Am I taking GBD too far ? [Archive] - Gentle Christian Mothers Community

J3K

03-20-2006, 09:34 AM

Stage :
Dh and I have gone to bed. It's about 9:30pm. The kids like to stay up later than we do , and we are all okay with this arrangment. Our "goodnights" and "snuggles" are done before I go to bed.

About 10:30pm Hannah comes into our bedroom. She's 8.5yrs old. She sleeps on a makeshift bed on the floor next to our bed. Despite the fact she has her own room. :giggle

Hannah approaches my side of the bed and says "Momma ? Are you up ?"

me: Yes honey I'm still up.

Hannah: Then would you come to the dining room and play Guess Who with me ?

me: I don't think so sweetie. I'm warm and snuggly in bed. But thanks for the offer.

Hannah: Oh come on.. please ?? I promise we'll have lots of fun.

me: Sweetie , I don't know....

Hannah: Please ? Just me and you ?

me: You've changed my mind. I'll be up in a minute.

Hannah scampers out of the room to set up the game. Dh turns to me and says "You've taken this gentle stuff too far. Letting a child pull you out of bed. You shoulda stuck to your guns."

me: I didn't have guns to stick to. I'm laying here not falling asleep and my daughter wants to play a game. It's not like she woke me from a deep sleep. I changed my mind. If I really didn't want to play I would've put it off til tomorrow.

dh: I still think you let her push you around.

me: Nonsense. I think you're upset because I'm crawling out of your bed to spend time with someone else. Honey , you were sawing logs before she came in , and I'm restless. Really...it's fine. She was told that she'd changed my mind.

********
so....
whaddya YOU think ? Would you have stayed in bed ?

okay wait....before you answer....
pretend you are an insomniac and although tired , can't fall asleep before 5am and usually toss and turn uncomfortable all night long.

now answer...LOL

Chris3jam

03-20-2006, 09:38 AM

Wow! I *am* an insomniac! And I have a dh who says exactly those same things (about the kids taking advantage of me, or 'getting away with it' when I change my mind -- he's constantly saying that our home is 'run by the children' and I let them push me around). And I probably would have done the same thing as you did. . .it's not like I would have been sleeping, anyway, and a diversion would have been welcome. :shrug

ArmsOfLove

03-20-2006, 09:54 AM

I think it was fine. Would he have minded if you got up for any other reason???

purplerose

03-20-2006, 09:57 AM

I don't think so. It sounded like Hannah wanted some "alone" time with mommy. :heart :mrgreen

wombmate3

03-20-2006, 10:08 AM

As an insomniac myself, I find that DH can't relate, no matter what I am doing. He thinks I am 'staying up all night' on purpose. He does let me sleep in when he can though. I can sleep fine in the morning :rolleyes

I don't think you did anything wrong. I think you recognized that you weren't sleeping and your daughter was really craving some alone time with you. I actually think you did a wonderful job of responding to a need. :hug

Joanne

03-20-2006, 10:17 AM

Hm.

Well. I've found that sometimes when a person who is "qualified" to make a judgement or evaluation feels something needs to be said, they find that opportunity as it presents itself. Is it possible that your husband feels you *do* take gentle too far in general. And that he used this as an example, even if it wasn't the best one to show his concern?

As an isolated incident, I don't think it was bad, inappropriate or wrong. In the context of permissiveness (I'm not saying you are there, but that it's worth considering), it would be another example.

milkmommy

03-20-2006, 10:23 AM

I think you did fine for this one incident. :grin
Kinda OT anyone remember to comercial for leap frog when the child comes and asks for a new leap frog story and the mother says all the stores are closed.. and the child says but is the "internet" closed ad the mom smiles and gets up?? :giggle That comercial always annoyed the heck ouuta me :laughtears
Deanna

ServantofGod

03-20-2006, 10:26 AM

so....
whaddya YOU think ? Would you have stayed in bed ?

Personally, *I* would have stayed in bed.

To me, it sounds permissive and I would tend in this one example, to agree with your dh.

I'm pretty tight on bedtime boundaries, though. :-)

Joanne

03-20-2006, 10:31 AM

Personally, *I* would have stayed in bed.

To me, it sounds permissive and I would tend in this one example, to agree with your dh.

I'm pretty tight on bedtime boundaries, though.

I'm inclined to agree.

Hannah approaches my side of the bed and says "Momma ? Are you up ?"

me: Yes honey I'm still up.

Hannah: Then would you come to the dining room and play Guess Who with me ?

me: I don't think so sweetie. I'm warm and snuggly in bed. But thanks for the offer.

Hannah: Oh come on.. please ?? I promise we'll have lots of fun.

me: Sweetie , I don't know....

Hannah: Please ? Just me and you ?

me: You've changed my mind. I'll be up in a minute.

If this happens regularly or frequently, I'd consider it permissive. The language to me is indecicive. "I don't think so" and "I don't know". If I communicated with my children as a routine with that lack of firmness, we would have a very permissive home.

I'd encourage you to either say *Maybe* or *no* rather than "I don't think so".

This Busy Mom

03-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Well, if you and your dh had other plans for the evening :shifty or if you were dead tired and really didn't want to get out of bed and you let her talk you into it anyways, then it would be a different story and more permissive :shrug .

I was trying to post when everyone else was posting :giggle . I've been really bad in the past about the indecisive language and it always came back to bite me. I have to give clear answers especially to my child that likes to push things...

milkmommy

03-20-2006, 10:38 AM

Hannah: Please ? Just me and you ?

me: You've changed my mind. I'll be up in a minute.

Hannah scampers out of the room to set up the game. Dh turns to me and says "You've taken this gentle stuff too far. Letting a child pull you out of bed. You shoulda stuck to your guns."
:shrug just adressing this one incident I'm not sure I think you were being permissive I'm assuming you decided to get up because yu did agree it could be fun ect and not to avoid a fight.. :shrug If you did it as a one in a blue moom occasional thing overall have good bedtime boundries and a firm (but respectful) authority over your child. Then I dont see a problem only you know how far it has gone..

Deanna

Love_Monkey

03-20-2006, 10:39 AM

I'd encourage you to either say *Maybe* or *no* rather than "I don't think so".

A little OT: This is interesting. I use "I don't think so" frequently. I wonder if this is why my kids seem unable to accept this as a "no". :shifty

HELLO clue train!

DogwoodMama

03-20-2006, 10:54 AM

Joanne

03-20-2006, 11:08 AM

I say "I don't know" when I *am* open to considering a request that is "out of the norm", or haven't decided about a particular issue yet. I have no problem telling dd "no" if it is clear to me. Is it wrong to say "I don't know" if I really haven't decided, or just not the best way to say it? Is there a better phrase to use? "Maybe"? "Let me think about it?" etc?

My feeling of the OP was that it was a "no". "But thanks for the other" and "snuggly and warm in bed"........

But it wasn't really a "no". If this is a pattern of behavior and communication, I can understand the DH's viewpoint.

ServantofGod

03-20-2006, 11:47 AM

See, it seems to me that if dh brought it up, it probably wasn't the one and only time he's noticed something that looked permissive to him, YK?

On Saturday night, I let the kids stay up for hours extra, watching movies. Dh recognizes that this is a treat and not a warning sign that I'm permissive about bedtime, YKWIM? If they were about to go to bed every 3 or 4 nights and then made a plea to watch a movie and I conceded, he might say, "What's with the excessive flexibility about bedtime?" :scratch Then, he might pipe up to me, "Honey, it seems like you've taking this gentleness too far...doesn't "it's bedtime" mean "it's bedtime"?

J3K

03-20-2006, 12:32 PM

re: bedtimes....
Our bedtime routine is that we don't have one. It's worked for years for US and our lifestyle choices. John and I usually hit the hay about 9:30pm. The kids get their snuggles , kisses , stories , etc... before that time. The kids like to stay up late. Our only rule is that they be in their beds by 11pm. Ben and Becca retreat to their rooms and Hannah joins us in our room on her makeshift bed on the floor. (she doesn't like to sleep in a room by herself...never has , even as in infant.)

re: indecisive langauge.
There are plenty of times I use more distinct words to show what I'm feeling. This particular time I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Lay in bed tossing and turning completely frustrated or get up and tend to a child who needed Mommy/Daughter time. If I'd been sleepy my answer would've been a firm no. And knowing Hannah she would've accepted that , not happily , but accepted it anyway. For me , at that moment in time , I just didn't know what I wanted and I let her help me make up my mind. Hannah wasn't whiny or clingy or disrepectful in her words in my opinion. She is normally very quiet when she comes to bed.

re: Dh thinking it's too far...
He's on board with no spanking and no time outs and no grounding. However, he thinks I discuss things with the kids too often. I call it "considering their opinions and feelings". He calls it " allowing them to sway your initial opinion". Reading one more story , watching their show instead of mine , going shopping when I would rather stay home , etc.... I am making sacrifices for my kids. They can't drive themselves around and after days of staying inside due to nasty weather...I saw the wisdom in getting them out of the house EVEN THOUGH I really wanted to stay home.

OOPS
Just got a phone call....local plane crash at the Ripley's Believe or Not Museum...took off from the College of the Ozarks....I heard it go down and I'm miles away.....gotta go for now....I'll come back later.

milkmommy

03-20-2006, 02:56 PM

See, it seems to me that if dh brought it up, it probably wasn't the one and only time he's noticed something that looked permissive to him, YK?
not always my DH will bring up first time unique situations all the time. Like DD gets a snack when she wakes up from her nap its 99.99% of the time eaither fruit or cheese and crackers but one day I changed it and gave her a mini drumstick cone, DH comments on letting her manuplate me. :rolleyes

Deanna

Joanne

03-20-2006, 03:08 PM

However, he thinks I discuss things with the kids too often. I call it "considering their opinions and feelings". He calls it " allowing them to sway your initial opinion". Reading one more story , watching their show instead of mine , going shopping when I would rather stay home , etc.... I am making sacrifices for my kids. They can't drive themselves around and after days of staying inside due to nasty weather...I saw the wisdom in getting them out of the house EVEN THOUGH I really wanted to stay home.

I think a democratic, negotiable, mutual environment *can* work and not be permissive.

But the above quote would not work for me and my home. In that regard, I'm not saying you are wrong or that you are permissive. But I can understand and empathize with how your DH might feel.

ArmsOfLove

03-20-2006, 03:24 PM

I say "I don't know" when I *am* open to considering a request that is "out of the norm", or haven't decided about a particular issue yet. :think I have no problem telling dd "no" if it is clear to me. Is it wrong to say "I don't know" if I really haven't decided, or just not the best way to say it? Is there a better phrase to use? :shrug "Maybe"? "Let me think about it?" etc?
I use it that way too.

My initial reaction is 'no'--to EVERYTHINHG. & I tend to be indecisive about things. That's part of my personality, temperament & learning style :shrug So when I say "I don't think so" or something equally non-comittal I'm open to being shown why I might think something else :grin

But when I say No I mean No & everyone knows it :grin

I think a democratic, negotiable, mutual environment *can* work and not be permissive :yes

But the above quote would not work for me and my home. In that regard, I'm not saying you are wrong or that you are permissive. But I can understand and empathize with how your DH might feel.ITU

J3K

03-20-2006, 03:44 PM

I"ve said it before...in my quest to move from punitive I often lean towards permissive.

I dont feel trampled on , or run over by the kids. Neither does dh. The kids are respectful and polite. They know when I say "No , end of discussion" I mean it.

There are many things I do with the kids that I"ve been talked into doing. In those situations though I havent said at any point "No ,end of discussion". My final opinion is mine alone to make. Like leaving the house at 7pm to go window shopping even though I"d rather stay home with hot tea and good romance novel....those were my plans until the kids came to me with compelling arguments why they"d like to be taken out for a couple of hours.
"We"re fighting with each other because we"ve been cooped up too long cuz of the nasty weather."
" We"re bringing our own money. You don"t have to buy us anything"
" One hour away from these four walls would make a big improvement in our dispositions"

There have been times when Ive said "No , not tonight. Tomorrow absolutely. Hang in there a few more hours". And times when I say "I had plans to read a book and relax , but youve changed my mind."

Its been very intersting to read all the responses.
When dh gets home tonight and things have settled down I"ll ask him to be more specific...if hes been thinking this (I"m too permissive) across the board , or if its just a couple of occasions.

Irene

03-20-2006, 05:14 PM

My initial reaction is 'no'--to EVERYTHINHG. & I tend to be indecisive about things. That's part of my personality, temperament & learning style don't know So when I say "I don't think so" or something equally non-comittal I'm open to being shown why I might think something else grin

But when I say No I mean No & everyone knows it grin I was gonna say this! Actually, Im still learning when *not* to say no :O and say maybe or dont know instead, because sometimes I will automatically say no, then realize *I* was wrong, or "oh yeah, that *does* sound like a good idea" :O However, I guess I do have a "no" they understand, because sometimes I give a no and they leave it alone :shrug maybe its tone of voice, but I gotta work on not saying no first all the time :O

mommy2abigail

03-20-2006, 06:12 PM

I haven't read all the posts, but just wanted to say I think you did fine. You recognized your daughters need to be with you and like you said, it wasn't that you were doing something you absolutely did not want to do, yk? And as for your dh, I don't know about you, but there have been many (many) times that I laid down in bed wanting to relax and sleep, and HE had other ideas... :O iykwim...I wouldn't say I was being permissive with his desire to spend some time with me, just recognizing his want and need to spend time with me, and responding accordingly.

ServantofGod

03-20-2006, 06:42 PM

I dont feel trampled on , or run over by the kids. Neither does dh. The kids are respectful and polite. They know when I say "No , end of discussion" I mean it.

I can see this. I have one friend, call her Mary, who is pretty militant with her kids. Certainly no problem with permissiveness, there! ;) We also have a mutual friend, call her Susie, who is really democratic with the kids. When I see Susie's interactions, I see a very loving mother who is really considerate of her kids, really respectful and (most importantly) kids who make a good case for something in a respectful kind of way. It's not whiny and sassy, "I want this yogurt instead of dinner!", it's a reasonable negotiation; "Some people really like to eat light and I'm like that, so I'd like to have this yogurt instead of meatloaf. Can I please?" It bugs the heck out of Mary, cause she thinks Susie is too permissive. I can't say that I would be willing to negotiate all the things that Susie is willing to with her kids, but the way it plays out, I don't think she's too permissive, mainly because the kids are not brats and the relationship is mutally loving and respectful.

So maybe that is how it is in your house. :-)

Marsha

03-20-2006, 07:06 PM

I think a democratic, negotiable, mutual environment *can* work and not be permissive.

But the above quote would not work for me and my home.

(Sorry that's a quote, but I don't know how to do it)

See, I want so badly to have a democratic negotiable mutual environment. I am still workin gon my own feelings of disappointment and resentment that we can't have it.
My dd1 needs absolutes. Therefore, there are lots of "I'm thinking about it" or "wait a minute" because my yes has to be yes and my no, no. It took me a long time, and we are still working out kinks from my trying to be so democratic, and cooperative. I resisted being the leader, the authority figure really.
Anyway, wanted to point out that what works for one home and one child doesn't always work for the next, you know?

J3K

03-21-2006, 08:29 AM

To do a quote..... [quote ] [ / quote ] remove spaces and put your stuff in the middle. Or hit the word "quote" in the post you want to reply to.

Servant of God , Susie's house sounds a lot like mine. It can look permissive , and I know I lean that way. The kids ask for things respectfully and present a solid 'argument' for their side. I don't tolerate whiny bratty behavior. Like when they all said to me "We'd rather have mac n cheese for dinner. Can we make it so you don't have to ?" And most of the time , if the question is presented in a respectful loving manner I let them have their request.

I asked dh about being too permissive , if it was the one incident or if it's an ongoing thing and he said "I won't touch that with a ten foot pole." :giggle So I asked in a different way a little later on and he said "I was really looking forward to snuggling you all night and then you got up to be with her instead. It stung a little." ahhhh I explained that I was unaware he had "alternate plans" and reinforced my getting up with Hannah is NOT a rejection of him. I also pointed out that if we'd been in the middle of something , or if I'd known his plans , I would not have gotten out of bed.

:phew

This Busy Mom

03-21-2006, 08:59 AM

So I asked in a different way a little later on and he said "I was really looking forward to snuggling you all night and then you got up to be with her instead. It stung a little." ahhhh I explained that I was unaware he had "alternate plans" and reinforced my getting up with Hannah is NOT a rejection of him.

;) See, this would be my dh and what he was thinking. I just tell him I need him to make his plans clear and I'd be more than accomodating :giggle .

J3K

03-21-2006, 09:05 AM

Chris3jam

03-21-2006, 09:15 AM

See...and dh knows that about me too.... alternate plans always take the cake over a board game. He KNOWS this about me....argh..... so he's made me question the entire way we're disciplining because he wanted me in bed and I got up. Silly Monster.

Hmmmm. . . sounds like he needs some GBD. . . some boundaries. . . a few role-playing scenarios so he can learn how to effectively and properly communicate his feelings. :giggle :giggle :giggle ;) (iow. . .he's playing you! :laughtears)

Jillian

03-21-2006, 09:17 AM

I think I probably seem indecisive, too. And my guys are little lawyers, too. Always pitching a plea bargain :giggle Especially my oldest, he's so willing to compromise. That will help later in life, when I'm not the only one compromising! LOL

My initial reaction to everything is no...old tapes being played in my head. Then the kids state their case, or even I realize there is no reason not to say yes, or some variation of yes. Then I change my mind.

I've realized I need to work on my inital answer, because that is the problem. Instead of saying "No. No, I don't think so. Well, maybe. Okay, I changed my mind." I say "Let me think. Give me a minute and I'll get back to you." Then I'd talk to them about the things that I would consider and we can come up with a solution together.

So, I don't think its permissive. Just the wording makes it sound that way.

bliss

03-21-2006, 10:30 AM

my random two cents - 1st I applaud the mamas who think twice/give it a minute before saying "no" - my mom said no as a first response to everything, and then later (when it was too late to change the situation) would say some lame-o thing like, "I didn't really give that any thought, and later I decided I should have said yes." :rolleyes gee thanks mom. 2nd the thing that stuck out to me about why the original situation was not permissive is because the child asked nicely. My kids (esp. Booger) are such whiners/fit throwers that I would love to get a nice request like that, with continuing nice words even after the initial "maybe" or "I'm not sure". Sounds like she nicely changed your mind partly with the kindness of her request getting through to you and I think that's :tu.