As a child, were you punitively parented?

[Elora]

This may be a loaded question, but how did it affect you and what aspect of it made you want the opposite for your dc?

[Rabbit]

That is indeed a loaded question, for a very public board.

[illinoismommy]

Well.... I can talk about it. My parents were divorced when I was 4 and so I got to experience both punitive and not which is sort of an interesting perspective.... my mom was really punitive and my dad was not.... I am not close to my mom but I am close to my dad. Um, I will be back later for this, baby has needs :mrgreen

[Elora]

Thank you :heart

[kwisie]

Dooood. I just realized that I shared way too much on a public thread. Not comfy with that. Deleted!

[Elora]

The biggest effects I've seen are a inability to directly question authority figures and an inability to clearly express my thoughts/feelings on issues, since that wasn't allowed Wow thank you for that. This is a good observation - and I think I have similar troubles.

Oh, and the abuse that happened when I was little - the adult in that situation said not to tell anyone, so I didn't. :hug2

[NoodleMom]

hmm....lots to say on this subject. Public board has me a bit anxious about it tho.

I will say tho that I was never disciplined but punished to the extreme. I chose to parent differently so as to allow my children a voice and to actually have a relationship with them.

[Herbwifemama]

When I was little, my dad said he was going to spank me for something- I wasn't sure if he was joking or not, so I was kind of laugh crying- I didn't know how to react. My parents thought I was fake crying- and from then on, if I was crying or upset about something, they'd say, "Oh, what an actor!", and I'd scream, "I"M NOT ACTING!" They spanked me when I was younger with switches, wooden spoons, belts, hands. And when I was older- around 9 or 10, they'd ground me instead. Around that same time, I guess someone said something to them about me being "disrespectful", and all I heard was "respect, respect, respect". I honestly still have a very fuzzy concept of what respect is, and a very strong negative response to the word. I remember shouting at them one time, "How can I learn respect when you aren't respectful to me!" I honestly wasn't sure if I deserved respect. After a while, I stopped receiving any punishments whatsoever. I believe the last time I was grounded was sometime before I was 11. Typing that all up, I feel a lot of hurt come up, but I know my parents were trying their best. I have a good relationship with both my parents, and I have no doubt of their love for me. And I know they have parent guilt about some of the things they did.

The way my parents directly influenced my parenting was less about how punitive they were- my mother breastfed me til I self weaned at two. We never coslept, despite what I see as an adult as something that I needed as a child- which is why I"m making sure we sleep with our kids til they leave of their own accord. (Dd sleeps on a crib mattress part of the night, but she's right beside us, and comes into bed with us when she wakes up.) My mom says she never did CIO with us.

But as far as punishment goes, I learned about gentle discipline from reading AP boards, and it wasn't so much that I DIDN"T want to be like my parents, but that I recognized from my reading that it was ineffective, didn't teach the things I wanted to teach (no intrinsic motivation for example), and didn't foster the kind of relationship I wanted to have with my kids.

A lot of people say AP came instinctively to them. It never would have come instinctively to me. I may have breastfed and responded to some cries (I'm not sure I would have done CIO), but I never would have coslept or babyworn, and I would prolly have used spanking and grounding, because I didn't know any better. Thank the Lord for internet message boards!

[Elora]

hmm....lots to say on this subject. Public board has me a bit anxious about it tho.

I will say tho that I was never disciplined but punished to the extreme. I chose to parent differently so as to allow my children a voice and to actually have a relationship with them.
Understood. Thank you :hug

[wombmate3]

I don't really have an issue talking about it here, although I can think of reasons others might.

I was raised by my mom until I was about 6 and then my step-dad and mom until I left home (ran, screaming) at 17. The term "control freak" doesn't even begin to describe my step-dad. He used manipulation, humiliation, scolding, screaming, spanking, smacking, and sometimes real violence to keep us 'in line' and under his thumb. We never knew what punishment was coming and sometimes it was rather severe. The older and more womanly I got the worse he got. I wonder if it is because he was raised in a household that hates everything but white men?

I can remember once when he told me (on vacation, in the New Orleans heat and humidity after a day of walking all over creation and no food), "Smile. SMILE! Put a smile on your face or I will slap one on you!" When I started to giggle hysterically over the sheer foolishness of that statement he slapped me, in public, in my face. He has called me names, tripped me, slapped me, hit me, spanked me on my bare bottom at an age I was old enough to be embarrassed, choked me....on and on.

I began this parenting thing 5 years ago and realized with horror that I was going to have to work hard to not re-live it on my own children. My greatest desire was not to visit that on them, but I found it was harder than just not wanting to. All the skills I had learned were those that were used on me. I had to deprogram punitive and reprogram GBD. I still fail miserably all the time. I have finally had to give myself grace and realize that if I even do HALF to them what was done to me I have made great strides in breaking the cycle. My brother is not so lucky and his son pays the price. :cry

[Elora]

it wasn't so much that I DIDN"T want to be like my parents, but that I recognized from my reading that it was ineffective, didn't teach the things I wanted to teach (no intrinsic motivation for example), and didn't foster the kind of relationship I wanted to have with my kids. very interesting - that is something I hadn't considered - thank you for sharing this

Thank the Lord for internet message boards!
:amen

[Elora]

wombmate (((HUGS)))) thank you for sharing :hug2 :heart

[illinoismommy]

Gee I don't know how to sum this up. My mom was punitive, she used spanking, threats, etc. I was a spirited child. I remember not wanting to go to bed at 5 years old and trying to stay up all night in my bed (yeah that didn't work...) even though she had locked me in my room :hunh . Anyhow, we didn't develop much of a relationship... even at 5 I remember being detached from her and fighting with her (adversarial) a lot and finally asking to live with my dad. Then I lived with my dad from then until I was an adult except for one equally disasterous year when I was 11. My dad was the opposite, he wasn't overly anal about every little thing and set the important boundaries and expected me to follow them, which I did. I was not totally smothered with an unreasonable amount of unimportant rules, if that makes sense, and I think that's especially important for a spirited child. He built a relationship with me and I have a lot of great memories about fun things we did. I don't recall even once fighting with him about bedtime, either, and I think it was all about the approach.

[Elora]

that makes perfect sense :yes

[stbmomof1plus2]

I posted this somewhere else on the boards, but I was punitively parented. As a teenager I was raped and I never told my mom (or the police or anyone). The main reason is because I thought my mom would just get mad and blame me for not being where I was supposed to be. I didn't think I would give love and support, just judgement, humiliation, and maybe even more abuse.
I can't imagine my children suffering in silence the way I did.

[Dana Joy]

:no
i was raised pretty close to the way i am raising my chidlren

[MrsHutch]

Oh, I want to come back to this.

[kwisie]

...I have made great strides in breaking the cycle. My brother is not so lucky and his son pays the price. :cry

Too much info for a public board. Silly me. I once was a little free with my info. Deleted.

[booboo]

This is too public a board to go into all of it, but yeah I was abused. I'm not in contact with my parents or siblings to this day though it took me a long time after getting married to disconnect, once Rabbit was born. It was the right thing.

I'm still learning how not to be punitive to my children today and it's very hard. I'm so glad to have found this board (don't think the sweet woman who recommended this to me is still here) and am very thankful. It's very hard when it's all you knew the first 20 or so years of your life. :yes2

[MrsHutch]

I was a very "strong-willed" child, and according to my mom, hard spankings were the only way to get me to listen. :rolleyes She almost always spanked (or slapped) in anger, and I was constantly afraid of any sudden movements from her.

But I have a great relationship with my parents now, my mom is one of my best friends. :heart My mom feels bad and has apologized for many of her parenting choices, but in her defense she was just doing the best she knew how with an emotionally distant husband, a full-time job (and usually 12-hour swing shifts when I was young), a house to clean, and a "strong-willed" child. :shrug I don't hold it against her.

It's taken me a long time to understand that good decisions should be made because they honor God, not because you are afraid of getting caught in a bad decision. That is one of the biggest things that drew me to GBD. I never developed a moral compass for myself because for a long time I based every decision on, "will my mom kill me (not literally, but YKWIM) if she finds out about this?" and "what will other people think about me if they find out?" I want my children to make good decisions because they are good and right and pleasing to the Father, not because they are afraid of getting caught.

[malakoa]

My mom used guilt and played on my fear of abandonment. I was also constantly criticized for my freckles, my teeth, my moles, my acne, you get the picture.

There was no way Small was going to go through that.

[Beth1231]

Yes, I was punitively parented. But I can say that most of what occured was not with a mean-spirit or with the intention to get back at me for whatever I did. Most of it was misguided Dobson-influenced efforts to be good parents. They simply did not know about anything else. At the age of 12, spankings stopped and my relationship with my Dad grew tremendously. When I was 19, my relationship with my mother followed suit (she took a lot longer to let me fly from the nest). Anyway, our first baby is due in sixish weeks and I'm so happy to say that my husband and I have both learned a lot from these boards, from watching AP parents and I also teach in a very grace-based preschool. I'm blessed to have so many great examples to help me learn to rethink the punitive mindset.

[KitKat]

I ended up with anger issues that landed me into anger management. I had such a fear in me, that at basic training for the army, the DS was shocked at how I reacted to him. He came at me, like they do, and I hit the ground in a sob and wouldn't move until he moved away from me. I had trouble trusting anyone which led me to go from relationship to relationship. I so wanted to please me that I slept with them even if I didn't really like them. I learned to lie like a pro to avoid punishment. I still have trouble respecting my mother (my father and I reconciled before he passed away).

How do I want it different for my children?

I want them to learn how to express their anger properly. I want them to live without fear of their own parents. I want them to trust themselves enough to trust others in their life. I want them to be honest, even if they make mistakes. I want them to have a healthy respect for authority, without feeling the need to never question what they are told.

[Learnin'2B]

I was punitively parented, and it really is the only way my mother knew. She had a hard time growing up and a bad relationship with her parents, so I understand where it comes from, and I forgive her for it.

I can echo the thoughts/feelings of some of the other mama's who have posted. I was raped as a child. I never told, and repressed it. The symptoms came out in all sorts of ways though, and all the while I was unable to talk to anyone about it b/c I had also been taught to listen only and obey, so expressing my feelings still comes hard for me and is something I work on. I was also afraid: to express myself, what people would think of me, if they would still love me.....

I never have been close to my mother. She never allowed me to share myself with her, unless it was the good things. It was always, "please don't cry. Please don't feel that. It hurts me so much to hear you say that", etc. So when life was really really bad for me after I turned away from God (who I also thought only wanted "good" things from me and loved me if I was "good" and I who I also thought had planned a life of pain and suffering for me) and life got really, really bad for me, my mother and I were estranged for years b/c I had nothing "good" to say. Our conversations were brief and "I'm fine.". :shrug She just couldn't handle my pain, and I still don't think she can. I may be wrong on that, but it's how our relationship has always been. And really thinking on it, one of my older sisters was raped by one of my mother's husbands and she did blame my sister for it. So who knows how it could have turned out if I had told her. It could have really done something horrible in me had she done that same thing to me, on top of what already was done.

Now, God has done some wondeful things toward healing our relationship, but it's still not how I would think a mother and daughter should/could be. I still can't lean on her for support. Maybe, along with forgiving her, I just have more "good" things to say now? :shrug

I also have never gone with authority easily. When I was younger it was probably just defiance for the sake of it, and now that I'm older I think it's only tough for me to submit to someone who I don't think deserves it. (A.K.A an idiot but my boss none the less) I think, PTL!, I've come to the point where I can by choice, not reflex, submit to authority that is well placed, if that makes any sense.

This whole concept of GBD is new to me, and I struggle with it all the time, so it really surprises me anytime someone says, "You are such a good mother" or "Help me with my child" but even so I know I've come a long way from the mindset I had before. I have a sense in my mind of where we are headed and I have to try constantly not to beat myself up with my mistakes and let it ruin my day: to just brush it off, ask forgiveness and move on.

I know for me, anger has always been an issue. It was not allowed, and so it got stuck farther down in me to stew, and I still struggle with old anger coming out that is misplaced. I do think that's from punitive parenting. Anger was absolutely unacceptable as an emotion, and I was slapped a few times, but mostly cut off and sent away anytime I had that come up. Physical discipline, or taking things away, or sent away was the only forms of discipline I knew.

And God bless my mother, she really did try to talk with me a couple of times as I got older, but I was already so shut down and detached and afraid that I literally *could not* say what I wanted to say. The words hung like a knot in my throat.

I kinda feel the same as the mama who said if she could NOT do half of what was done to her, it would still be good to break the cycle. I just have to work on not beating myself up for the bits that still come out all wrong. At least I have a God-given man who, even in our difficulties and faults, I really do think will NEVER rape a child. That's a start. I'm also very grateful that I realized when my daughter was just 13 or 14 months old that it was NOT working, and sought out a better way.

And I can just Ditto KitKat for what I want differently for my children, along with her knowing God will love her no matter what.

[ReedleBeetle]

I was punitively parented. I used to think I was "just" spanked. Now I see it was more than that. I got my last spanking when I was SEVENTEEN. It was one of only a few as a teen. I have really struggled with my relationship with my parents, but it is finally getting better and better. I am pretty close to my mom now, but I don't think she knows that we are not spanking. She does NOT punish any of her grandchildren, so I am not worried about her (or my dad really) punishing our kids. Not like I am my MIL! Anyway, I don't want to go further on a public board.

[joyful mama]

That is indeed a loaded question, for a very public board.
yes. if this was taken to a more private board i'd share.

[Elora]

It's taken me a long time to understand that good decisions should be made because they honor God, not because you are afraid of getting caught in a bad decision. That is one of the biggest things that drew me to GBD. I never developed a moral compass for myself because for a long time I based every decision on, "will my mom kill me (not literally, but YKWIM) if she finds out about this?" and "what will other people think about me if they find out?" I want my children to make good decisions because they are good and right and pleasing to the Father, not because they are afraid of getting caught.
love this :heart

[asher]

I was punitively parented up until even after I left for college. I know for my parents, they knew no other way. My mom has acknowledged this and has apologized for it. I am very close to both of my parents through God working in completely amazing ways. I also have issues with authority and expressing my opinions.


I began this parenting thing 5 years ago and realized with horror that I was going to have to work hard to not re-live it on my own children. My greatest desire was not to visit that on them, but I found it was harder than just not wanting to. All the skills I had learned were those that were used on me. I had to deprogram punitive and reprogram GBD. I still fail miserably all the time. I have finally had to give myself grace and realize that if I even do HALF to them what was done to me I have made great strides in breaking the cycle.

I completely agree with this statement! :hug2

[NovelMama]

I was spanked as a last resort, and it didn't happen often. In fact, I can't remember being spanked, though I know I was. I remember being grounded a lot more. And I remember my brother getting spanked; I always tried to defend him when he was going to get spanked; I was/am a very empathetic person and couldn't/can't bear to see someone hurt. But it never affected my relationship with my parents. We're very close. I never thought of spanking as being anything but a consequence, the possiblity of which I was very aware, so I never felt like it was unfair that I was getting spanked or anything. The reason I'm choosing not to is because now, as an adult, I am opposed to it on principle and realize disciplining, rather than punishing, is the way to go. Growing up, though, that's what all the families I knew did, so I never thought twice about it.

[Auntnina]

Thanks for posting this. It has also been on my mind a bit lately. I'll think about what I want to say and come back when I have more time!

[Katherine]

:popcorn

coming back later...

[GrowingInGrace]

But even though it's a public board, in a sense, maybe it's okay, because there may be some readers who may be still leaning toward punitive measures can see that punitive discipline has LONG lasting and painful implications. Maybe it would help others find this a great reason to leave punitive parenting behind, when they can see the almost permanent damage that is done.

to everyone posting, and those who find it too painful to tell their stories :hugheart

[Rabbit]

Most people leaning towards punitive discipline were punitively discplined as children, so they are aware of the results already. They think it's fine, so long as it doesn't become abuse. After all, they turned out alright. So we are either weak-willed pansies, or abused children grown up to be broken adults.

Sad stories don't convince people to discipline gently, unless the story is their own.

[stbmomof1plus2]

Most people leaning towards punitive discipline were punitively discplined as children, so they are aware of the results already. They think it's fine, so long as it doesn't become abuse. After all, they turned out alright. So we are either weak-willed pansies, or abused children grown up to be broken adults.

Sad stories don't convince people to discipline gently, unless the story is their own.


I have to agree - but most people forget about something called Resilience. Even children that have endured horrible situations can turn out "okay". The other thing people forget is the road they had to walk. When people talk about how well I turned out inspite of my circumstances (growning up in the inner city, single parent home, etc., etc.) I have to tell them about how many hours I had to spend at the alter (literally) weeping and crying out to God. I have to tell them about how I had to learn so much as an adult that would have been much better taught as a child (like how to love and be loved). I have to tell them about all the hills I had to climb as a result of so many things. I have to remind them that God is the Great Redeemer, so don't judge who I am today by where I came from and ignore the work God has done and continues to do.

The other thing is many people "think" they turned out okay - I will take my family for instance. We all "think" we came out okay - but everyone in my family (except for me and dh of course) think it is OKAY to Spank (with a belt, hand, stick, etc.) a child under the age of one :jawdrop
My mom recently spanked my cousins child that was less than a year old. She spanked her because the baby found an open beer can on the table and drank from it. My mom replied "she has to learn that is not okay". I asked "wow, when did she learn to read"? But, my family thought it was fine what my mother did and they also think they turned out "okay".

[Learnin'2B]

Most people leaning towards punitive discipline were punitively discplined as children, so they are aware of the results already. They think it's fine, so long as it doesn't become abuse. After all, they turned out alright. So we are either weak-willed pansies, or abused children grown up to be broken adults.

Sad stories don't convince people to discipline gently, unless the story is their own.


I have to agree - but most people forget about something called Resilience. Even children that have endured horrible situations can turn out "okay". The other thing people forget is the road they had to walk. When people talk about how well I turned out inspite of my circumstances (growning up in the inner city, single parent home, etc., etc.) I have to tell them about how many hours I had to spend at the alter (literally) weeping and crying out to God. I have to tell them about how I had to learn so much as an adult that would have been much better taught as a child (like how to love and be loved). I have to tell them about all the hills I had to climb as a result of so many things. I have to remind them that God is the Great Redeemer, so don't judge who I am today by where I came from and ignore the work God has done and continues to do.

The other thing is many people "think" they turned out okay - I will take my family for instance. We all "think" we came out okay - but everyone in my family (except for me and dh of course) think it is OKAY to Spank (with a belt, hand, stick, etc.) a child under the age of one :jawdrop
My mom recently spanked my cousins child that was less than a year old. She spanked her because the baby found an open beer can on the table and drank from it. My mom replied "she has to learn that is not okay". I asked "wow, when did she learn to read"? But, my family thought it was fine what my mother did and they also think they turned out "okay".


:yes I kinda think "resilience" is just another way of not giving credit where credit is due--to God.

[GrowingInGrace]

Just so you know, I did say, "maybe it would help to read others stories." I didn't grow up physically abused, but there was a lot of emotional control and belittling going on in my family history. I know I struggle in parenting greatly. I tend to lose control verbally with my children and sometimes resort to spanking in my worst moments. What I'm saying is that it is helpful to realize that even though I'm sorry for screwing up from time to time, I still need to work harder to curb those negative impulses when the kids are swinging on my last nerve. Because even though I apologize for messing up (a lot), I need to know that I'm still having a bad effect when I resort to those terrible things.

Who knows, maybe my sensitive 3.5 year old won't remember the times I was good to her, she'll just remember the times I raged at her or spanked her 20 years from now.

I thought maybe there might be people who come across this board who might benefit from other's stories or help come to terms with their own because there are others like them.

So yes, even though I want to be gentle, I have punitive undercurrents in my discipline. I don't want them there, they just come out when I'm at my weakest and can't take another minute of the chaos. And it's usually after having a string of bad days where the 3.5 yo is melting down all the time or the 2 yo is screaming for no reason. I can only take so much of that.

So, what I mean, is that it helps people like me, who fall into a trap of punitive measures - I don't lean towards punitive measures, but I do fall into them because I have a lot of growing to do still.

Or maybe if someone was one who simply listened to the wrong people or read the wrong information and use punitive measures because they don't realize the long term consequences. I think some of these people would benefit from hearing stories such as these.

I guess I didn't have a bleak outlook when I first posted. I just thought maybe some good would come out from reading other people's stories, and not make any mom's here feel like they shouldn't have posted in a public forum. I mean, wouldn't we be happy if we could reach out to some mom who is lurking on the boards, reading this and maybe thinking twice about the next time she yells/spanks/insults her children - that there is long lasting effects on there children? I'm assuming those die hard punitive moms wouldn't visit these boards anyway, so with them it's a non-issue.

[Auntnina]

But I can say that most of what occured was not with a mean-spirit or with the intention to get back at me for whatever I did. Most of it was misguided Dobson-influenced efforts to be good parents. They simply did not know about anything else.


Several have commented that their parents’ know no other way, and this is how I’ve come to see the choices of my parents. Particularly due to their immersion in the 1970’s Southern Baptist culture and Dobsonian teachings of their parenting circles, it seemed like the only, and unquestionable, option. In one of our early conversations about parenting and GBD my sister noted that they would have “been run out of town on a rail” had they questioned the status quo. That was a key thought for me, and helped me along in my (continuing) journey to come to terms with my past, heal the wounds remaining, and create more healthy thought processes.

But to address your questions, How did it affect me? In my mid-30s I am still working very hard on personal concepts/skills that could have been grasped years ago. It’s about learning some things and unlearning other things. Basics like boundaries in personal relationships, self-motivation, and allowing myself to experience emotions deemed ‘wrong.’ And although God has been very gracious, I still feel my relationship with Him is negatively impacted b/c of the link between how we are parented and how it shapes our concept of God. Those old self-defeating scripts I hold in my mind of guilt, self-recrimination, and unworthiness are difficult to full expunge.


How do I want it different for my children?

I want them to learn how to express their anger properly. I want them to live without fear of their own parents. I want them to trust themselves enough to trust others in their life. I want them to be honest, even if they make mistakes. I want them to have a healthy respect for authority, without feeling the need to never question what they are told.



:clap Totally agree with this. And as an Aunt, I am already SO hugely relieved to see my oldest nephew, who is reminiscent of me in some ways, parented gently. It is a joy to see his unique energy and temperment accepted and celebrated instead of treated as a constant source of irritation, or something that needs to be broken. :yes2

[Linnis]

My parented yelled a lot and my mum was a hitter. I married a man who doesn't yell and am working to deal with my anger better than my parents did.

When you know better you do better. I don't want to have my son be afraid and nervous like I was.

[Elora]

I mean, wouldn't we be happy if we could reach out to some mom who is lurking on the boards, reading this and maybe thinking twice about the next time she yells/spanks/insults her children - that there is long lasting effects on there children?


Thank you GrowingInGrace, yes. In fact stories like these (posted elsewhere I lurk) are what even made me question punitive parenting to begin with. I was punitively parented, it had no negative effects on me that I'm aware. It had never even crossed my mind before that spanking would do long term damage to anyone, or that there was anything wrong with it - especially not to *this* extent.

Anyone who doesn't feel comfortable sharing on a public board surely doesn't have to :shrug But yeah, it does make a difference to some people, I know firsthand. So thank you :hug

And thanks to everyone for sharing their pov...it truly is appreciated :heart

[Elora]

Several have commented that their parents’ know no other way, and this is how I’ve come to see the choices of my parents. Particularly due to their immersion in the 1970’s Southern Baptist culture and Dobsonian teachings of their parenting circles, it seemed like the only, and unquestionable, option. In one of our early conversations about parenting and GBD my sister noted that they would have “been run out of town on a rail” had they questioned the status quo.
:yes Same here

[Elora]

So we are either weak-willed pansies, or abused children grown up to be broken adults.

Sad stories don't convince people to discipline gently, unless the story is their own.


Just to be clear though, even when I didn't know anything but punitive, NEVER EVER thought that people who did not parent punitively were weak-willed pansies, or assumed they were abused children/broken adults. I was pretty shocked at some of the things I read elsewhere and here. I know I have a different mindset than most of the women here in that I am a little callous I guess because I honestly don't care how other people choose to feed/discipline/parent their children. I basically want people to stay out of my parenting choices and afford them the same respect.

And my own sad story isn't what convinces me to discipline gently. I feel that it's what God wanted for me and my family...and for me that's enough.

[GrowingInGrace]

I mean, wouldn't we be happy if we could reach out to some mom who is lurking on the boards, reading this and maybe thinking twice about the next time she yells/spanks/insults her children - that there is long lasting effects on there children?


Thank you GrowingInGrace, yes. In fact stories like these (posted elsewhere I lurk) are what even made me question punitive parenting to begin with. I was punitively parented, it had no negative effects on me that I'm aware. It had never even crossed my mind before that spanking would do long term damage to anyone, or that there was anything wrong with it - especially not to *this* extent.

Anyone who doesn't feel comfortable sharing on a public board surely doesn't have to :shrug But yeah, it does make a difference to some people, I know firsthand. So thank you :hug

And thanks to everyone for sharing their pov...it truly is appreciated :heart


Yeah, that's in fact how I came to find out about GCM. I was on a different Christian board initiallly where punitive parenting was the norm and didn't really understand how icky some of the things were at first. I got suggestion after suggestion about bad parenting sources (in the form of TTUAC and SACH and such) that I actually started to look into, until one or two lone voices told me that there was a better way. It does help to know that we mothers/parents do affect our children in ways we can't immediately see. I was so glad to have been directed here to GCM, that is for sure.

If no one else cared how I parented, then I wouldn't have been directed here and probably been on my way to punitive parenting because I was a bit ignorant of what healthy child-rearing looked like.

[3PeasInAPod]

And my own sad story isn't what convinces me to discipline gently. I feel that it's what God wanted for me and my family...and for me that's enough.


I feel the same way.

[illinoismommy]

I'm chiming in to say me too. I think in keeping everything out of the public eye a grave mistake is made. I almost didn't register here because of the content in the public eye

[Soliloquy]

I was punished as a child but in a bizarre way. My mom struggled with what to do and her emotional well-being from one day to the next determined whether I was hit, yelled at, screamed at, or whether she just giggled and moved on. There were never clear rules or boundaries and I desperately wanted them.

My mom wanted control but didn't know what to do. She did not see me as my own person but as an extension of herself and her image. She cared more about what others thought of her as a mother than what I thought of her. She would deny that because I don't think she's aware of how much she is affected by peer pressure.

I learned at a very young age that my mom was in the "need to know" category. I only told her what she absolutely needed to know so that I could get what I needed/wanted. I learned very early not to open up to her, not to trust her. She stopped hitting me when I was very young but she was so caught up in what others thought, like I wrote earlier, that she couldn't allow me to make mistakes and learn from them. After all, what would people think if her daughter did XYZ? Bottom line is I did XYZ anyway--she just didn't know about it.

I decided that if my kids were going to go XZY I'd rather know about it because they knew they could trust me. That way I can pray for them. I can't pray for my kids effectively if I don't know them. But, since finding AP and GBD I"ve learned that it is possible for children and parents to have loving, trusting relationships. I have AP friends of teens where their teens actually TALK to their parents about what's on their hearts. NO ONE that I knew grewing up did that. Parents were the ones to fool, to keep in the dark.

I struggle with anger and I am still angry at my mom for some of the things she did to me, mainly the total lack of respect. She has never apologized and I know she doesn't think she did anything wrong.

The good thing is that she does think I'm a wonderful mother. She's told me so and she's asked if I could recommend some info for a friend of hers who's daughter is a punitive parent. That made me feel really good.

[COTK]

But as far as punishment goes, I learned about gentle discipline from reading AP boards, and it wasn't so much that I DIDN"T want to be like my parents, but that I recognized from my reading that it was ineffective, didn't teach the things I wanted to teach (no intrinsic motivation for example), and didn't foster the kind of relationship I wanted to have with my kids.

Thank the Lord for internet message boards!


Truly, this is the EXACT same for me. I was spanked a few times as a child. I'm not really aware of any effects now. Honestly, my parents are so tenderhearted, they proly would have been GBD had they not thought spanking was what you're "supposed to do, because the Bible says so." I just know that I want a *relationship* with my children, to be team mates. Like Crystal says over on the GBD forum, I want them to know that we are on the "same side". Punitive parenting puts the children and parents against each other, turns parenting into a battle. I don't want that in my family.

[jenny_islander]

I was punitively "parented" by my sisters because my father (who regarded his children as property) died when I was five and my mother checked out emotionally; also, she was usually tipsy by the time dinner was on the table. We did not own any parenting manuals and nothing was said about it in our church, so my sisters made it up as they went along. As I have posed elsewhere on these boards, it's interesting how the supposedly Biblical, divinely decreed method of punitive parenting resembles what two immature, perpetually angry people will do to anybody smaller and weaker.

I have struggled with the consequences of that upbringing ever since. These are the messages I have had to pry out of my thinking. First I had to recognize them because most of them were subconscious; actually thinking about the trap I was in would've driven me insane.

"Wrong" means "you got caught doing it." I learned that because that was the only time I ever heard it. Obviously, if you do it in secret it isn't wrong. There are no degrees of wrongness because everything that is wrong is punished in the same way. Eating somebody else's candy, playing with somebody else's things, sitting comfortably instead of correctly, not folding the clean towels a certain way, stealing--it's all the same thing. Just don't get caught.

Authority is to be avoided whenever possible and obeyed to the letter when avoidance is not possible. No matter how unreasonable their demands, disobeying is worse. OTOH. when the cat's away, the mice can slack off. There is no motive for doing hard work other than fear.

Never, ever annoy people in authority or inconvenience them in any way or you'll be punished. Never expect help for your problems. When I was 14, I was home alone and wrenched my ankle so badly I couldn't walk on it. So I dragged myself up the beach, climbed the 40-foot cliff (which was as rugged as one of those boulder arrangements in a zoo enclosure, so I could get up it on my butt if I just didn't look down), dragged myself up the steep slope at the top of the cliff (about 70 feet), crawled around the house, crawled up a flight of railless stairs to the 2nd-floor back door because the front was a sliding glass door I couldn't manage from my knees, got myself inside, then sat on a kitchen chair and scooted myself around in order to make myself some soup while my ankle swelled to the size of a grapefruit. When my mother got home from work, she was genuinely shocked that I hadn't bothered to call. I was surprised that she expected me to.

People in authority never really want an explanation; if they ask for one, they are just buying time to work themselves up into the proper frame of mind for punishment. So always start out with a lie. If you can baffle them with enough baloney, they might lose the momentum they were working on. As you can imagine, this went over great when I entered the workforce.

People in authority can see right into your head; they must, because they are always telling you what you are really thinking (bad thoughts) and why you do this and that (out of sheer wickedness) and being able to hit you until you shut up makes them right.

Bigger, stronger beings are always allowed to hit smaller and weaker ones. That's what dogs and children are for.

I had no right to privacy or dignity; my sisters could walk into my room at any time, my things could end up in the trash at any time and it was perfectly all right to shame me in front of my friends. Speaking up for myself was a sure ticket to more pain.

"Respect" is a euphemism for "fear." When you don't have to fear somebody anymore, you can ignore them.

Hatred is a great pleasure because as long as you control your face, nobody can catch you at it. Treasure your moments of vengeance and rebellion. Nobody can take them away from you.

When my "parents" went off to college, I slowly woke up out of my haze of misery. First I was filled with rage. I spent years being angry at everybody and everything. Then I got into therapy and started raising myself right. Eventually I made peace with God, the ultimate authority. Note: I came about this close to ending up as a Wiccan (God as the loving mother I longed for, without any troublesome talk of sin) or an atheist (God as the ultimate lie of those in authority). I was so sick and tired of being punished!

Ugh. Thinking about all this crud I had in my brain pan just makes me ill. I need to go check on my kids.

ETA: Back again--I forgot to say how this has affected my own parenting. In a nutshell: NO CHILD IN MY SITUATION. NEVER AGAIN.

[GrowingInGrace]

Wow - Jenny. :hugheart

Your post just reminds me of the terrorizing my eldest sister did to me a lot. Not quite to that extreme, but similar in that she did a caused a lot emotional and sometimes physical pain to me. It was always when my parents were working and she was really nasty and cruel. And there was no protection from my parents because they never did anything about it, or I was the one to get into trouble because it was always my fault for not listening to my sister when she was "in charge".

I remember being incredibly angry at my family all the time, I felt a lot of times like a non-person that just didn't matter, and felt afraid of both my parents and my sister. It took a lot of time to work out all that bitterness and anger in order to forgive them and move on.

My relationship with my sister didn't improve until she was in her 30s, when her "perfect" life fell apart after her divorce. She finally knew what it was like to feel pain and loneliness. All the time. She also finally got the blinders off her eyes and realized what a controlling, critical person she'd become (just like our mom). My mom had a hand in the downfall of her marriage, and also had meddled a lot in the divorce and the aftermath - particularly because my sis lived next door to our mom and my mom's name was on the title of her house, and not the ex-husband. My sister finally knew what it was like to be in a dark pit and totally at the mercy of our mother (since mom's name was on the title of the house, sis couldn't sell the house). So mom's controlling, hyper critical influence and emotional blackmail really came into full force on my sister during those years after the divorce. And she didn't like it one bit. It was painful, and messy, and left her confused and scared for the first time in her life. And with 3 kids to take care of, she was really at the mercy of my mother.

And guess who came to her rescue? Me. Because I knew what she was going through and even though I was so angry at her as I was growing up, I matured and was able to teach my sister better, healthier ways of handling things with my mother and with people in general. She learned a lot in the last 6 years that she never learned in the previous 30.

She's now re-married, and moved away from my mother but not without nearly causing an atomic war first. I had both my mother and my sister calling me all the time about the latest blowup between them. But I was able to help them through that. Honestly, if it weren't for me, she'd still be a wreck and going nowhere, learning nothing about healthy boundaries and healthy relationships (she was moving from one bad relationship to the next after the divorce).

I feel really good about that, about helping her grow and learn how to repair the damage that's been done. She is a better mother and sister because of that. And even my mother has relinquished the last vestige of control she's had over her adult children's lives. It's odd, we all have a better relationship now more than ever. And you'd never think that would happen after all the bitter feuding that went on.

I just wish all the years of pain and suffering didn't have to occur in order for us to learn to become better people. But I am glad we are on the other side of it and no one had totally fallen into destructive coping behaviors - and that simply by the grace of God that we were able to avoid totally destroying our own lives.

Okay, I guess I'll stop this tangent...

[birthchic]

I posted this somewhere else on the boards, but I was punitively parented. As a teenager I was raped and I never told my mom (or the police or anyone). The main reason is because I thought my mom would just get mad and blame me for not being where I was supposed to be. I didn't think I would give love and support, just judgement, humiliation, and maybe even more abuse.
I can't imagine my children suffering in silence the way I did.
:hugheart Same exact thing happened to me... I am so sorry :cry

to the OP- I was parented punitively as well as co-dependently. My biggest issue as a parent has been to really understand reasonable boundaries and enforcing those boundaries in a detatched way. It has also been a learning curve to allow negative emotions, while learning how to teach their appropriate expression. EG- we just visited my folks and at one point I heard her saying to me 4 year old "Don't be angry!!"-- to which I swooped in and took my DD in arms and said "You feel angry, huh? It's okay to feel that way. Can you use words to talk to Mommy about what you are angry about?" It's taken me a long time to learn how to do that.

I grew up with intense internal tumult and unexplained anger. Now that I have started my own parenting journey- much of those intense emotions are finally explained. I know that I will make my own mountain of parenting mistakes-- but I never want my kids to grow up feeling like they are unloved if they are imperfect or unhappy.

[Elora]

to the OP- I was parented punitively as well as co-dependently. My biggest issue as a parent has been to really understand reasonable boundaries and enforcing those boundaries in a detatched way. It has also been a learning curve to allow negative emotions, while learning how to teach their appropriate expression. EG- we just visited my folks and at one point I heard her saying to me 4 year old "Don't be angry!!"-- to which I swooped in and took my DD in arms and said "You feel angry, huh? It's okay to feel that way. Can you use words to talk to Mommy about what you are angry about?" It's taken me a long time to learn how to do that.

I grew up with intense internal tumult and unexplained anger. Now that I have started my own parenting journey- much of those intense emotions are finally explained. I know that I will make my own mountain of parenting mistakes-- but I never want my kids to grow up feeling like they are unloved if they are imperfect or unhappy.
:heart :heart

[MaryPoppinsIAin't]

It's way past bedtime & baby FINALLY went down, so I'm gonna have to come back to this tomorrow... but rest assured, I shall!

[ThreeKids]

Yes.

I knew I didn't like it, but I didn't know there was any other way. I thought the key would be to be careful to be more just.

I had to have a whole heart change to bring me around to grace-based discipline. Punitive parenting was just the start, my whole world view was adversarial and I didn't know there was any other way to be until the Holy Spirit made me look at Jesus' words until that paradigm fell apart.

[JoEllen]

Yeah, somewhat. Not physically, but I experienced my fair share of groundings.

[LearningMama]

Yes.
Conversation between my mom and I when I was maybe in middle school:

me:Why don't you hit me with a belt?
mom: I get so mad I just swing.
That pretty much sums it up.
The last time she hit me was my junior year of high school.

I was so afraid. She would get so mad I would think she was going to turn into a monster. :( On the other hand I always had what I needed and wanted. We had a nice house, I went to private school, took piano lessons. The thing my mom missed was building a relationship with me. I always knew I wanted to do better and looking back I can see how God has worked on my heart as I grew up and lead me down a path that led to to GBD.

It wasn't until I found GCM that I realized that my childhood was not ok,thanks to a thread in the UPP forum. Ladies here shared their stories and I broke down crying because I realized that the "discipline" I received growing up was abuse. Then I got my behind into counseling (and joined GCM).

Thank you to everyone who has and is sharing their story here on the public fourm. You never know who you may touch.:heart

[AngelaVA]

I wasn't sure I wanted to reply in light of the public forum but other posters have made good points about that:

There were never clear rules or boundaries and I desperately wanted them.



This for me as well, although my parents really did not want to parent punitively, they both had really horrible childhoods and wanted to do things differently but they were both caught up in tons of their own personal issues and didn't really have any idea what they were doing. I really wish they would have had a resource like GCM because I think they would have been open to the concept if they could have understood. As it was the best they managed was wildly inconsistent.

Other than a few clear things like hitting my sister I generally had no idea what would get me in trouble or make them angry at me. The thing that was hard for me is that I just felt so ashamed all the time and so responsible for their feelings.


Never, ever annoy people in authority or inconvenience them in any way or you'll be punished. Never expect help for your problems. When I was 14, I was home alone and wrenched my ankle so badly I couldn't walk on it. So I dragged myself up the beach, climbed the 40-foot cliff (which was as rugged as one of those boulder arrangements in a zoo enclosure, so I could get up it on my butt if I just didn't look down), dragged myself up the steep slope at the top of the cliff (about 70 feet), crawled around the house, crawled up a flight of railless stairs to the 2nd-floor back door because the front was a sliding glass door I couldn't manage from my knees, got myself inside, then sat on a kitchen chair and scooted myself around in order to make myself some soup while my ankle swelled to the size of a grapefruit. When my mother got home from work, she was genuinely shocked that I hadn't bothered to call. I was surprised that she expected me to.



I have a lot of similar experiences in second grade I broke my big toe on the way to school and I didn't tell anyone about it at school or daycare afterwards. I just thought they'd be mad at me and wouldn't care. My mom was really surprised when she picked me up that I didn't tell anyone all day. I remember thinking of other times I'd gone to the school nurse and ended up feeling so ashamed and not believed but I didn't really have words to say that.

Lots of times when I was an older kid and a teen I walked a really long way without proper winter coat or clothes in sub zero weather because I knew my parents be totally furious if I asked for a ride, or if I would have asked for a better coat. I got frostbite so many times from that, you think they would have noticed :shrug3

I also remember taking myself to the doctor a few times as a teenager when I was really sick. I remember one time calling my mom over at my aunt's house before I went she was helping my aunt with some project and I started crying and saying it's nice that you are there for ___ but not me. Once I got through with the appointment didn't want me to leave alone because my temp was 103 something but the clinic staff didn't know what to do so I finally just left anyway and went and got the prescription.

There are some worse things I'd rather not say that happened that again I didn't tell because I had this mentality that everything that happened was my fault and if I told I would just then have my parents angry and upset at me and I would feel humiliated.

[Sparrow]

Yes. My mom was more punitive than my dad. He did punish me, but I think he did it because he felt he had to. He was a new Christian, from a violently abusive home. He never hit me in anger, and was slow to anger


My mom had a quick temper, swatted, hit, slapped my face and yellow. Put me in my room. Ignored me.

Closer to my dad

[Mandolin Gypsy]

I

[MaryPoppinsIAin't]

Before I get started, I want to address something... I feel that it's important to share our stories, even the traumatic ones, where the public can see them. So they can see that those whose parents were loving but punitive still look for a better way. So they can see that those who were abused are NOT weak or broken, but that we survived, grew up, and determined that our children would never see the inside of that hell.

I can actually speak to both. My mother was a woman who i truly believe would have been all over GBD had she been introduced to it. She had a kind spirit, a long fuse, and was REALLY good at the whole house-wife/mother thing. One of those born organized instinctively neat & tidy people. Perfect doctor's wife. And she tried really hard to break the cycle of abuse from the previous generation. (My family does not have a good track record on either side.) I can remember each and every time she yelled or struck me in anger, because these were so out of character as to be blindingly, shockingly rare. She preferred the time outs, groundings, bribery/loss of rewards system, but her favorite tool was the quiet lecture. You know, the "I'm so disappointed", make 'em feel about 2 inches tall routine. Lots of shaming.

Of course, this was also the woman who kept a rubber-handled spatula in her purse for use on the bare behind of the child who dared act out in public and dead-panned to an adults' Sunday School class, "Excuse me while I go abuse my child." when she left to use it. Lemme tell ya, for something that barely reddened the skin, you could feel that sucker for days. I was by no means an easy child to parent, and I have no doubt that she felt she had to do the things she did, but that didn't make them any less damaging to our relationship.

Now my father, that was a different story. There was little attempt at actual discipline, he was just plain abusive. Emotional, mental, physical, even sexual when I was really young. I have to believe my mother never knew about that part. She found his stash of explicit materials, tracked down proof of his affairs, and walked away from 21 years of marriage when I was 13. Oddly, she got more punitive after the divorce... I think, in retrospect, she relied on the threat of his rages to keep us in line more than she realized.

How did it affect me... to this day, my father appears in my nightmares when there is something dangerous around me that I'm not picking up on. They are the only dreams where I forget that I'm asleep, and I wake up screaming.

I physically cringe/make myself smaller when people's voices get loud/angry. Slammed doors make me jump.

My first instinct when something goes wrong is to make very sure it is in no way perceived as my fault. Lie, if I have to.

Speaking of lying, I got very very good at it, to the point where I habitually lied rather than told the truth, even when it didn't matter. I fortunately discovered how poor a life skill that really was while I was still in school, but it's still something that occasionally trips me up. Part of it was self defense, part of it was deciding that if my father was going to go around telling all my teachers I was a liar (this was kindergarten, first grade, etc) I might as well reap the benefits as the suspicion.

When someone yells at me, I yell back, or if they're bigger than me, I get small and embarrassed and scared.

I most definitely did learn that the big and in charge can hit the small and vulnerable to make them do what you want, and I learned it so well that it's a reflex I now have to fight.

I was afraid of my father for a long time. I will never willingly see or speak to him again, and I'll be damned if he ever comes within sight of my children.

I miss my mother (died in '04), but there is a part of me that looks on her with contempt for the weakness that would allow her to stand at the sink silently washing dishes while I stood between her raging husband and my brother, whose sin was eating too many Doritos before dinner. I never really listened to anything she said after that, and the sad thing was, I was twelve. I know... I know that it wasn't weakness, it was that he had her so totally under his control, that she bought so thoroughly into "God, Husband, children, self", that she couldn't imagine crossing him. It was the only time I cussed my mother to her face and got away with it. It was also the turning point for her, I think, the point where I look back and see that her behavior began to change.

I have bipolar disorder. That makes it very difficult to tell where the effects of my childhood leave off and the brain chemistry problems begin, but the long and short of it is that I have temper issues at the best of times. If my husband knew what goes through my head some nights when the baby won't stop screaming, he'd never let me near JJ again.

I realized months before JJ was born that I could. not. allow. any sort of physical punishment to even be in my parenting toolbox. If I allowed myself to swat a hand, I would eventually smack a bottom, if I allowed myself the bare handed spanking, a spatula or wooden spoon wouldn't be far behind. Worst of all, I realized I didn't trust myself to know when to stop.

That began my search for another way, a better way. It led to my questioning time outs, grounding, taking away possessions or denying participation in special events. I started searching the internet, and eventually ended up here and on AoLFF, where virtually everything I read just CLICKED. I found myself saying "yes, yes, that right there is why X situation when I was five (or ten or fifteen) made absolutely no sense." What really sold it for me was the obvious time and effort Crystal put into doing the research to support GBD, contacting both secular and religious authorities in a variety of disciplines. Her articles and sermons are fairly comprehensive, and the more I read, the more I became convinced that this was my "better way", and I had best get to learning it before little man gets old enough to need it.

[Mandolin Gypsy]

H

[Amy]

I began this parenting thing 5 years ago and realized with horror that I was going to have to work hard to not re-live it on my own children. My greatest desire was not to visit that on them, but I found it was harder than just not wanting to. All the skills I had learned were those that were used on me. I had to deprogram punitive and reprogram GBD. I still fail miserably all the time. I have finally had to give myself grace and realize that if I even do HALF to them what was done to me I have made great strides in breaking the cycle. My brother is not so lucky and his son pays the price. :cry

I can relate to this :hugheart. My parents weren't violent like this, but I can identify with the difficulty of deprogramming yourself. :pray4

[LearningMama]

Before I get started, I want to address something... I feel that it's important to share our stories, even the traumatic ones, where the public can see them. So they can see that those whose parents were loving but punitive still look for a better way. So they can see that those who were abused are NOT weak or broken, but that we survived, grew up, and determined that our children would never see the inside of that hell.
:yes I really thought I had turned out ok with the spanking/hitting. Through GCM and blogs I learned I turned out ok in-spite of the spanking/hitting. I'm so so glad I found this place when my son was only a few months old.


If my husband knew what goes through my head some nights when the baby won't stop screaming, he'd never let me near JJ again.

I realized months before JJ was born that I could. not. allow. any sort of physical punishment to even be in my parenting toolbox. If I allowed myself to swat a hand, I would eventually smack a bottom, if I allowed myself the bare handed spanking, a spatula or wooden spoon wouldn't be far behind. Worst of all, I realized I didn't trust myself to know when to stop.

:hugheart I can relate to all of this. I can't believe the scary feelings I've had. Thankfully I have enough self-control to not act out on anything. Counseling has helped a lot. Physical discipline is not.an.option for me either. I'm so afraid I would not know when to stop. I believe my moms anger and rage came from a hard childhood and failed relationships. I've done everything I could to make sure I do not repeat the cycle.

[Daria_Aleksandrovna]

I can't remember my toddler years very much - some smacking yes, but not so much control and shaming. I remember affections far more.

What I still remember most is when i was older - consciously pushing and pushing and pushing my parents just to see how far I can go with my obnoxious words. Guess, what? Yes my parents lost it and beat cr*p out of me.

We had happy relationship but when they got annoyed with me, I'd make it as unpleasant for them as possible and they retaliated badly and then it was all vicious cycle...I was never good at stopping and just admit and saying sorry. Neither were they.

I am close with them, love and affections all round, sometimes we remember our horrible scandals... But I do hope I have more patience to nip it all in the bud before things get all out of control when my boys are older.

My parents had really poor conflict resolution skills - no wonder they divorced 26 years later after all verbal abuse and tit-for-tat they inflicted on each other instead of just stopping and saying sorry.

Thankfully my DH is wonderful wonderful - it's too hard to have vicious arguments with him.

[SewingGreenMama]

I was punitively punished too. My dad would react out of anger so he usually left the discipline to mom after he took it too far with me one time at age 5, he never spanked me again, though he often talked to me about what I did and grounded me or did other punishments, but after that he left any physical punishing to mom. Mom never spanked out of anger (that I remember) and the only time she ever slapped my brother was when he thought it was ok to cuss her out because the math problem he did was wrong, she without anger (at least she didn't show it if she was angry) stepped over and slapped his mouth, gave him his math and told him to go to his room and try again, he could come out when he thought he'd gotten it right. Dad came home and had a long conversation on how he was expected to respect and treat mom.

I now disagree with punitive punishment (I started out parenting punitively, but my temper is like my dads, and I scared myself a couple of times when I saw myself starting to follow after my dad, so I began to try and find other methods besides spanking), but I don't believe I was abused, when my dad realized his temper was too volatile to spank us he left it too mom. I have a great relationship with my mom and dad.

I think the thing that caused the biggest rift between me and mom, one that hasn't fully been healed yet is the fact that when I did something wrong she would be on the phone for hours telling every single one of her church friends every single detail about it.
I understand that she was frustrated and needed advise since dad was never home, that's ok. One church friend in particular I didn't mind her talking to because I knew that she loved me no matter what and it wouldn't be talked about over a cup of coffee with anyone but my mom. If she had kept it to that one church friend I don't think it would have been an issue between us. But I stopped confiding in her because then the entire church would know and that was humiliating.

This is why I'm VERY careful about who I tell when my children do anything to annoy me, and I NEVER do it when they are within hearing. Sometimes I slip up, but I apologize and learn from it.


It's taken me a long time to understand that good decisions should be made because they honor God, not because you are afraid of getting caught in a bad decision. That is one of the biggest things that drew me to GBD. I never developed a moral compass for myself because for a long time I based every decision on, "will my mom kill me (not literally, but YKWIM) if she finds out about this?" and "what will other people think about me if they find out?" I want my children to make good decisions because they are good and right and pleasing to the Father, not because they are afraid of getting caught.

The bold is how I looked at life as a kid too. The italics is how I want my kids to live...though I didn't know how to put it...thank you MrsHutch;985270!

---------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------

:popcorn

coming back later...

LOL eating pop corn right now. my fav snack!

---------- Post added 06-02-2012 at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was 06-01-2012 at 11:28 PM ----------

You know, I only read a few responses before I wrote the above. I didn't mean to lie:sadno, in fact I really can't call it lying, because a few minutes ago it was true.
I have very few memories of my childhood. I had a relatively mild childhood, esp in comparison to my husband, who also has very few memories of his childhood.

I think of his childhood and think abuse:bheart, a mother who put herself first, cigarettes and beer were the top of the priority list, even if it meant no electricity and my hubby had to wear last years coat that was 4" too small or eat hot dogs and ramen for 2 weeks breakfast, lunch, and dinner:sick2 (he actually saw a discovery channel special on those monks who can control their body temperatures to the point where they could walk out in the snow in their underwear or go swimming under the ice in normal swim trunks, because he so often didn't have a coat that fit he learn this trick and eventually didn't even need a coat). He was beaten by all of his step dads (they of course called it spanking, but it wasn't), except his current one who was a great dad to him once he showed up when hubby was around 15 I think.
The only reason he is a Christian now, is he spent nearly all his summers with a Christian friend and his wife:heart, both were childless and took hubby under their wing. They both passionately love the Lord:dox.

I'm avoiding the issue...I see his childhood as abuse, and it was severely so, but I have had blinders on to my own abuse.
Yes, my parents are wonderful people who I love dearly and have a great relationship with now. They knew no other way of parenting, they listened to the Dobbsens(sp?) often, our church agreed with punitive punishment, they followed Charles Spurgeon (I think that is the right guy, he preached against origianl sin, invented the alter call, and said if you don't feel saved then you must have lost it and need to pray again, if I have the wrong name down feel free to correct me:)),
In our church if your a Christian then you are free from sin (true:yes), therefore if you commit the same sin and can't seem to stop then you either were never a Christian, only thought you were, or you lost your Christianity and must re pray the prayer (false :no2) if you were a true Christian you could just stop by your own power now, since the Holy Spirit's power is now your power:doh.
Ex, my dad struggled with smoking and alcoholism most of his adult life, when he went for help, council, and accountability, he got a lecture, and a few weeks later when asked how he was doing and admitting he was still really struggling rolled their eyes at him and told him he should be over it by now, the physical addiction was gone and if he was a Christian there should be no mental addiction...remembering this now as an adult my heart breaks:bheart for my father, no wonder he is a loner who prefers to bury himself in work or movies/books. My brother is the same because the boys in the church were just like their dads and my brother was different, didn't like sports, was very imaginative, created a whole amazing world in his head which he often played acted out, the boys told him he would never have a wife because no woman would want such a 'pussy fag', their words (I'm not sure if that is against the rules, I'm new and trying to figure them out, if so let me know and I'll edit).
My mom and all 5 of her siblings were severely emotionally, physically, spiritually, sexually abused my my Grandfather, ignored and neglected by my Grandmother.
My Jesus is amazing and what he has done in mom is amazing. But it has been a terribly painful, slow road.
Though we were spanked as kids they abandoned it before I was 9. I was rarely punished or disciplined after this, my brother was, and interestingly enough I was jealous, I always thought my parents loved him more, because I knew the verse that says if you love your kids you'll discipline them, I thought punishment was discipline. Later as adults I found out that He thought they loved me more because I wasn't punished. I think mom and dad were afraid to punish me, afraid because of the abuse she endured, and I think they were afraid of not punishing my brother, afraid of what he would turn out to be if he wasn't punished.
Been talking to hubby.
I don't know what to think. If I need to talk to a councilor, we can't afford it. I don't know if my church offers it free or what the fee is. I just know in the past 15 minutes something has changed in my heart, it feels heavy, I'm trying to box it in I can feel it I'm afraid of what might come out, and I'm afraid that I'll succeed in boxing it back up to fester and hide. I'm wondering why I have so few memories of my childhood, just like my husband. When I try to remember it is like a dark gauzy curtian is in the way, sometimes something will trigger a memory, and the veil will temporarily blow aside and I'll see it clearly. But it doesn't happen often.
Thanks for listening.

[SubarbanHippie]

I was very much punitively parented as a child. Oddly enough, my mother also swung far to the permissive/overly praising side in squelch her guilt or to try and build our self-esteem. I honestly think her over bearing, overly protective, quick to praise, but swift to criticize ways caused me a lot of issues with insecurity and anxiety as an adult. She has since apologized, and we've really healed over the past few years. She is really supportive of how I have chosen to parent my DC, which is awesome.

[CapeTownMommy]

I was very punitively parented. I received my last spanking when I was probably 15 or 16, I'm not sure. And even years later, I was at university so 20 or so, my dad got angry at me one weekend when I was home, he picked me up, carried me over his shoulder to their bedroom, literally threw me down on the bed and proceeded to shout at me, in my face. I've blocked most of that memory out so I honestly can't even remember what it was about.

I have little relationship with my parents now. It took me years to really get distance from them to see things as they really are, even after I had my own kids. I care about them, but I have little desire to talk to them or spend time with them. Our relationship is very superficial. They are aware that we are closer to dh's parents (who are AWESOME and would have been 100% GBD if they knew what it was when dh was a child) - and jealous of it but they think it's our fault for not being better children to them. :rolleyes

Being parented punitively has affected me negatively in other was as well. My default when I think I'm in trouble is still to lie about it - for example at work I have to really focus to decide to tell the truth when I made a mistake, my subconscious response is always to try and hide it because I'll be punished. Which isn't even true in my work environment, but I've been programmed that doing something wrong means you have to hide it or you'll hate the consequence. I've lied to dh before so he won't know I did something he wouldn't like, and then had to go back to him and explain that I lied and why. I hate that my mind works like this now.

I also deal with massive anger issues, from the bad example my dad set. I stay calm for a while and then I explode with all the bottled-up frustration. I take 5-HTP daily now and it helps to keep me on an even keel.

For my kids, I want them to know that making mistakes are OK, it's human and it's more important to learn from mistakes than to be punished for them. I also want them to know that I love them regardless of what they do wrong. I was a "good kid" in the sense that I never got into bad stuff, never got drunk or did drugs or had sex - but I also knew at the time that if something bad did happen to me I would never have been able to tell my parents because they would have punished me for it.

I don't think of my parents as abusive people - my dad has come a long, long way to manage his anger, he is actually very pleasant to be around nowadays. I think they did the best they knew how, but I also know that their choices were default ones, they didn't spend a lot of time thinking about what is best for us or how to do better by their children. At least in my home growing up, punitive parenting was a selfish choice for my parents - they chose it because it was the path of least resistance, amongst other things. It's much easier to take out your frustration on your child's backside and afterwards feel relief from the frustration and also see tears etc. which you can choose to see as real regret. I remember receiving a spanking and choosing not to cry, and then being spanked again because I'm obviously not sorry yet - and then choosing to cry so that they can just stop hitting me. I think it made my parents feel better about themselves if they've "taught me" that what I did was wrong.

Anyway, I still have big feelings about a lot of this. And I just hope my kids will never have to work through these feelings. I fail them daily - but I want to do better, and I apologise to them when I fail (something my parents have never done). I tell them that I love them (again, I think my parents may have said that to me twice or three times in my life). I want them to know that nothing bad can be big enough that my love for them can't overcome it. I would have had such comfort in my life if that was true of my parents - and I want to create that for my kids.

[ReedleBeetle]

I was punitively parented. I used to think I was "just" spanked. Now I see it was more than that. I got my last spanking when I was SEVENTEEN. It was one of only a few as a teen. I have really struggled with my relationship with my parents, but it is finally getting better and better. I am pretty close to my mom now, but I don't think she knows that we are not spanking. She does NOT punish any of her grandchildren, so I am not worried about her (or my dad really) punishing our kids. Not like I am my MIL! Anyway, I don't want to go further on a public board.

Haha.....well...that l changed and the person we trust to take care of him is MIL!!! Everyone knows now...

[AdrienneQW]

RiAnnon, reading your first post in this thread is what made me realize the thread had to be old - and yep, it's initially from 2007!

[starbyfar7]

I was :cry

My parents tried to keep the lines of communication open.. and whenever I acted out or misbehaved (often and many times I got away with it because I was super sneaky) we would have a huge discussion together about what the problem is, why I was wrong, how we can fix the problem, and a family prayer where we would ask for guidance.. but there was always the consequences to be dealt with after our discussion.. which always consisted of my father's belt :(

Instead of learning from my mistakes and staying out of trouble to avoid the belt.. I would learn to be sneakier and sneakier to continue doing what I wanted to do..

Fast forward to my children.. I knew that my parents had the best of intentions but that those kinds of punishments did not get the message across.. I knew I would have to do something different in order to make sure I was reaching my daughters heart as opposed to forcing my will upon her.. I took a biblical parenting class at my church where they were ALL about beating your children into submission.. The group leader once told us a story about how he spanked his son for over an hour trying to "break his will".. Apparently his son (4) was throwing a tantrum and crying, so he was spanking him to make him stop.. but he wouldn't stop because he was being beaten.. so he kept spanking him so he would stop! Most of the parents were like :hunh at this story eventhough we all were of the mindset that the only way to parent was via spankings and rules.. But its actually the first time I started questioning the idea that my daughter NEEDED to be spanked..

[GraceAlone]

I was smacked as a child but I had a very happy childhood. I grew up believing that smacking was a necessary discipline tool and it wasn't until after I'd had my first child that I started to doubt that. Now I realise that I turned out fine in-spite of spanking because my parents were great at showing me that they loved me no matter what. The one negative effect that I can pinpoint is that my moral compass is based around fear of what other people would think/say.

[Bethany89]

Most definitely, but I should venture to say.. I wasn't really a bad kid lol.. I only remember being spanked a few times.. It was the fear of spanking I do remember.. But, my sister was a whole different child.. so I can share the story about her.. My sister is a wild child, very spirited, mean at times, down right nasty at times.. and even now, at 14 (almost 15) is downright nasty.. We think she has some mental things like.. anxiety, possibly bipolar disorder, but unfortunately my mother just now is starting to seek aid from doctors.. Anyway, I remember her spanking my sister so hard and so many times in a row I would cry and accuse her of abusing my sister. According to her, she tried other disciplining techniques, but from like 2 years old on.. I remember the spankings my sister received and bawling as i listened to it and her crying from the spanking.. But, she never changed her behavior. It never worked and it went on.. for years.. My parents had no idea what to do and everyone just kept saying spank her, she will learn.. so they did.. and I can picture it in my head. Now, I do think my sister has lasting problems from that.. on top of the problems she has naturally..

[Whirlwind]

My parents spanked my sibling and I when we were growing up, but it wasn't as harsh as most of my friend's or cousin's seemed to get it from their parents. We were spanked rarely, but hugged and cuddled constantly. Overall, I have a really great relationship with my parents. I love and respect them very much.

So when I was studying to be a social worker and took my first child welfare class, it was quite a challenge to me to read all of the studies documenting the negative effects of physical punishment. My knee-jerk response was the typical "Well, I turned out fine." I think on some level that I didn't want to acknowledge that maybe my parents weren't perfect. Finally, a professor made the comment that most parents just try to do the best they can with the knowledge that they have. Just because my parents may have made mistakes doesn't mean they were bad parents. They didn't have access to all the information that I do today. They did what they thought was right, but I can do differently. That was a very freeing thought.

Once I allowed myself to really look at parenting objectively without feeling like I was judging or criticizing my own parents, things got very simple. Hitting isn't nice, so I won't do it. That decision led me to the idea of AP, which I really like. I also learned more about the negative effects of other punitive techniques (yelling, traditional time-outs, etc.).

In retrospect, I can definitely see how spanking did have a negative effect on me, even if I supposedly "turned out fine". I have a tendency to internalize negative emotions. For a long time I struggled with self-harming behaviors, like cutting or scratching my skin. I think this in part stemmed from that idea that you have to suffer pain if you've messed up. I don't remember too many of my own spankings, but I definitely remember when my sister would get spanked. I would get so upset. I would feel terrible that she was being hurt and that I wasn't helping her. A good person stands up for others who are being hurt, right? So I would run as far as I could from the sounds of her crying and try to distract myself from my sadness/guilt by scratching myself until I'd leave red marks all over my legs. Self-inflicted pain can be a very effective way to distract yourself, but it is obviously unhealthy. Statistically, children who are hit are much more likely to engage in cutting. Sadly, I fit that statistic for a while. Fortunately, that is behind me. Hopefully, my children will never know what it is like.[COLOR="Silver"]

[Auroras mom]

I don't know if I have responded to this thread, but spanking is not the main or only criteria for determining if you were parented punitively.

I was definitely spanked. :shrug3

Edited b/c it is apublic forum.

I think the main thing is that they had a compelling urge to *control* me, in every aspect.

[HadassahSukkot]

Yes, but I do not want to get into it here.