So, I wasn't the least bit gentle this morning. Please help!

[Love_Monkey]

My almost five year old has days where the house revolves around his moods and the fact that he terrorizes his sister and our cat. Today is one of those days.

Whenever Rachael is contentedly playing he will go a grab her toy away or other some such thing that of course gets an immediate reaction. I was helping him pick up his room and she was playing in his car box. He goes over and slams it shut and of course, she screams. I said to him, "Rachael is out of our way and playing happily. Please continue picking up your legos and leave her be." He turns from me and does it again. Again I say, "Marc, your sister is very happy right now. Just concentrate on your legos and let her play!" Again, he literally turns from me and slams it shut again. So, I calmly pick Rachael up and say, "Okay Marc, you can clean your room by yourself. I'll take Rachael out." Much screaming and crying ensues and finally he comes to me and apologizes. I said, "I forgive you Marc. You still need to clean your room." He says, "I want someone to help me," and I said, "Marc, I forgive you but you still have consequences to your actions. Right now I can't trust that you will treat your sister nicely so you will still have to finish picking up by yourself." So, he did. It only took about 5 minutes - we're organized so he knows where everything goes and it was almost done when I left.

So, later on he and Rachael are terrorizing our 10 year old cat. I stopped him and said, "Marc, she is an old cat and what you are doing is cruel! It is terrible for Jasmine that she has to live in a house where she is treated so mean. The other day you were wondering why she doesn't like you and you were trying to build trust by petting her. You are destroying all that trust when you chase her like this. Now stop!"

Ladies, he left the room to go find her. Not 15 seconds later I hear him chasing her again.

So now I am LIVID. I did some not so gentle things to get him into his room and have told him that I do not trust him to be near my baby or my cat and he is to spend the rest of his day in his room. He can come out for meals.

It's only 12:30 and I just don't think this is going to go well and I'm not even sure if it's really going to be all that effective.

In hindsight what I should have done was redirect him. "Stop chasing the cat! Choose something else to do (clay/sandbox/coloring/cars)," but I didn't.

There should absolutely be a consequence for completely ignoring me and hurting his sister and our cat but I don't know what it should be. I don't know... maybe keeping him in his room for one day and reminding him this is a trust issue is not such a bad idea. I just know it's going to be a horrible battle after about 45 minutes and I think the lesson will be lost. On the other hand, I've told him that is what's happening so how do I go back on what I've said without making him feel like what he did really wasn't all that bad but that mommy needs to be sorry. He's good at deflecting blame and making it all about what the other person did to him. If I let him out of his "sentence" early, how can I still teach him that trust is important and when you break it it's hard to earn back. How can he make ammends?

[ArmsOfLove]

there absolutely should be a consequence. It just doesn't need to be punitive ;)

With a 5yo who is being that aggressive I would move them IMMEDIATELY to the couch when they do something like that and they may get up when they are ready to make amends (not just apologize) and be part of the family team again.I would explain, at a neutral time, what we will be doing and why, Then I would remind him the first couple of times and then I would simply move him there and walk away, reminding if needed. If he asks if he can get up I'd simply say, "As soon as you are ready to make amends and rejoin the group."

I'd also be making sure he's getting enough sleep and considering dietary issues. But regardless of those things I'd be kind and FIRM about responding to them. What i hear you doing is ignoring them (commenting, but no action to your words) and he is pushing the boundary to find out where the limit really is. He needs a firm limit and that limit needs to be "kindness to others" and/or "we do not hurt with bodies or words".

[Jemma2]

I am very interesting in seeing the responses to this question.

ready to make amends (not just apologize)

What do you mean? In what way does he make amends?

[ArmsOfLove]

I think we have a sticky up about making amends, but it's making things right when you've wronged someone. If you use your hands to hurt you use them to give a gentle touch or help; if you use your words to hurt you use them to speak kindly. I have taught my children to ask the injured party what they can do to help make things right :)

[Love_Monkey]

Yes, I agree, it is not my intent to be punitive which is why I approached the "go to room" thing not as a "grounding" but as a loss of trust and this is what needs to happen because of that.

We usually make ammends by doing something nice. Find a toy Rachael can play with. Hug her if you've hurt her. Give the cat a scratch behind the ears when you've scared her.

Here's the thing though - we've been doing this for three years now and yes, it's getting better but I think that is more based on maturity not on any true repentance.

If I say to him, "Go sit there until you are ready to make ammends" he will IMMEDIATELY pop up and say, "Okay, I'm ready!" and go hug or give the toy back or whatever it is but then usually he will instantly do it again. I have a hard time saying to him, "No Marc, I think you need to think about it a little longer," because 1) It is judging his heart and 2) He will just start to scream, "BUT I AM READY TO MAKE AMMENDS!!" So, though I agree with you completely Crystal, I don't know how to practically teach my son this lesson.

[ArmsOfLove]

At five I would tell him that he now needs to make amends to me for speaking rudely to me.

[Love_Monkey]

:lol

You're right oh great Zen Master.

So, he's sleeping right now... do I let him out of his room and tell him to make ammends when he gets up?

[ArmsOfLove]

I would honestly not discuss it except to say "hey, I didn't like how things went this morning. Let's talk about some changes we need to make" and then I'd state what I will do different (talk about the couch, etc) and what I expect from him. If he can agree to working on this you can start your afternoon with a team atmosphere!

[Love_Monkey]

I'd also be making sure he's getting enough sleep and considering dietary issues. But regardless of those things I'd be kind and FIRM about responding to them. What i hear you doing is ignoring them (commenting, but no action to your words) and he is pushing the boundary to find out where the limit really is. He needs a firm limit and that limit needs to be "kindness to others" and/or "we do not hurt with bodies or words".


nak

I wanted to further comment on this. Sleep is sometimes an issue. He has given up his nap recently (2 months ago) and though it's better this way, somedays he is tired and that causes problems. He's napping now which means getting him to fall asleep tonight will be hard. He won't battle us but he will lay in bed until 10 or 11 until he can sleep. When he doesn't nap he's sleeping by 8 usually.

Marc has Sensory Integration Disorder and we've had him on Feingold for two years. I KNOW what food reactions look like in my son and today was not one. He's very spirited and intense and focused on his own desires. He has not developed empathy for others yet so he's a challenge for us. I've written about him at length in the past. He's made me a MUCH better parent though and I'm thankful for him.

I'm concerned though Crystal that you don't think I have action to follow up my words. What would have have suggested I do when he pushed her toybox shut? I told him my expectation and when he did not do it I removed Rachael and left him alone (NOT a reward for my little guy). Whenever he hurts someone with an object he INSTANTLY loses it - no chances. When he hits he is immediately removed from the situation. He wasn't hitting the cat today - he was chasing her while screaming.

I don't know... I guess I just want to explore what gave you that impression that I'm all words and no action with Marc.

[Love_Monkey]

I know I'm serial posting. Forgive me.

I know parenting is supposed to be hard work and that it can be exhausting but to deal with EACH AND EVERY infraction by putting him on the couch.... I don't know. Isn't it appropriate to simply remind him of the rules and then use the couch when he doesn't heed the warning? I frequently will remind him and when that doesn't work take action. Somedays that works great. Today is not one of those days.

[ArmsOfLove]

On intense days with my children I have had to say it and make it happen lots--and after a bit of that they feel safer about the boundaries and calm down again. Yes, I would sit him on the couch every single time--and my guess is that within a short time he'd be testing the boundaries a whole lot less. With these intense and spirited children if you miss a response they tend to think that the boundary is fuzzy or negotiable or moveable.

I'm concerned though Crystal that you don't think I have action to follow up my words. What would have have suggested I do when he pushed her toybox shut? I told him my expectation and when he did not do it I removed Rachael and left him alone (NOT a reward for my little guy). Whenever he hurts someone with an object he INSTANTLY loses it - no chances. When he hits he is immediately removed from the situation. He wasn't hitting the cat today - he was chasing her while screaming.
:hug It may have just been in how I read it, or I may have missed something.

Whenever Rachael is contentedly playing he will go a grab her toy away or other some such thing that of course gets an immediate reaction. You didn't mention how you respond to this so I read it as no reaction.

I was helping him pick up his room and she was playing in his car box. He goes over and slams it shut and of course, she screams. I said to him, "Rachael is out of our way and playing happily. Please continue picking up your legos and leave her be." He turns from me and does it again. Again I say, "Marc, your sister is very happy right now. Just concentrate on your legos and let her play!" Again, he literally turns from me and slams it shut again. So, I calmly pick Rachael up and say, "Okay Marc, you can clean your room by yourself. I'll take Rachael out."
I would have physically removed him from the situation at the first time he did it and not given him a chance to do it again. All of those words with a child who needs firm boundaries will not help if he's needing the boundary and not a reminder.

Much screaming and crying ensues and finally he comes to me and apologizes. I said, "I forgive you Marc. You still need to clean your room." He says, "I want someone to help me," and I said, "Marc, I forgive you but you still have consequences to your actions. Right now I can't trust that you will treat your sister nicely so you will still have to finish picking up by yourself." So, he did. It only took about 5 minutes - we're organized so he knows where everything goes and it was almost done when I left.
Trust is a hard concept for little children and losing trust can be devastating for some. I've worked lately at saying "I trust you--I trust you to behave the way you have been." So I might have told him that he needed to show me he was serious about cleaning his room rather than tormenting his sister and then I'd come and help him again.