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View Full Version : My 3rd grader got into a fight today at school - UPDATE at bottom of OP


lfane
02-23-2006, 03:30 PM
I am totally new to GBD and I need some help here. I picked up my 3rd grader today and he asked me if the principal called me. I said no and asked him why. He told me that he and another boy in his class got into a fight. Not a huge fight, but nonetheless a physical fight. I am not sure how to handle this.

A little more about the fight - he claims he did not start it and I do believe him. The fight started with him being pushed and if pushed, yes, he will push back. I need to let him know that this is not what I think is appropriate. At school he was sent to the principal's office and had to write "I will not fight. I will tell the teacher next time." a bunch of times. He (and the other child) had to do this and miss P.E. They were both told they would be suspended for 2 days next time this happened.

I have 2 main questions: What do you think the consequences should be? I've already taken away computer, tv and PS2 through the end of the weekend. I want to sit down and talk to him about this, but am not sure what to say.

Another question is about the school. I am upset that they did not call to tell me that this happened. He attends a very small private christian school (a total of 330 students from MDO to high school). He has only been there since January. One of the reasons why we choose to go with a small private christian school is to have excellent communication with the teacher and staff. During the interview, both my dh and I were told that if a incident occurred, we would be notified immediately. Again, I am so upset that they did not call me.

Thanks in advance for your help. I've been reading here like crazy and printing like crazy and trying to apply GBD to my life. I'm so glad that I found this website!

***Update***I got called from his teacher to come pick him up today. A girl in his school hit him in the face with a ball and he lost it. He tried to hit her, but thankfully the coach restrained him. I thought that he would get suspended for sure, but he didn't. We are supposed to talk this weekend about what he can do at school when he gets mad at someone. Any suggestions on this?

I am more upset today because now he is angry about something and I can't totally figure out what it is. When I was speaking with him, he told me it is because we moved to Texas. We moved here from Atlanta about 4 months ago. I really didn't know what to tell him besides Daddy got transferred here and we have to make the best of it.

snlmama
02-23-2006, 03:44 PM
First, I would call the principal tomorrow and ask why you weren't called and talk about how the school is helping prevent it. Are they keeping the boys seated apart for awhile, etc.

My son is in a public school w/ nearly 800 students. He hasn't been in a physical fight, but I know from talking to other parents that if someone physically hurts another student, the parent is called pretty soon after (def. by the end of the day) and informed of what happened. To me it's completely unacceptable that you were not called and I would want an explanation and reiterate that they need to call you immediately if anything like this happens again. :yes

Second, it sounds as if he was punished at school. (and, btw, this board doesn't advocate punitive discipline. It does advocate natural and logical consequences...) When my ds gets in trouble at school we talk about what happened and I keep "digging" until I'm sure I understand the whole story. Then, we talk about ways he could have handled the situation differently (like in your son's case - told the teacher, walked away, handled it verbally on his own). Then we talk about which of those options he will use if a similar situation arises.

One thing I will say that my way of handling this is that my son always tells me *immediately* if he's gotten in trouble at school. He knows whatever the teacher did/said was the consequence and now that he's home we will just help him figure out a better way to handle it so he doesn't get in trouble for the same thing again. :yes And he rarely gets in trouble for the same thing twice. :no2 His two best friends are afraid to tell their parents stuff that happens at school b/c they don't want to get in trouble - the parents are always complaining to me that the child told them they had a "great day," then they come home to a phone message from the teacher. :sad2

Desert Rose
02-23-2006, 04:01 PM
Second, it sounds as if he was punished at school.

ITA!

lfane
02-23-2006, 04:12 PM
First, I would call the principal tomorrow and ask why you weren't called and talk about how the school is helping prevent it. Are they keeping the boys seated apart for awhile, etc.

I will actually walk him into school - the principal is always there to greet the children.


(and, btw, this board doesn't advocate punitive discipline. It does advocate natural and logical consequences...)

Does taking away computer, tv & PS2 count as punitive discipline? Sorry, I'm still learning here!!!

Beyond Blessed
02-23-2006, 04:56 PM
LeAnn, don't be sorry! :hug It's wonderful that you're here and trying to find gentler, more positive ways to raise your children! You'll learn a lot about natural (something that happens naturally - cause and effect) and logical consequences (when my daughter writes on the wall, she must clean it up). Anyway, I agree with snlmama in regards to the statement that our children are more likely to come to us when they know they can trust our reaction to not be angry. My sons are really starting to come to me with deep thoughts and talk about temptations now that they know I won't over-react (which I've sooooo been known for). They will also tell the truth when I ask what happened in a certain situation. We're fairly new to GBD and I've been blessed to see this change in our family.


:hug to you!

lfane
02-23-2006, 05:45 PM
Thankfully he is not afraid to come to me with things, even though I have had a history of getting angry with him in the past. I was thinking that if this had happened to me when I was his age, I would not have told my parents. So, I have made a point not to overreact to the situation, but it still is really upseting to me.

OpalsMom
02-23-2006, 06:09 PM
Does taking away computer, tv & PS2 count as punitive discipline? Sorry, I'm still learning here!!!


Here's a nice link by Jane Nelson about consequences:
http://www.positivediscipline.com/articles_teacher/NO%20MORE%20LOGICAL%20CONSEQUENCES.html

If you're thinking about whether something is punitive, it helps to ask yourself what it's supposed to achieve. If the answer is "It's supposed to make him feel bad", well, then you're punishing him. If the answer is "The computer and the TV and the PS2 all make him hyped up and likely to fight", then it's a logical consequence aimed at helping him do better, but maybe you want to look at more global limits. Or if the answer is "I'm going to use that time to work with him and teach him other strategies", that's another way it could be a logical consequence.

lfane
02-23-2006, 07:05 PM
Does taking away computer, tv & PS2 count as punitive discipline? Sorry, I'm still learning here!!!


Here's a nice link by Jane Nelson about consequences:
http://www.positivediscipline.com/articles_teacher/NO%20MORE%20LOGICAL%20CONSEQUENCES.html

If you're thinking about whether something is punitive, it helps to ask yourself what it's supposed to achieve. If the answer is "It's supposed to make him feel bad", well, then you're punishing him. If the answer is "The computer and the TV and the PS2 all make him hyped up and likely to fight", then it's a logical consequence aimed at helping him do better, but maybe you want to look at more global limits. Or if the answer is "I'm going to use that time to work with him and teach him other strategies", that's another way it could be a logical consequence.


I think I need to get that book!

Marmee
02-24-2006, 04:53 PM
In general, what is behind the outbursts? Is is that he really is angry about the move and needs to find a way of having those feeling validated, brought out and examined, dealt with and then move on? And/or is he being picked on at school? Do any of the other children pick on him on purpose? Just thought you may want to check on those things as well. (You probably already have :)) I just posted about aggression in my much younger son. Do you mean this keep going on? :giggle Just kidding! I am working hard to try and see what the problem is behind my own son's eyes. Sometimes it can be difficult for me to see things from his perspective. I was just remembering school days and the day my brother got into a fight. He was defending my sister and I. But, sometimes the school doesn't see things that way! I remember feeling so sorry for him. My sister and I thought from that moment on that he was the greatest! At any rate, I am not saying your son was fighting for noble purposes. I only meant that every story has two sides. I think my brother was in 3rd grade then too! Must be a tough age! Hugs to you and to your son! I hope you can get everything worked out and become closer in the process!

lfane
02-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Yesterday, I think that he was definetely being picked on. Today, he got hit in the face with a ball. I think that he thought he was being picked on. He is a very sensitive little guy and has a hard time with others not being so nice to him.

Radosny Matka
02-24-2006, 07:44 PM
:hug2 Poor little guy. It really sounds like he is having a harder time transitioning to TX than he is letting on. Telling him to "make the best of it" is only going to drive those feelings deeper. He needs lots of cuddles, reassurement, and reflecting on feelings (it is really hard to make new friends, I miss Altanta too. what was your favorite part of Atlanta. what's your favorite part of TX. what's your least favorite part, I bet you miss your old friends. making new friends is hard, etc etc etc) Okay, so some of that wasn't reflecting, but you need to find a way to make a crack in that door. Once you get your foot in, you will be able to get to the bottom of what is going on. Is he not making new friends??? I highly recommend "how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" by Faber and Mazlish.

mom2threePKs
02-25-2006, 06:38 AM
I just wanted to echo what Radosny Matka said about the move. The only way you are really going to deal with the aggression is to address the feelings that are fueling it. When we moved three years ago (also to TX) my older dd went through a very loud, verbal transition. Onc I realized what was behind it we really worked on making friends and forming connections. We invited a different little girl from her class over to play after school each week for several weeks. Let me tell you it is not within my comfort zone to call up parents I've never met before but I did it and it helped dd feel connected and less like the outsider. My middle dd didn't say a word about how she felt about the move (she was only three) and a year later we realized she'd lost 80% of her hair as a stress reaction. So sometimes the loud, physical types are a blessing. At least you know to address it!

Magan

lfane
02-25-2006, 07:08 AM
Good idea about inviting friends over. We've only had one boy over - and it was the one he got into a fight with! :jawdrop

ArmsOfLove
02-26-2006, 01:25 PM
Well, what you've done is punishment so I wouldn't encourage those things. I would consider that the school took care of it. In an ineffectual way imo, but it was an issue on their watch and they handled it. I don't believe there is a reason to add more to it.

I agree that something else is bothering him and I'd focus my energies on making sure he trusts me and feels safe and try to get him to share what is going on. Is there a way for your volunteer at his school and observe for yourself what is going on?

My concern is that he doesn't seem to feel safe in the school environment :( He doesn't have the self control and maturity right now to respond appropriately to physical interactions and I'd say it's important for him to not have to right now. Maybe talking to the teacher about what he's going through and problem solving some ideas with her.

TulipMama
02-26-2006, 07:03 PM
I want to echo what the others have said about transitions. . . Kids are a remarkable combination of being resilient to change, and also deeply impacted by change. Because you're older, you've probably experienced moves and understand there is a process and period of adjustment, that it is a mix of scary and exciting, and that eventually you'll probably feel settled.

I remember being 7 years old, living in Alaska, and having these heart-rending, very full feelings of missing and longing for my grandmother. It was very consuming when it came over me. At the same time, I was a pretty normal kid and have a lot of happy memories from that time. Anyway, remembering how much that move impacted me has helped me remember that, oh yeah, my kids are probably feeling a lot of different, intense emotions with our move. (We arrived back in Florida last April.)

We've also had some struggles with school and learning appropriate ways of dealing with other kids. Does your third grader have an approachable teacher? Guidance counselor? I've really appreciated the guidance counselor at our boys' school--and have met with her about issues each of my kids have had this year. (4th, 1st and Kindergarten.) I think we made a poor choice about one of the issues related to my kindergartenr, but for the rest of the issues that have come up (and there have been several!) it's been really great to have the guidance counselor and teachers working with us.

Joanne
02-28-2006, 06:10 AM
My first response is a red flag response. The combination of "Christian" and "Texas" lead me to ask if you have made certain spanking and physical punishment is ***not*** a part of the school's discipline policy? I'm a Christian in Texas, and the pervasive assumption here is that everyone spanks. Spanking is still *very* legal and used in schools, even public ones.



I have 2 main questions: What do you think the consequences should be? I've already taken away computer, tv and PS2 through the end of the weekend. I want to sit down and talk to him about this, but am not sure what to say.

I want to reiterate what's been said. Taking away those privileges is arbitrary and punitive. That said, screen time here has a direct bearing on behavior, so modifying screen time is frequently a part of readjustment in routine when one is needed.

Another question is about the school. I am upset that they did not call to tell me that this happened. He attends a very small private christian school (a total of 330 students from MDO to high school). He has only been there since January. One of the reasons why we choose to go with a small private christian school is to have excellent communication with the teacher and staff. During the interview, both my dh and I were told that if a incident occurred, we would be notified immediately. Again, I am so upset that they did not call me.

Hm. Trust me, I'm not inclined to give the benefit of doubt to educational institions. ;) However, having owned and operated a couple of daycares, I do know from experience that it is sometimes a fine line. It would have been cumbersome, difficult and counter productive of me to tell each parent every day about the normal, common (and even physical) interactions of the children.

I also believe that if we allow our children to be under the authority of other adults or institutional structure, we need to allow that authority to function. It sounds like the school handled it. I would focus on proactive discipline at home, helping your child to process the changes the move has created.

Joanne
02-28-2006, 06:10 AM
My first response is a red flag response. The combination of "Christian" and "Texas" lead me to ask if you have made certain spanking and physical punishment is ***not*** a part of the school's discipline policy? I'm a Christian in Texas, and the pervasive assumption here is that everyone spanks. Spanking is still *very* legal and used in schools, even public ones.



I have 2 main questions: What do you think the consequences should be? I've already taken away computer, tv and PS2 through the end of the weekend. I want to sit down and talk to him about this, but am not sure what to say.

I want to reiterate what's been said. Taking away those privileges is arbitrary and punitive. That said, screen time here has a direct bearing on behavior, so modifying screen time is frequently a part of readjustment in routine when one is needed.

Another question is about the school. I am upset that they did not call to tell me that this happened. He attends a very small private christian school (a total of 330 students from MDO to high school). He has only been there since January. One of the reasons why we choose to go with a small private christian school is to have excellent communication with the teacher and staff. During the interview, both my dh and I were told that if a incident occurred, we would be notified immediately. Again, I am so upset that they did not call me.

Hm. Trust me, I'm not inclined to give the benefit of doubt to educational institions. ;) However, having owned and operated a couple of daycares, I do know from experience that it is sometimes a fine line. It would have been cumbersome, difficult and counter productive of me to tell each parent every day about the normal, common (and even physical) interactions of the children.

I also believe that if we allow our children to be under the authority of other adults or institutional structure, we need to allow that authority to function. It sounds like the school handled it. I would focus on proactive discipline at home, helping your child to process the changes the move has created.

lfane
02-28-2006, 11:39 AM
My first response is a red flag response. The combination of "Christian" and "Texas" lead me to ask if you have made certain spanking and physical punishment is ***not*** a part of the school's discipline policy? I'm a Christian in Texas, and the pervasive assumption here is that everyone spanks. Spanking is still *very* legal and used in schools, even public ones.


Wow! This school does not spank under any conditions. I had no idea about this - we've only been here for 4 months.

By the way, He seems to be doing much better in school these past couple of days. I hope it stays that way.

lfane
02-28-2006, 11:39 AM
My first response is a red flag response. The combination of "Christian" and "Texas" lead me to ask if you have made certain spanking and physical punishment is ***not*** a part of the school's discipline policy? I'm a Christian in Texas, and the pervasive assumption here is that everyone spanks. Spanking is still *very* legal and used in schools, even public ones.


Wow! This school does not spank under any conditions. I had no idea about this - we've only been here for 4 months.

By the way, He seems to be doing much better in school these past couple of days. I hope it stays that way.