I'm really struggling with *how*

[ShiriChayim]

I like so much of what I'm reading/studying/learning, but I'm having a very difficult time putting it into practice. I find that I'm now tending towards permissiveness which is really not OK. It doesn't help that I'm getting very strong reactions from my 3yo right now, or that both my husband and my mother seem to think I've gone off the deep end and I've read some random thing online and am now just blindly jumping on board. I can't separate my 3yo until he's ready to join us because he just comes right back out. Yesterday I spent the whole day taking him and his brother down from jumping on top of the table or trying to climb the refrigerator. :banghead I'm getting better at avoiding conflict and have become much more in tune to my boy's natural rhythms...but when there IS a problem I feel like I have no good response anymore. If I react with a warning then a time out (which is what I would have done before) then I feel like I'm mean, but I don't know what else to do that gets the message across with grace. I'm not being very specific here, and I can post specific situations where I've really felt lost if you need me to, but I feel like I can't do what I know to do, and I can't do anything else. Help?

[The Tickle Momster]

Specific situations do help. How you handle climbing on tables doesn't always translate easily into how to handle refusing to clean up. ;) Sounds like you did a good job keeping cool and holding to your boundary yesterday. Did you give them something they could climb? Outdoor playset, trip to the park,etc.

Instead of a warning, let them know what you DO want them doing, then help them get there.

Hang in there. The transition to gbd is slow and steady. Your doing great! Especially since you said you are in tune with your boys' natural rhythm. :tu That's a hard one for me.

[Aisling]

It always helps me to bounce specific questions off the mamas here...you may have an easier time of applying GBD to everyday life. :yes

:hug My husband was wary of GBD a couple of years ago, too, until he was able to see it played out in front of him for a while. :) And it does get lots easier to apply the longer you go at it! Don't be discouraged! :heart

[MarynMunchkins]

My first thought from reading your post is that they need more outside time with things to climb on. The pool is a great thing this time of year. :)

Feel free to ask specifics. When I first joined here, I started TONS of threads. ;)

[ShiriChayim]

Ok, first specific is the fact that my children destroy EVERYTHING! They tear pages out of books, they climb up everything, they have put holes in one couch so stuffing keeps coming out, and put a hole in the place under the cushions (and we keep losing toys down there, because the frame is open, but there's more fabric underneath the couch, we also lost a sippy cup with milk down there, found it when it started smelling :sick ) they get into the DVD's and either scratch them up, or throw them down the heating vents. They've torn the blinds, they've torn apart boxes for videos, and boxes we keep things in, toys get either destroyed or prove that they're strong enough and well built pretty quickly.

I think I'm gonna give the kids nick-names and put them into my signature like others do here, I think that will be easier.

[mamaKristin]

the biggest thing that helps is babyproofing and creating a safe play area for little ones. They destroy dvds? Then dvds have to be moved out of reach. Books get ripped? only board books are accessible without parental supervision, and when you do use non-board books, modeling proper book use "gentle hands with pages" is key. Climbing on tables? You can remove their ability to climb by removing the chairs, or by using bungee cords to keep the chairs tied to the table.

I've found that when my kids are able to play in a space with more "yeses" than "nos", that's half the issue right there. When our oldest was small, we had a low bookshelf filled with cds and videos. He was ALWAYS pulling them out, making a mess, and it made DH and I crazy. Then one day, I realized "hey, if I put these behind doors, we won't have this issue anymore!" :doh

My house isn't large, but we do have a more active play area with a trampoline and mini-slide for them to climb and jump on. A small tunnel that collapses is really helpful too, especially when we are house bound for SO much of the winter. Reorganizing our furniture helped a lot. It may not be magazine cover ready as a result, but it sure helps with a lot of headaches.

[The Tickle Momster]

Wow! I can relate. We call my ds "dr. destructo". My first thought is to tell your that your standard of living is about to go up, as in move anything you value up. High. Dvds, Books, etc. When we went through that stage, I only had board books available for the kids, unless I was reading a special book with paper pages. If you can't go up (my high spots are almost full) you can declutter, or get some bins with lids that the kids can't open.

We've got torn blinds too. :hug2 Never occured to me that they could be torn. For the time being, they are held together with a binder clip. It stinks but works. :shrug No idea how to prevent that, except maybe to keep them up all the time.

Think prevention until teaching is possible and able to sink in. This may take months.

What are they using to put holes in the couch? Can you put those up too?

This is going to take lots of work on your and your dh's part. It will get better. Keep redirecting when they climb. I don't know your home/yard situation so take this as a well-meaning idea. Get them outside to climb. Go to the park. When they climb in the house tell them, we climb at the park, not in the house. We'll go to the park this afternoon so you can climb. Or something to that effect.

Ok, that's a start. I'm sure some other wiser mommas will be along with more ideas. Those are the ones that jump out at me. Decluttering is a huge thing for me. Still working on it. It's getting better. You can do this!

note: mamaKristin posted while I typed. not sure if we double up on stuff. :)

[onehappymama]

You know permissive parenting is not the best but I personally feel it is a step up from punitive parenting, ya know? Just don't beat yourself up for not being perfect at this yet. I think most of us have done the pendulum swing from spanking/yelling to permissive/doormat *LOL* and then balancing out at grace based, firm and loving. You will get there!

I'm actually having to re-learn some stuff with my 4 year old that I had forgotten how to do since my 15 yr old was that age! *LOL* I'm so glad I found GCM!

Just keep reminding yourself that this is a work in progress and let your hubby and mom and whoever else know, that you are doing a new thing and it will take time to get it right, but it will be worth it. If that doesn't work there's always:

:beandip2 (heh-heh)

For a little glimpse of what the future will hold when you get past the hard stuff read about my relationship with my 15 year old now in this thread:

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=127393.0

And remember Phil 3:12-14

"Not that I have already obtained all this,
or have already been made perfect,
but I press on to take hold of that
for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Brethren I do not consider myself yet to
have taken hold of it. But one thing I do:
Forgetting what is behind and straining toward
what is ahead, I press on toward the goal
to win the prize for which God has
called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."


I will pray for God to give you patience and grace and wisdom as you press on. :) :heart

[klpmommy]

P likes to destroy stuff, too. One thing I have realized is that when he is being destructive it often means that he has too much big energy & doesn't have a good way to get it out. So we go outside or we play chase in our house or we play a variation of "simon says" where he has to do tons of big movements (jumping, spinning around, etc). Also sometimes it is b/c he wants my attention but I have been busy & putting him off so he does something that works to get my attention. :blush Sometimes it is b/c he is bored so we move to something else (get out of the house to go shopping, go to the park, play a game together, etc). Sometimes finding something he *can* destroy helps, too- an old box, bubble wrap, a magazine & scissors (although since you are having problems with books I wouldn't do that if I were you).


I can't separate my 3yo until he's ready to join us because he just comes right back out.

Both of my kids are like that, too. Which is why I do "time in" instead of "time out". If P ('cause it is usually P ;) ) is not able to control himself, follow directions, be safe, etc, but I don't want E to miss out on something or we just got to the park & I don't want to leave already or I *know* he needs to get energy out & be outside- anyway, I hold him next to me. If he is cooperative enough he can just sit next to me with one arm around him until he is ready (this would be more of when he is repeatedly being unsafe but not out of control). If he is not cooperative I bear hug him with his back to my stomach (getting harder right now!) & I whisper in his ear gently until he is calm. As soon as he is calm he can go back & play again. Not all kids respond well to a bear hug, but it works great with mine.

[ShiriChayim]

Well, the childproofing is a big part problem. We live in a tiny two bedroom appartment, with just the bedrooms, a kitchen (crammed with our table, and all dangerous stuff on top of the refrigerator) and a living room. I just don't know where or how to put things to childproof them more. We keep putting more things away to store them so they're kept safe, but the dvd's and videos got moved to our bedroom to keep them safe, only the boy's broke the child safety lock and got in and threw them all over. As we can afford to I try to get creative with boxes and stuff, but we have no place to put them. I do work on it a little more as I can, but I'm not exactly creative, so I'm sure other moms could come in and whip things into shape with a few quick and easy projects, but I'm lost with this stuff.

Ok, next question...going out. My 3yo makes it almost a nightmare. We need to go out regularly to get out of the tiny appartment, but going to a store can be a nightmare. I have a harness that I use with him, and things are getting better, until we get to the checkout, when he once again climbs on things, gets into things, I have such a hard time getting him to stay put and safe while checking out. We do go to parks as often as possible, and he does well with it, unless there's other kids there. Once there are other children, things stop being ok, and he's running away, having a meltdown, etc...

[ArmsOfLove]

have you sat him down and explained to him exactly what to expect and what you expect from him? Then you can remind him in the store. Set it up so that if he doesn't comply you leave right away and go home--and plan a few practice runs expecting to do that. Set it up also so that if you have a successful store stop he can have some time at a park or somewhere he can get that monkey energy out :tu

[canadiyank]

It's also helpful, as you're instituting the "I expect x and y and we'll leave if not" idea, to go to the store when you don't *really* need to, so you're not stressed out of your mind if you must leave. Practice runs, if you like. They'll learn you mean business but you won't be sacrificing your essential shopping trip.

[canadiyank]

Also, Positive Discipline from A-Z (http://www.amazon.com/Positive-Discipline-Z-Solutions-Parenting/dp/0307345572/ref=sr_1_1/102-2516218-5262525?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186378552&sr=8-1) is a helpful resource for "hand on" ideas.

[ShiriChayim]

Next Question: (y'all are going to get so tired of me ;))

How do you handle when it gets to the end of the day, and the kids just go from one thing to the next to the next getting into things they know they're not supposed to. I'll admit it's considerably worse on days my husband is home. Yesterday he was home alone with the boys twice because I had an appointment and a ministry meeting. By the end of the day he was yelling and angry and kept saying, "they know better!!!" The truth is not matter what we do to engage them otherwise, no matter how many times we say no, and redirect, they continually go directly back to what we've just pulled them out of. Especially at the end of the day.

[Teribear]

You realize that at three and nearly two...they're little scientists and explorers, they have little to no impulse control and they WILL do exactly what you're describing particularly if they're Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, Embarrassed or Distressed/Depressed (HALTED is the acronym we use around here) and at the end of the day they're usually two for six. Ideally you'll be able to structure you day in such a way as to minimize that since you know it is a pattern. Engaging them in "helping" you make dinner for example or putting them in their high chairs/booster seats with a snack or their own while you make dinner so they're confined and having their hunger dealt with. And honestly...I wouldn't make appointments or attend meetings during "The witching hours"...it sets everyone up for failure because you've got three little ones that are still in the prime ages for separation anxiety as well. Making them likely four for six in those situations.

Whatever you do at this age you're going to have to do a thousand times over before they MATURE enough to comply consistently. Even when they "know better". I know it doesn't seem that way, especially with three of them, but what you have on your hands at the moment are three BABIES. They are SO very young. Think about being dropped into an alien culture where you don't speak the language and are expected to totally adapt to their social customs...how much progress would you make in just 3 years? We expect SO much from such tiny people new from God.

[canadiyank]

It helps me to think that I'm *expecting* that kind of behaviour at that time of day. So, what are some solutions to that? A special activity planned for that time? Time outside then? Connect with a daddy-read story? Basically, plan for it, head it off before it starts, and engage them in something else planned ahead of time.