Did I do ok?

[Chris3jam]

Alrighty, then. My children (the boys, 8 and 9 yo) have finally alienated the last person in the neighborhood that kinda liked/tolerated them. :bheart

So. . . they are no longer allowed outside, unless I can take them to the park. I explained the whole thing. . . what they did, why the neighbors are upset, etc. It's a long depressing story. . so I won't cover it here (unless you ask ;)).

So. . . is that a punitive thing to do for an 8 and 9 yo?

Now, I'm getting flack for this, but I've let the apologizing be up to them. One thing I despise is "making" a child apologize. . they don't mean it, and I think it's useless for both parties involved if the person doesn't mean it. At best, it's hypocrisy.

Anyway, they *will* have to make amends. . they have to help daddy fix what they broke, etc. . ..but, I've spoken to them about apologizing and why. And I'm just :cry :cry :cry :cry :bheart that they won't. But, anyway. . . . .

Is it punitive? Or is it consequences? Or, do you need more details to decide?

[milkmommy]

Need more details :hug2
Deanna

[Chris3jam]

Need more details

Ok. . you asked!

The first to go were the next door neighbors on one side. That happened a couple of years ago when A picked their not-quite-ripe tomatoes between their house and our house, and threw them (like balls). Also, they took the balloons that they had up for a birthday party. Yes, I 'caught' them, and they had to return them. They also 'replaced' the tomatoes and made a card, and went over to apologize. But, when the new neighbors 2 doors down moved in a couple of months ago, those were the first words out of their mouths to the new neighbors -- my kids' exploits. :( I mean, there hasn't been another incident since, but, still. . . . .after years. . . . . :(

So, neighbors move in 2 doors down. And they have a little 5 yo girl, and so my dd is over there all the time. Now, this is the first time dd has ever been out of my sight. . .so, I'm constantly telling the boys to "check on Megan", since I have a problem walking and since they're out there anyway. Well. . .they take that very seriously, and "keeping an eye on Megan" means that they feel they need to be on the same property. Well. . . needless to say, that's causing problems. And they told me yesterday how "disrespectful" and "rude" the boys are to them. How they tell them to leave their property, and the boys say "No, we need to stay with Megan." So. . .I got that cleared up. . .even though they are still convinced that the boys are 'rude'. Which, since they weren't sure of the words to use, they probably were. :( I do not feel all that great about my dd being over there all the time. . and she's not allowed in the house, and I check out the windows all the time to make sure I can see her, and if I can't, I send the boys to check. But. . .the neighbors *will not* come over here. :( Anyway. . that was a cause of a big blow up yesterday (me). :(

Now, the coup de grace. Our next door neighbor, on the other side, has a two-story outbuilding. The top is a 'clubhouse' that his kids used. His kids are all grown and gone, and he was generous enough and kind enough to offer (we did not ask) that the boys could use it to play in. Every time I apologized for the balls in his yard and stuff, he always said, with a smile, "Don't worry! Kids are kids! They're having fun!" Now, he made sure that they knew not to go into the bottom part of the building. And every time I looked out, they seemed to be staying in the top part (don't know about when daddy was supposed to be watching them). But, a few weeks ago, 8 yo ds 'fell through' the roof part of the bottom part of the building. We covered it up, and, of course, we will fix it. I figured it was a matter of time. . .the shed is over 20 years old and dry-rotted, and I explained to the boys that they should not have been on that part, anyway. Well. . .today I hear a different story. How our neighbor saw them *jumping* on the roof, and tearing up his bush, which is right next to it. And the part that upset him (and me, when I heard about it) the most? The kids lied to him when he said something to them about it. :( :bheart He said they said it was the boys they were with. :(

And there's the neighbors across the way. . . .. .. .. well, you get the picture, so I'll stop here. Let's just say that my kids are active and loud.

So. . . believe it or not. . . .that's the short version.

So. . .did I do ok? Should I do something else? Something more? Something less?

[milkmommy]

:hug2 I see why they aren't allowed outside of your property buy why restrict them to the house is this a tempory thing while you figure out a diffrent plan or how things will be from now on?


Now, I'm getting flack for this, but I've let the apologizing be up to them. One thing I despise is "making" a child apologize. . they don't mean it, and I think it's useless for both parties involved if the person doesn't mean it. At best, it's hypocrisy.
As you may know I feel a bit diffrent on this. One thing that DH and I are really big on teaching our DD and future children is to be aware of others we think its totally a lost art :shifty. Sometimes I do feel the process of 'aplogizing" can be just as important as the true heart behind it especially in older kids.

Deanna

[Chris3jam]

One thing that DH and I are really big on teaching our DD and future children is to be aware of others we think its totally a lost art

Well, see, this is why I'm sooooo :bheart :bheart. This is exactly what I try to teach my children, too. When they tore off the tomatoes, they did apologize. . . . they were still young. But, they are 8 and 9 now, and I am ready for them to start doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. We've talked about it. . . .and they are trying to find ways to do it. But, they are a bit on the 'shy' side, and they are talking about making a card or something. I did tell them I would 'help'. They *do* feel bad.

I'm so upset, because respect and honor and honesty and valuing others is a great big thing for us. . .and something we've been working on pretty hard. And it's very discouraging to think that nothing has "taken". I see little times of "unselfishness" at home, but it's just pretty much :bheart.

I cannot just restrict them to the property. . .I've tried that. . .and they just 'forget' and spill on over. We're in a subdivision, so it's tough. If I let them out just on the property, they would be back inside in the space of about 10 minutes.

[milkmommy]

:hugheart sometimes even the best intentions go seemingly unrewarded :hug2
But, they are 8 and 9 now, and I am ready for them to start doing the right thing, because it is the right thing to do. We've talked about it. . . .and they are trying to find ways to do it. But, they are a bit on the 'shy' side, and they are talking about making a card or something. I did tell them I would 'help'. They *do* feel bad.
I think one of the hardest jobs parents have is helping our kids "right a wrong" and face the "natural conquences" of that action. To me (and as a parent to a 3 year old ignore me if I sound clueless and dumb :O) this includes us being to parent and "enforcing" our kids to face there mistakes. I also think we need to be there for them guiding and being their voice when they can't or have trouble. I don't necessarly think a forced applogy is a good idea I do feel addressing the issue with the one they offended is. In this case I'd probably help them to "confess" to the neighbor and to aks how they can make amends. Like to say
Mr X we broke Y jumping off whatever We would like to help pay for repairs can we do some yard work for you or something along those lines. It causes them to "face the music" so to say but doesn't force an applogy. If they had issues saying this them self I'd give them the words or speak in their behalf especially if it is shyness thats preventing them.
I remember not being allowed to play with a friend cause I was invited over to a playdate and didn't say "Thank you" in the end. It wasn't because I wasn't thankful or trying to be rude but I was just really shy. I actually went with my mom to a card store that afternoon and bought a special card and sent it. (before I knew the mom was upset) but it was percieved as me trying to " get on her good side" after the fact :rolleyes. Its unfair and silly but it is how a lot of people judge others. How do they respond in the moment not latter after they decide its convient. Honestly there are many times I wish my parents had helped me find my voice or had spooken for me.

Deanna

[Chris3jam]

Yeah, thanks, Deanna. We do talk about it and we figure out the best way to handle the situation. Dh talked to the neighbor today, which is how we go the "rest of the story". . .he also apologized for them. But, the kids do have to face up to what they did. And we're trying to figure out a way for them to do that. I, of course, am always there to help. .. I will go over there with them. . .whatever. I'm not throwing them into the deep end. . .but, whether they apologize or not, they need to make it right. They will be helping to pay for and fix the damage.

You know, that's a good idea, helping him to clean his yard or something. . .they've done that before, so they should feel comfortable doing that. . . . .

[milkmommy]

:hug2 I know this will be a hard area for me as well. I'm still painfully shy when the time comes its going to be hard for me to step up KWIM?
Deanna