooh bear stamp yesterday afternoon. Hubby and I were both just sitting there talking (but not looking) and we turned around and there he was proudly stamping the wall. So, he knows not to draw on walls because he's already tried that with a crayon... But I don't know if that means he knows not to stamp the wall. KWIM? Hubby wanted to give him time out for it :( But I did not know what to do... so he got time out. Hubby and I are butting heads on this at the moment.

So, I cannot be supervising him 24/7. When he does something like that what do I do? And how do we establish boundaries with him without giving him a list on 1000 rules each with variations? :think What is an appropriate (for age and action) consequence?

[preciousEJ]

Another thing... natural consequences aren't cutting it for DH. How do I explain to him that a two year old can be affected by the natural consequences of his actions enough that he doesn't need further punishment? :shrug

[MarynMunchkins]

Having had 3 2 yo's, all of whom have colored on the wall, I don't think there are very many 2 yo's who will get the natural consequences of drawing on a wall and stop. ;)

Lock up the art stuff and only get it at when you can supervise it. And realize that you will always miss something, and that paint is cheap. :P

[KitKat]

Ummm, welll, for me it would have been a simple....

"UH OH, look at the mess. Here, help mommy clean it off." Get two rags, one for him to help with, and one for you to do most the cleaning. He is still way to young to be adept at it, but he can "help" to clean up his own messes. After a few times of this, he will either a) figure that the clean up isn't worth the mess or b) as my daughter did, write all over the walls, but now when she is done, she gets her own rag and cleans it off. She thinks it is worth the time to clean it up, so why should I complain. It always gets cleaned off and she enjoys both parts, the drawing and the washing it off.


As for explaining that natural consequences work, well first, how are YOU defining natural consequences? I am wondering, because at his age, he shouldn't really be experiencing natural consequences much at all. Logical consequences, yes, natural, not much at all, unless by accident.

But as for explaining it, just tell him to look at his own life. As an adult, we deal with natural consequences daily, and we learn from them without the need for additional punishment (OK most of us do). As for logical consequences, I just explain them to my dh in a way he understands "make the punishment fit the crime". Not the best analogy for what we do, but dh comprehends that and it works for him, and helps him be creative with what he does.

[Marsha]

WEll, at 2.5, I think I would have considered the natural consequence of ME leaving stampers where he could get them was a stamped wall. :)
I don't think 2 year olds "get it" to that extent to stop themselves.
I would look at it like "time to keep art supplies locked up".

[Iveyrock]

We had the exact same thing happen here. (except it wasn't pooh - my wall now proudly proclaims IAN down the hallway.) And our paint is so cheap that we can't clean the walls, the paint comes right off.
I can tell you that my 2.5 year old really didn't "get" that no drawing also meant no stamping. He wasn't trying to get away with anything - he just didn't know the rule applied to both. In our case, I just explained that we don't stamp walls, either. Then I made sure I was watching when the stamp was out. Any further indication of wall-stamping would have meant the stamp gets put up for good. Not as punishment, but to set him and me up for success.
And, since I didn't clarify that no stamping walls meant "we only stamp on paper" - I came home from the doctor the next day to see that Ian had proudly stamped his whole naked body - including a prominent IAN right on his pee-pee. (grandpa was babysitting).

[milkmommy]

At that age I would have had him help me clean then put all the "art" supplies out of reach and tried my best to nclude some supervised art time in each day.

Deanna

[GotMyHeartFull]

At that age I would have had him help me clean then put all the "art" supplies out of reach and tried my best to nclude some supervised art time in each day.

Deanna

ditto

[mamaKristin]

WEll, at 2.5, I think I would have considered the natural consequence of ME leaving stampers where he could get them was a stamped wall. :)
I don't think 2 year olds "get it" to that extent to stop themselves.
I would look at it like "time to keep art supplies locked up".



:yes :yes :yes

[Crawfish Monica]

Yeah, at this age the best you can do it make sure the art supplies are kept out of reach. You can ask for help in cleaning the wall but I wouldn't really expect much in the way of real help either. At that age, wiping was one of my child's favorite past times but he wasn't great at it.
Another thing you can do when you see your child drawing, coloring, stamping an inappropriate object is to say, "Oh, I see you want to do some art! Well, sit right here at the table and I will give you a sheet of paper to use. Art work stays at the table!"

[preciousEJ]

Ok, now I just feel stupid. I know to lock things up and out of the way but he gets into our study and finds pens etc... there has to be more than that, right?

Part of my problem is that dh is soooo against this GBD thing. I am here for help. I want to sit down with him and go through it all but he just doesn't get it. I don't know what to do.

Our walls are the kind that you can't clean very well. The stamp is still on the wall and we are renting. :/ We'll try and scrub it off together tomorrow.

DH also struggles with the age relativity thing. I say, "DH we have to remember, he IS only two years old." And he says, "So, in 10 years are going to be saying, 'Oh, he's only 12 years old'." OF COURSE WE AREN'T. I am just sooo super frustrated. I have been here (GCM ) over a year and am still trying to get my head around it. Each time I take a few steps forward DH pulls me back.

[milkmommy]

:hugheart yea DH was like that also and ditto to the renting. However at 2 why we don't have to go around going. Oh honey uh oh (syrupy sweet) you drew on the walls.. Its really up to us to block there access. That includes blocking his access to the office making sure all writting stuff it up ect.. Its okay for him to hear No and for him to hear that no in your voice have meaning. There is a natural / logical conquence to this its he looses access to the drawing stuff even more (ohh can't go get pen from office) he seing the cause and affect of having to clean and actually hearing a no. When that no turns to belittling and shaming him as a way for him to remember though :(

Deanna

[OpalsMom]

It helps with the rules if every time you introduce an art supply or see him with a writing implement, you remind him that they are for use on paper. In fact, we go over the rules for *what* paper (DD's paper, paper that I give her to draw on, paper from the recycling bin, you may not write on/cut up any other paper ever).

Framing rules in the positive ("Pens are for paper") helps solve the 10,000 rules problem ("Don't draw on the walls. Or the table. Or the curtains. Or the couch. Or actually any furniture. Or the door....")

I would have jumped up, said "No! Stamps are for paper!" taken the stamp away and put it out of reach, and explained that now we needed to clean the wall (Magic erasers are your friend). I would have explained that now he couldn't use the stamp unless I was able to watch all the time. I would have gotten him to help me clean. As for DH, I would have told him that a timeout doesn't fix the immediate problem (the dirty wall) or prevent a re-occurence like taking away the stamper does. I also would point out that I'm not going to be going "Well, he's only 12" if my 12-year old is still in diapers, either. (My DH: "But I got a job at a teenager because I was so polite! She has to say please and thank-you!" Me: "Honey, she's 2. She has a lot of problems as a prospective employee that are more pressing than being too shy to say 'Thank you'.")

[preciousEJ]

(My DH: "But I got a job at a teenager because I was so polite! She has to say please and thank-you!" Me: "Honey, she's 2. She has a lot of problems as a prospective employee that are more pressing than being too shy to say 'Thank you'.")


I love it! Thank you and I wish I was a quick as you are!

Claire :)

[canadiyank]

Remember, you are teaching what *to* do, not just what not to do. So the moral of the story here is: You make a mess, you clean it up. Wouldn't life be a lot easier if everyone applied this simple rule to their life? :lol So really, you're teaching valuable life skills here. Magic erasers are excellent for that type of thing. And I only ever bought washable markers and crayons.

I know it's not easy for dh or people who don't understand age-expected behaviour. I have been there! I was just talking with a friend today who differently I respond to my child who's 6 in a couple wks. and my 2yo. My 2yo does things that would have made me insane with my first b/c I saw them as deep dark character defects that needed to be "consequenced"out of her...now I see it more as, Ok, grab a rag, vs. "Oh my goodness my kid is going to be vandalizing public property when she's 12 b/c I didn't provide the correct consequence (read: punishment) when she was 2!"

You dh might find Why Christian Kids Rebel (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christian-Kids-Rebel-Heartache/dp/0849918308/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-1100534-3061265?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190431599&sr=8-1) helpful. While not completely non-punitive, it talks a lot about the *real* things that cause rebellion in children. I am finding it very helpful as I read through it. :)

[preciousEJ]

thanks canadiyank - that book looks great. I have been wanting to read Grace based parenting for a while so I might buy them both soon. Once we have some money again :/

I often prompt myself to teach him what to do and not to just be saying no all day long - it's so important. Thanks heaps for the reminder.

[canadiyank]

Glad to help. :hug