bossy child

[Justicesmom]

First I will say things are getting so much worse. Yesterday was a really hard day for ds 1 and I and my husband just so happened to be able to be home until 1:00 today so I took ds 1 out to breakfast. I also took him to the teacher store to pick up some learning books for him. He seems to really need some structure and enjoys learning. There is no pressure here because if he doesn't like it I will just ditch it. Anyway, we got home and I put ds 2 to bed and dh and ds played while I went out. When I got back ds 1 was downstairs by himself. Apparently he and my husband had tryed to watch a video together, but my ds kept saying I don't want to watch this video in a very whiney way and saying stuff like turn it off now! So, dh was nice and said okay here are some other options of videos we can watch he ds picked one and was very excited about watching it. Dh put the video in and ds again started shouting that he didn't want to watch it. Dh ended up saying he was going to go upstairs by himself and ds could do what he wanted to do. Dh feels like ds is not respecting him and it is not okay to talk to him that way. He feels that spanking is the only way to get that across to him. Please help me here. What am I supposed to do with a very bossy child who tells us what to do? It is so hard to spend time with him because he is always telling us how to do things. I really wish I could take a video of him and show it to all of you. It is sooooooooo frustrating! :banghead It is so much more than what I am describing here. It is just constant whinning from him and nothing you do makes him happy. He is very and I do mean very tempermental. Please tell me there is something I can do here. I do have to agree with dh he is being disrespectful most of the time. Before we would just spank him and explain to him that that was not okay to talk to us that way. Again, what do you do about a bossy disrespectful child?

[OpalsMom]

Stop trying to please him.

Seriously, if my job is to make you happy, what's your job? To be unhappy, so I can make you happy. He sounds like he's really good at it.

So with a kid who's not happy with the options I'm providing, supposing that I've tried all the reasonable stuff and am dealing with any other issues, that's OK. They can be unhappy. If they're going to be unhappy by making annoying noises, they can do it somewhere else. I'm available to help should they want assistance stopping being unhappy, or should they choose to be unhappy in a way that doesn't torture me -- and I have suggestions on that, too.

Depending on the age of DS1, I probably agree with your DH that it's not OK to behave like that. I don't believe that spanking is the only way to get that across.

As for being bossy, there are decisions DD gets to make and ones she doesn't. She is expected to be reasonably polite about the ones that are hers to make (she is 3.5, so "reasonably polite" is a relative term and I often allow retries, sometimes with a script). As for the others, she can do whatever she's going to do, but the grownups decide. If she has input, it had better be polite or it will be ignored.

[Susan K]

If I as the parent wanted to watch a video then I would say that .I am watching this prorgam.You can do something else.I would give ideas. I would then say after the show I will do something with you. I would then stop arguing with him.
Susan

[Justicesmom]

Thanks ladies. What do you do about the disrespectful thing? Do you just say let's try that again? Oh, I feel like maybe if he won't stop whinning I should send him to his room for him to whine there if he so chooses. What do you think about that?

[OpalsMom]

I have a graduated scale; whether I'd just do "try again" depends on your DS's age and abilities. At one end of the scale, I coach. So if we're approaching a new topic, or DD is unhinged, I might say "Do you mean 'I'd rather watch something else, please?'" or "Try 'This video isn't as good as I thought it would be. Could we switch again, please?'" Somewhere in the middle, I might do "That's disrespectful. Try again." or "That's whiny. Try again." When she's usually solid on how to do it and nothing else is going on, I get to "That's disrespectful. I'm not going to consider disrespectful requests." and when she tries again "No. You were rude. You don't always get to try again."

Certainly, in our house, you can be unhappy, but you can't make horrible noises where they bother other people. So choosing to whine means choosing to do it where the rest of us can't hear you. I don't care whether it's her room or not, as long as she's out of earshot and not monopolizing space somebody else needs.

[Joanne]

Opalsmom posts are spot on in this thread. I agree completely.

To offer a bit more specifics for your DH discussion, start by agreeing that it is difficult, unacceptable and firm boundarires are needed. Your DH probably needs to know and hear that GBD isn't permissive.

[farmerswife]

So interested in this topic. My 3 yo is bossy too...

I agree, firm boundaries are needed. How do you enforce them??

Like what if they don't leave the room when you tell them to go whine somewhere else? Or they keep arguing, yelling after you say the discussion is closed and you really aren't responding in any way?

[OpalsMom]

Arguing and yelling after the discussion is closed comes under "making horrible noises the rest of us have to listen to". Which brings us back to what you do when they don't leave: pick them up and carry them.

[farmerswife]

And then what do you do when they keep coming after you? I can carry her to another room all I want, and she will just continue "tantrumming" and following me. The more I interact with her (carrying her back to her room) the worse it gets. We've gone bouts of more than two hours, until she finally wears herself out.

I guess for me, I don't see what she's learning from this because I'm still forced to listen to the horrible noises, so in effect, my saying that to begin with didn't make one whit of difference.

I'm not trying to take the topic from Justicesmom, but it sounds as if our kids are pretty similar...

[OpalsMom]

Well, what I do is gate her in her room. That's not a solution everybody can live with or ought to be able to live with. (I have also been known to go to my room. It doesn't lock, so I sit against the door.) When DD is able to listen to advice about calming down, or being upset without torturing everybody else, I provide it.

The other thing to bear in mind is that I don't do this when DD is in full melt-down. For DD, the fastest way out of a full melt-down is to be in my lap. If she's whining or arguing or whatever, she hasn't melted down yet. So for her, I can do whatever it is I'm gonna do until she melts down, help her get past the melt down, and then we are ready to move on. That really, really works for her; run into the boundary with a big SMACK! and then, OK, she gets it. This really, really does NOT work for every kid. But for her, I hold the boundary, she blows up, we cuddle our way past that, we discuss how to do it differently next time, and next time, she does it differently.

Your kid isn't my kid, and your family isn't my family. Some things you might want to think about:

How much scripting do you do? Before you try "take it somewhere else" do you try scripting her? DD is an extremely verbal 3.5 and I still script more often than I refuse her a second try.

How good are your kid's self-calming skills? Can you help any with that? (The book "Dealing With Disappointment" is great for that. One of the key insights is that it helps to teach skills when kids are not upset.)

If you're trying to extinguish things by ignoring them, you need to be calm. (This is really, really hard.) "Ignoring" through clenched teeth with your whole body saying "YOU'RE TORTURING ME" doesn't work. If you're going to carry her back to her room, you need to be able to do it exactly the same laid-back way every time. If you can't do that (and lots of people can't lots of the time, including me) then this kind of strategy isn't going to work for you.

Is a comfort corner a good option for her? Or for you?

[farmerswife]

Ok, so I totally made this thread be all about me. Did not mean to do that. Sorry!

I'm definitely going to look into some of the things you all suggested. Thanks.

And she is very much a high needs child; when I found Dr. Sears book by the same name when she was about 8 months old, I cried through the whole thing finally having someone understand what she was like. I'm amazed you guessed that by this one post!

[ArmsOfLove]

farmerswife--it's very difficult to answer the questions you are asking because they are more hypothetical. The answer depends on a lot of things. Basically, i'd parent them. They need me to parent them whether they are listening or not--i don't get to decide I'm done because they are having a hard time. But, also, children raised with GBD from birth don't usually (barring extreme circumstances) have the problems you're talking about (at least not long term because they try and realize it's not worth the effort ;) )

[Justicesmom]

Steal away girl. You are helping me too. :popcorn

[canadiyank]

For disrespectful voices and words, I teach the difference between that and a pleasant and respectful voice. Often this is with lower tones of voice (vs. high and whiny ones). I'll script. "Try again in a respectful tone of voice. 'Mama, I feel upset about that.'" Eventually it's simply, "Try again."

Afa "getting away with it," I'm not worried about that. I'm teaching her what *to* do, what my expectations are, and how to do better for next time. I could punish, but I'd still need to do all that. :shrug farmerswife - you might find this (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=49848.0) article helpful. :tu

[mamaKristin]

I just had to have a giggle over this thread title...as my soon to be 3 year old is um, rather opinionated these days. :shifty

(to set the scene, my mother had given my girls 'princess wands'. Bug was trying to whack every piece of wood on the deck with it. That was loud, annoying, and could break the wand. DH told Bug that she could choose to not use her wand as a weapon or she could choose to have it go in toy time out. With one hand on her hip, the other waving her wand she told DH that "this is a pretty thing, a nice thing, and it's for me, and you CAN'T take it away. Daddy, you may not take it so I will choose to not hit it"...all while stamping one foot. It was really, really hard not to laugh :shifty)

have a graduated scale; whether I'd just do "try again" depends on your DS's age and abilities. At one end of the scale, I coach. So if we're approaching a new topic, or DD is unhinged, I might say "Do you mean 'I'd rather watch something else, please?'" or "Try 'This video isn't as good as I thought it would be. Could we switch again, please?'" Somewhere in the middle, I might do "That's disrespectful. Try again." or "That's whiny. Try again." When she's usually solid on how to do it and nothing else is going on, I get to "That's disrespectful. I'm not going to consider disrespectful requests." and when she tries again "No. You were rude. You don't always get to try again."
:tu

[illinoismommy]

So we are talking about a 3 year old? My son will be 3 on Monday and he is really bossy too. It irritates me the most :banghead

I am helping him learn how to ask for things nicely. He may not whine. He needs to ask nicely.

Mostly I have been realizing how much it is me..... I need to be responsible for things in the home. I set the mood more times than not. If I do not wisely maneuver then David might have a long fit leaving me frustrated and him frustrated.

It is kind of hard to explain since its something that is still happening in me, I think God is at work :O

Maybe I will be able to say more about this later :think

My son's birthday party is in a few hours

[Spanish Rose]

The other thing to bear in mind is that I don't do this when DD is in full melt-down. For DD, the fastest way out of a full melt-down is to be in my lap. If she's whining or arguing or whatever, she hasn't melted down yet. So for her, I can do whatever it is I'm gonna do until she melts down, help her get past the melt down, and then we are ready to move on. That really, really works for her; run into the boundary with a big SMACK! and then, OK, she gets it. This really, really does NOT work for every kid. But for her, I hold the boundary, she blows up, we cuddle our way past that, we discuss how to do it differently next time, and next time, she does it differently.



:yes That's how Snapdragon is. It's as though he needs to blow up in order to process the information. It's not pleasant, but I can't find a way around it. And some of the sweetest and most meaningful discussions we've ever had are in the aftermath of a huge meltdown. It's so hard,yet essential, to remember, that underneath the angry, exhausting exterior is a vulnerable child.

This is a great thread. :cool

[Beauty4Ashes]

My two year old is like this, very demanding assertive. There are times when I just don't know what to do with him, like tonight, sigh.

[ArmsOfLove]

I wanted to come back and clarify--in my last post what I was trying to say is that children who have been GBD'd from birth have been taught the boundaries from birth so as they can respect them they do. There isn't a choice to not respect the boundaries. There are times they don't respect hte boundaries, but the boundaries are reinforced and the child learns that resistance is futile ;) Failure to respect the boundary is not seen as "misbehavior" so much as "inability to comply". When you realize it's a lack of skills/abilities and not something they are doing on purpose to get you or to get their way you can have grace while enforcing the boundary. That is the essence of kind and firm.