How do I "do" GBD while driving down the highway? Eeek!

[Anginj]

Hello!
I'm new here, and I am very new to this whole method of child training. I was raised in a very punitive (spanking) home and thus far dh and I have used mostly punitive (some spanking, some more creative) methods of disciplining our 4 children. I have recently felt so convicted to change my ways. These boards certainly opened my eyes to new and better ways of teaching my children how to live well. I really want to move out of the whole scene of punishing, shaming, and yelling. I discovered this site about two weeks ago, and I've seen real improvements in my children ever since I started trying the ideas here.
Anyway, I have a specific problem and I really need input from some of you veteran Gentle Moms! :)

My two dds (5 and 6) sit in the back seat of my van. Logistically this is the best seating arrangement. My 5yo pushes the buttons of my very emotional 6yo almost every time we get in the car. She'll do little annoying things like staring, breathing weirdly, and the ever popular almost-touching-but-not-close-enough-to-count. This sends my 6yo into orbit (which doesn't take long because she is very highly strung.) I used to yell at them both to stop and then threaten to pull the van over and come back there "and you won't think it's funny if I come back there." Yuck.

I don't want to do that anymore, but I don't know how else to get the 5yo to listen to me and stop. Lately I've tried saying "You need to respect your sister's feelings and stop when she asks you to" or words to that affect. Now the 6yo will even say "E, you're not respecting my feelings. I asked you to stop." But the 5yo either keeps doing the annoying thing or just laughs it off.
Help me, please.
This is really frustrating. Especially now that she sees that I'm not going to do the things I used to do. I'm also really afraid that her conscience isn't well formed. Hmmmm.....
Okay, I know that this has gotten quite long. Any input will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!!

[MomToDM]

If at all possible I would separate them in the van, one in the middle and one in the back, they may not like it, but oh well. It may be less convenient for you than the current set up, but being separated like that they won't be able to see each other and you're basically setting your trip and you and them up for success.

[Mommyo6]

Well you can't spank while driving down the road either, can you ! :yes And my experience with kiddos has proved that yelling at kids in the back seat is totally unproductive too. I don't know about your van ,but my van just doesn't go when kids are doing this kind of sutff. It just pulls over. It stops and engine dies. And we just sit there. Other than the first few times it doesn't even take any explantion from you as to WHY the car pulled over and stopped because they know. When you do stop don't explain, just sit there and let them bicker, when they finally notice you're stopped and ask you why just say , "Oh the car won't go with all that arguing and fussing around. When they look at each other and get quiet, resume driving. Now it's not convienent, no way. But it works! So you won't have to do it often. Oh and it's good to try it when you're going someplace they really want to get to. Not a good idea to try it on the way to their dentist check ups! ;) My car also doesn't go if seatbelts are undone!
You may have to "retrain" every few months or so! They will forget! But then I keep forgetting I'm supposed to be on a diet, so who's perfect!

[Wonder Woman]

Very good suggestion, Mommyof6

[findingjoy]

My ds (5) pesters his sister (2) in the van often. Especially when he is bored. Sometimes I separate them by putting him in the far back, but sometimes it is easier to have him in the middle section. They are separated by an aisle, but he can still pester her from there. and it doesn't take much to bother her either! Usually what I do is just pull over and say I can't go on until he stops pestering. He knows he shouldn't be doing it and why. I ask him if he is ready to be kind and calm and then if he is I pull back on the road. There are times of course when it's not convenient to pull over. Usually now I can just say "do I need to pull over?" or "it looks like I need to stop the van" and he stops what he is doing.
Sometimes he just needs a gentle reminder. Occasionally I have to actually pull over to get the point across. For some reason it is really effective for ds. He hates just sitting there not moving! It only took a couple of times on the first trip that I tried it for him to remember and not pester her anymore. I also explain that (besides the fact that he needs to be kind to his sister) it also is not safe for me to drive with screaming kids in the back!

[raisa]

The other ideas I have to add are distraction and playfulness. Music, singing, I Spy, animal sounds (I['ve played Old MacDonald where the kid gets to choose anything to be on the farm and I make up a noise -- a train, a spaceship, Grandma . . . ) And, at that age, I think they're old enough to take them aside and ask for ideas on how to be more successful in the van.

I think kids feel feel both trapped and isolated in the car, which is why they pester (to seek connection) or get annoyed (because they can't protect their personal space). I recently took DS in my sister's car with her younger son (3 yo). We switched her son into his older brother's "big boy" booster seat, and put my DS in the other carseat. So all of a sudden my nephew is in the "big brother" position with his younger cousin next to him. It was very interesting to see the roles they played. He started saying "He can't have that book! He can't read! No more singing!" and then he said "He needs to stop. He's making me bossy!" :lol

[Mama Calidad]

The other ideas I have to add are distraction and playfulness. Music, singing, I Spy, animal sounds (I['ve played Old MacDonald where the kid gets to choose anything to be on the farm and I make up a noise -- a train, a spaceship, Grandma . . . ) And, at that age, I think they're old enough to take them aside and ask for ideas on how to be more successful in the van.

What she said! :yes Books, snacks, toys...busy hands and busy mouths.

[Anginj]

Thanks for all of your wisdom, ladies. It's funny, but my dh also thinks that it may be time to switch the seating pattern in our van. We'll see. I think that first I'll try the "oh my, the van can't run" technique. Singing is sometimes helpful too.
Thanks again, everyone!! :-)