Coloring on the walls and locking doors.

[FourCutieBugs]

:mad :mad :mad :mad :banghead :banghead :banghead

SO what do I do? My now 4 year old doesn't seem to get it. I just finished repainting a huge long hallway and our upstairs room due to his.... well I can't even think of the word. It's not artistic. It's wild crazy ooh, look we're having fun on the walls going nuts with writing implements. I paint and he colors. this goes on and on and on. I feel like my hands are tied and I feel like a wimp. I just remember conversations my husband and I have had about this to the effect of, I did that when I was a kid... ONCE. Because we were both spanked and then we didn't do it again. SImple, huh? This is destructive. This time, I just went upstairs to my freshly painted room up there and he had (or they, my 3 year old could have been in on this), taken a blue ballpoint pen, (actually emptied a new package I just bought and had put upstairs in my desk drawer), and they actually jabbed holes in the wall and pulled the pen down and made a series of long violent streaks down the wall with them. It's not being creative on the wall, it's pure destructiveness.

In the past I have just had them "clean it" off the wall. Which of course is silly, because often it was non-washable crayon, and permanent ink pen or pencil. The only way to get some of this off is to paint. This happens repeatedly.

ANd locking doors. I have managed to get my 4 year old to UN-lock the door by gentle means, but not to discontinue doing it. I just explain to him that it could be very dangerous for him to lock himself in a room or to lock us out of the house.

FOlks. I feel like an idiot. I feel like I need to just give this kid a good old fashioned spanking and end this destructive and dangerous behaviour once and for all. But Then there's all this philosophical objection I have from all the reading I've done. homestly i can't remember a single thing when push comes to shove, and I end up doing nothing because I know I can't spank.

HEEEEELLLLPPPP!!!!!! :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

[jenn3514]

:popcorn, My now five yr old has been doing this for about 5-6 months now. The walls, sheets, inside his sisters closet door (with nail polish)
We've had him clean it up, taken away all markers, crayons, had him make restitution for ruining his sisters sheets (a coulpe of extra chores) he's still doing it!

[Rabbit]

I would gather up all the implements they're using on the walls and put them away. Really truly away, even if that means in a box on a high shelf in the garage. I'd keep my pen or two locked up in the house, wherever I could lock it. Then when they do need to use crayons or markers or what have you, you control when to get them out, and do it only when you can supervise every minute of it. Buy them washable crayons and markers for those times when they do make off with one, and only paint your walls with scrubable paint.

For the inside doors, you have different choices, though they're not all great.
1 - Take the knobs off and put them back on with the lock on the outside. (You risk having the 4 year old slam the door and lock it with you inside.)
2 - Replace the knobs with knobs that don't lock.
3 - Take the knobs out and remove the locking mechanisms. (A very cheap and surprisingly easy option.)
4 - Duck tape over the lock on the knob so that it can't be turned. (You'll have to clean goo off the knob when the children are mature enough to stop locking the doors.)

If you permanently or semi-permanently disable the locks but still need a lock on certain doors, you can put a hook up high, out of the children's' reach. That's cheap, and leaves only tiny holes in the frame, easily erased with a dab of wood filler when you're ready to move.

For the doors in and out of the house, you can replace the thumbscrews with locks that require a key, and hang the key on a nail high up on the frame, so that you can easily find it, but it's not in his reach. If he's less likely to mess with those doors, then you could just leave them as they are. You can take him with you every time you step out, too.

You have to find a way to stop him by controlling his environment, when he cannot control himself. You hedge him in, so that his only choice is the behaviour you want.

[PurpleButterfly]

:nak2 I would look at food allergies (dye, sugar, etc.) and boredom factors. And do what you have to in order to remove items of destruction (nail polish, crayons, pens, etc.) from reach. :yes2

[Rabbit]

Oh, and when you paint, give him the opportunity to paint beside you, either on the walls or on something you designate, so that he isn't jealous of the activity that is taking up so much of your time. Give him appropriate outlets for his desire to make art. You can even paper over a portion of wall just for him, using butcher paper or heavy craft paper (sold in rolls and by the foot in stores that cater to teachers or at hobby lobby) and let him doodle to his heart's content, while you supervise. (Great time to fold clothes.) Remove the art tools when he's done but leave his art up for him. He can be done whenever you're done with sitting. Best to stop while he's still having fun anyway.

[Joanne]

What Natalie said.

And in addition, I'd increase the pattern, rhythm and structure to the day. I'd start a routine of hygiene, chores, food, deliberate and intentional activities, increased supervision.

I'd go to a thrift store and buy a variety of "non kid" items for creative play.

Spanking won't make him more mature.

[Zooey]

4 - Duck tape over the lock on the knob so that it can't be turned. (You'll have to clean goo off the knob when the children are mature enough to stop locking the doors.)
Or, put the tape over the other part of the lock...the part on the door frame.( I have actually removed that part.....Door still "locked", but it could be opened by a strong twist.) The mechanism still functions, but it is not really locked....just snapped into place & can be opened from the outside.

[FourCutieBugs]

These are great suggestions for at home, and i'll definitely do this.

AFA more structure- got it coming. We're beginning homeschooling in about a week, so we'll have structure and supervision upped quite alot. I admit I've been much more relaxed this summer.

I have a question about hedging him in so that he has no other choice. That's how I've always operated. I've never been in the tempt-the-child-and-then-spank-them camp. But situations always do arise when my kids find ways to do things which I was in no way prepared for. For example, recently we were visiting my BIl and SIL at their new house. I have 4 young children including a nursing baby. My husband was of course there. But we don't have our eyeballs on them all at all times in spite of how hard we try. Besides, that is sometimes impractical. We make frequent checks on our kids and we make sure everyone is aware of them as well. The 3 older ones were with their cousin in his bedroom looking at his new Wii. (Is that how it's spelled?) So I was going back periodically to check on them. Somehow in spite of this, my 4 year old decided to go into another room and lock himself in. This was when I became aware that I had failed to communicate the message that locking doors is unacceptable.

So my question is, can there be no consequences for things like this so that the child understands to some extent that they are wrong?

[Rabbit]

Yes. But they reflect and correct (or protect him) from the reason for his misbehaviour. The consequences are not used to make him think twice to stop him (like a spanking is used so that next time, because he doesn't want the spanking, he won't want to lock the door), but to teach him (I can't lock the door because it scares my mother, and I can get trapped, and because I'm told not to.) Though, if he can easily get the door unlocked, he's not exactly trapped. It's mostly your comfort level affected, so he isn't going to buy the argument that he's trapped or has trapped somebody. That doesn't mean you let him do it, just that your stated reasons are not making sense to him.

A suggestion for handling that event at SIL/BIL's house - if he did it a second time, after the explanation, and since you cannot rig their doors for your convenience, then your son can't play with his cousins out of your sight. He has to be in the room with you until he demonstrates the maturity or ability to exercise the amount of self control required to stop locking the doors. This puts him directly in your supervision, which keeps him out of trouble, and looks enough like punishment to satisfy your family, and save you from embarrassment. (The cousins should not be limited in playing with him, if they want to and can play quietly underfoot with the grown ups, or if you can all go outside.) If he continues to demonstrate the wrong behaviour, even right next to you, you take him home. They can assume that the consequences will get more dire in private.

[FourCutieBugs]

That's a good explanation, Natalie. I just don't think I've wrapped my mind around the paradigm shift between how I was raised, and consequently how I instinctually want to deal with things, and gentle discipline in spite of all the reading and discussing I've done. This has required a huge amount of self control for me to step back from these situations and do nothing in order to find the best solution.

But, how about the following possible scenario:
I step outside to get the mail, leaving the baby inside with the kids, (which I don't ever do, so maybe this is a dumb scenario, but for the sake of discussion...) and suppose he locks all the doors. If something were to happen to the baby for example or to any of the kids, then that would be horrible. Granted he always agrees to open door after some gentle coaxing, but I do want him to understand that he should not go into a room and lock himself in because if he does hurt himself, it's possible I won't be able to get to him. A very unlikely scenario, but it could happen.

And I *DO* remove my children from situations in which they cannot exercise self-control, etc. But are they learning not to repeat the behavior? Certainly, I want them to have noble and altruistic reasons for restraint, like knowing that it upsets mommy, etc. But I just haven't seen much of a response like that.

[Rabbit]

It is possibly a bit too much of a stretch to worry that much about something happening when he has locked the door, since he can and does unlock it. For -your- peace of mind, do something to prevent him from doing that, and take your keys with you every time you step out. As I've locked myself out of the apartment before, I take my keys with me. You can relax the rule entirely, and get a bunch of those little wrenches that fit inside the tiny hole in the knob and put one on the door frame above every door, so that if he does lock it, you can just unlock it. Unless, of course, these interior doors need keys, in which case you can just put the key up on the frame. Either way, he couldn't lock you out any more.

And I *DO* remove my children from situations in which they cannot exercise self-control, etc. But are they learning not to repeat the behavior? Certainly, I want them to have noble and altruistic reasons for restraint, like knowing that it upsets mommy, etc. But I just haven't seen much of a response like that.

Yes, he's learning. It takes years to learn self control and restraint. If you spanked his bottom, he wouldn't learn restraint. He'd learn fear, and then if he did lock the door again, he'd stop unlocking it when you asked, because he'd know you were on the other side, ready to hit him again. Or he might not lock the door again, but when he gets into a bigger problem, he'll want to hide it, rather than have you help him with it. You'd have a bigger problem than you do now.

He will know that you really mean it about the locks when you physically stop him from using them.

I did think of another way to stop him from locking the doors - use foam door blocks on the top of the door or use a folded washcloth draped over the top, near the hinge. The foam blocks are designed for children, so they keep the door from closing with plenty of space to prevent fingers from getting pinched. The washcloth will also keep the door from closing, but without so much of a gap. Then he can't shut the doors at all, but you or any other adult can remove the block, and shut the door.

[FourCutieBugs]

I see, so this is something we just have to "repeat for emphasis" as it were. Like they don't learn it until the hundredth time they hear it and do it? Yeah the whole hiding from mommy out of fear thing is why I am always very calm and kind about the door locking thing. Unfortunately, my not so calm sister-in-law went in and shouted at everyone that "No one locks doors in my house! No one!" That freaked me out when I heard it because I was in a nearby room nursing the baby and of course had no idea of what had transpired, and here she was doing something about it. Yes, it's her house, but it's my kid... argh, let ME be the mommy please. These people already think we're crazy. Fortunately I am on top of my kids enough to where the in-laws rarely have an opening to insert shouting and violence into their lives! LOL. Sometimes I feel like I'm ironically creating an environment for my in-laws in which they will also not have the opportunity to misbehave.

[Rabbit]

Like they don't learn it until the hundredth time they hear it and do it?

He won't have the maturity to resist the impulse without your physical help and frequent reminders for a long time.

[AdrienneQW]

You've gotten great advice - I just want to touch on the wall issue.

My son took his plastic screwdriver and bored holes in his bedroom wall, then scraped down with that violent motion you described so there were deep gouges in the plaster. We took his tools away, talked to him about the destruction and respecting the house, etc. He's a generally compliant child, so we thought it was handled.

Until he did it two more times.

That made me realize he had some kind of a need that wasn't being met. I was at a loss as to exactly what it might be, so I tried to recreate the scenario for him as closely as I could - bartered for a good-sized piece of drywall, put it outside against the garage, and let DS go at it with his tools. We made it clear that this belonged to him and he could destroy it all he wanted, but the house belongs to the family and he does not have the right to destroy family property.

I don't know what it was, but that was all it took! :shrug It's been almost a year now and he's never messed with his bedroom walls again.