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View Full Version : Questions on CC and "you hit you sit" UPDATE Please help. I feel desperate.


Radosny Matka
02-12-2006, 09:53 PM
We have sort of had a CC for a while with Nathaniel. It's a bean bag chair in our computer room. Whille it isn't exactly in our main living area and is a bit out of the way, it's the area that works best for us. We do spend a lot of time in that room (we have a bunch of toys in there). My question is, how do I help him realize that it's a good area to be in? Sometimes he will sit there for a while and actually calm down. Most of the time he is in there for a milisecond and then comes out saying "he's calmed down." Usually he isn't. I just feel like it has become a tug of war between us and it's losing it's purpose. Should I start sitting in there with him more?

I am having the same problem with you hit you sit (or in our case, you threaten to hit, you need to sit to calm down (maybe I should be using the CC instead???). Our sitting spot is on our steps. Again, he sits for a milisecond and then gets up. He will apologize and hug when asked, but I feel like it's more of an apology just so he can get up. I cannot get him to sit there. I have tried bringing him right back, but again, he just gets up. I have gotten MAD at him before and plunked him back down, and then he just cries. :rolleyes

I really need to do something about these disrespect issues we are having with him. I have been trying very hard and focusing on myself and I did really well this weekend being respecful and calm to others. I have been refusing to engage with Nathaniel and argue with him. I will just ignore him. I am realllly tired of him telling me (meanly and loudly) that he is going to kick me, hit me, punch me, pinch me, pull my hair, etc every time he gets upset. It has gotten realllllly old. We had a horrible, embarrasing moment in the mall this evening. We walked through a store with him yelling that he was going to hit me and that he didn't like me. :mad I actually just walked ahead of him and ignored him because if I knew if I said anything, it woudn't be pretty. This behaviour is totally unacceptable. I'm not sure how we got to this place in the first place (well, I know a little of how, but not all of it), and what to do to fix it. I feel like a floundering fish!

Joanne
02-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Should I start sitting in there with him more?

I am having the same problem with you hit you sit (or in our case, you threaten to hit, you need to sit to calm down (maybe I should be using the CC instead???). Our sitting spot is on our steps. Again, he sits for a milisecond and then gets up. He will apologize and hug when asked, but I feel like it's more of an apology just so he can get up. I cannot get him to sit there. I have tried bringing him right back, but again, he just gets up. I have gotten MAD at him before and plunked him back down, and then he just cries.

I think you might have turned both ideas into a power struggle and a punishment. He would likely repsond better to more coaching and more of your involvement.

I would "use" the cc as a space to regroup, get centered, do better. I would not designate a space for you hit, you sit, but instead, remove a child from play who does hit or threaten. The natural/logical consequence to threatening behavior is space away from people. Not a certain amount of time on the stairs, yk? Instead, engage with him on role playing, how to do better next time, etc. Spend more time teaching him skills of prevention than in trying to have him "get it".

It might help to re-read some positive discipline stuff. I know that when I turn adversarial in my mind, things get "bad" around here and it becomes a downward spiral. Their behavior gets worse and I begin to think they have to *suffer* to learn.







I really need to do something about these disrespect issues we are having with him. I have been trying very hard and focusing on myself and I did really well this weekend being respecful and calm to others. I have been refusing to engage with Nathaniel and argue with him. I will just ignore him. I am realllly tired of him telling me (meanly and loudly) that he is going to kick me, hit me, punch me, pinch me, pull my hair, etc every time he gets upset. It has gotten realllllly old. We had a horrible, embarrasing moment in the mall this evening. We walked through a store with him yelling that he was going to hit me and that he didn't like me. I actually just walked ahead of him and ignored him because if I knew if I said anything, it woudn't be pretty. This behaviour is totally unacceptable. I'm not sure how we got to this place in the first place (well, I know a little of how, but not all of it), and what to do to fix it. I feel like a floundering fish!

Have you tried a period of swift, stern and immediate reactions to this? One threat or insult and you take him home? Dramatic, but logical consequences to show how unacceptable it is and that you will protect your body and emotional boundaries?

Radosny Matka
02-13-2006, 11:08 AM
Thanks, Joanne. Good points. I haven't taken him right home when in public, but that's a good idea (he didn't ride the train again on the way out). We usually don't have issues in public tho, it's a home. What swift, stern and immediate reactions can I do at home?

Sandollar
02-13-2006, 12:06 PM
:popcorn we're working on the same issues here. I wanted to add a question if you dont mind, how do I do stern without using an angry voice? and not yelling obviously ;)

blessedMom
02-13-2006, 04:25 PM
:popcorn

Radosny Matka
02-13-2006, 07:54 PM
Okay, I feel so lost. I have zero skills for dealing with this issue. In my family, I would not have dreamed of behaving in this way. I would probably have been spanked and grounded. I am glad that Nathaniel does not fear me, yet he needs to respect me too. Here are 2 examples from today:

This afternoon he wanted something. I cannot remember what it was now. I said no and stated the reason. He told me "well I'm going to hit you." I said, "you are angry with mommy. You may go hit the bean bag chair all you want." He said, "No, I want to hit you." He then proceeded to call me a schlumrod. Since that is a made up thing, I told him that "schlumrod's cannot speak. I will not speak to you again until you calm down." He tried to get me going and once it didn't work, he gave up and all was fine for a while.

Then this evening we went back to the mall. I really need a good bra, and dh wanted to just get it over with while we have the $. We tried yesterday but most everything was closed because of the snow. So we go to the store and all is well. It takes longer than expected so dh says, "let's just eat here." Nathaniel wanted to ride the toy train. It was on the other side of the mall so we said we would take him there after we eat. The food court ATM was broken, so we went to CVS to get some $. On our way out to the store, Nathaniel says he wants to ride the train. We remind him that we will take him after we eat. He hits me. I tell him, "you hit mommy. there will be no train tonight." He responds by spitting at me and yelling. :hunh :banghead I cannot believe it - a true spit that landed on my shirt. I looked at dh and said, "he spit on me. I cannot believe he spit on me." I was horrified and shocked, yet amazingly calm (which is actually a huge accomplishment for me). I suggested to dh that we go home and eat leftovers. He said, "we shouldn't all have to suffer because of him." What was I to say? So we headed towards the food and Nathaniel just SCREAMED. Dh agreed and we went back to the car. The entire way there he was saying, "i don't like you. I'm going to hit you in the face. I'm going to leave you at the mall. I'm going to take your baby (meaning Patrick)away." I don't know why he talks like this. We do not hit him. That is one thing we actually do right. I don't know why he uses such violent words. The baby feel asleep in the van and Nathaniel screamed at us and woke him up. The baby cried the rest of the way home. We got home and I put the baby right to sleep. Dh fed Nathaniel. By the time the baby was asleep, it was bedtime for Nathaniel. When he asked for a story I told him not tonight. I was too tired, had to reheat dinner for daddy and I, and that I don't wish to be around someone who was calling me such horrible names. He cried and told me I was "breaking his heart." I hugged him until he calmed down. Maybe I should have just read him the story and maybe that reconnecting would have been good. Honestly I was just emotionally done by then. I went and prayed over him once he was asleep.

So, please, what do I do? I can handle taking him home when he acts up in public. Up until these past few days, we have never, ever encountered a situation like this. :doh I don't know what to make of it all. What do I do when he acts up at home? Honestly, please, someone give me some scripts to say. How do I teach him to do better next time? I'm not really sure what he should do that is more appropriate - stamp feet, tell me his is angry and then go to CC, hit a bean bag, throw a basket of soft toys? Maybe I should ask him for his input? What are the skills for prevention?

I'm so sorry for dragging on and on about this. I feel so lost. I love my little guy so much and I want to do what is right for him. Like I've said already, I have no good examples to go on. I don't want to make the same mistakes my parents did, but I feel like we are heading in the wrong direction. :cry

Shawn
02-13-2006, 08:29 PM
:hugheart :popcorn

AmyDoll
02-13-2006, 09:19 PM
:hugheart
Sara, that sounds really rough. I can't imagine the shock that must be going through your mind! I'm actually sitting here with the Ames Your 4 Year Old (I buy them as I find them at the thrift store - so this is my latest) Anyway - the book reminds me that name calling, violence in language (even profanity!), and exaggeration are all really normal for this age. Not that you want it to continue - but that it's Normal.
Um, actually - the more I flip through this book looking for words of wisdom - the more I think I should send it to you? Do you have it already? I can send it out tomorrow.
XOXO Amy

MarynMunchkins
02-14-2006, 06:31 AM
:hug We deal with a lot of this with Doug.

Re: "I want to hit you."

I would have simply responded, "You must feel angry if you want to hit me. Sometimes when I get angry, I want to hit too. But hitting hurts, and isn't okay in our family. You need to use your words, and take a break. Say 'I'm REALLY angry.' "

You have to teach him that it's okay to be angry and upset and still not be violent. Which, frankly, is harder than it sounds, or we wouldn't all be here learning how to be gentle. ;)

Re: the mall

He obviously needed to be taken you. Y'all could have just taken food home and eaten it there. Helping one member of the family calm down and cope with reality isn't the same as punishing the rest of the family. :hug

OpalsMom
02-14-2006, 11:41 AM
So I don't have a 4-year old and I'm responding because it reminds me of somebody else, always dangerous. Feel free to ignore me.

But I hear something like what I see my SIL doing. We're in the car, me, DD, and SIL in the back seat. DD pushes SIL and says "Go 'way!" I see a tired baby who feels out-of-control and who's used to having more space. She wants to go to sleep. SIL sees DD being disrespectful and mean. SIL reacts to disrespect. Bad things happen. I react to need for control and space. Good things happen. (SIL did learn from the experience; she's trying to be gentle but comes from a household which wasn't, and sometimes her reflexes are unfortunate.)

Even though he's 4, it doesn't sound to me like it's about respect. It sounds like it's about finding ways to get big reactions from you, and it's about having trouble dealing with his big feelings. If you can get to a place where you think "This is not acceptable behavior, and we will find a way to stop it, but it is not about me, it is about him, and it is not about him being morally flawed and growing up to be a criminal, it's about him being 4, and needing to learn things about relationships and self-control" that might take a lot of the desperation out of it. Desperation makes it hard to deal with the situation.

Jenne
02-14-2006, 12:43 PM
:hugheart

No advice--I wish I had the experience to give some just because you sound so much like you could use it. Prayin' God will give you patience and help you with this latest challenge.

Mamatoto
02-14-2006, 01:08 PM
Was that two evenings at the mall close together? I really would not expect much less from a child, if it was. As adults (for the most par, unless we have sensory issues ourselves) we can take things like bright lights, different people, stores, advertisements, trains, etc. and somewhat compartmentalize them. As children, and imitative beings, they take everything around them into themselves and into their senses. All of the stuff that I just mentionened went into his little body and eventually came out as agression and spit! :( :( What would you normally have been doing at home during this time? It was near the end of the day, it was probably a really hard time for him to be there having to process all the sensory stuff. We actually only go to the mall maybe twice a year and never in the evening when the kids are winding down.

About the CC, in order for it to be a peaceful resting place for him what changes can you make? Is there clutter/chaos around with the toys in there? What colors are around? In order for it to be self soothing you will have to teach him what that means. When he is having a hard time simply go there yourself and lay down. Breathe deep, pick up a book, or something else calming. You will have gotten his interest and after a few times of this he may do it himself, and in the process you have learned some self soothing measures yourself in order to keep everyone calm in the midst of the storm. :-)

ArmsOfLove
02-14-2006, 04:39 PM
Okay, a few thoughts:

1) the comfort corner is a place to calm down and if he doesn't understand how to calm down on his own then, yes, I would encourage you to go there with him.

2) you hit, you sit, is a way of having him removed immediately so that you can deal with the injured person and he can calm down. My children are allowed to stand up when they are ready to make amends--that may be more worthwhile to focus on than an apology.

3) rude behavior in public means they stop or we leave immediately. Even if we just go to the car and then try again, but the reason is to retain our dignity in public--all of us!

4) I think that he's giving you very real messages that you are missing because you're hung up on the mode of delivery. What do you think would happen if you reflected, "You really want to hit me. You are so angry!" And let him continue with you listening instead of trying to get him to stop. His delivery is immature and disrespectful, but until you know what he's really trying to convey you can't really help him with a better script. I would suggest that "you are angry" is not the same as "you want to hit me." He's REALLY angry! And the thing that strikes me is that he is *saying* what he wants to do but he isn't doing it. He's not hitting you--so the key is to hear his really really big feelings and let him know! I tend to verbalize *how* angry I am in very big pictures. "I'm so angry I want to throw everyone into a room and lock the door so that I can have some quiet!" That's now what I want to do--that's how angry I am. See the difference?

Radosny Matka
02-14-2006, 08:46 PM
Thanks, everyone, for your wonderful, helpful responses. We had a terrific day today! :tu We woke up and about 2 minutes after getting out of bed we had our first episode. Patrick was playing at the train table. Nathaniel told me "he's in my spot." I said, "he was there first, play on the other side." He shouted, "I am going to hit the baby." My response (this was before I read on here), "that is not acceptable. come sit on my bed while I get dressed." I carried him in and he said something nasty and threw a pillow at me. I took him downstairs and put him in the rocking chair and told him to come back up when he was ready to treat me better. He cried for about 3 minutes, then came back up and was fine. Now maybe I didn't handle that the best that I could have, but it was over fast and there was no arguing between us and he was actually calm when he did come back upstairs.

Our second (and only other episode - huge improvement) of the day happened in the car. I can't even remember what it was about. He got upset over something, and said something nasty to me. I said something along the lines of, "Wow, you are so angry you want to hit me. Hitting is not allowed in our family. You can stomp your feet or shout." He went "ARRGGGG." I said, "wow, you are REALLY angry." He said, "ARRGGGG." Me, "you are furious." (the game had started now) He said with a bit of a giggle, "ARRGGGGG." Me, "you are fire spitting mad." And that was it! It was over just like that! :dance

So, thanks everyone. I think I finally have everything straight in my head. He is just, and I mean just like me! Since our personalities are so similar, I think I need to look at this in a different way. What would help ME feel better, because that is just about the same thing that is going to help him. I am going to save this entire post to a word file so I can read it when I need to remind myself of these things. I feel ready to handle this with love and understanding. :heart

MarynMunchkins
02-15-2006, 06:04 AM
:tu

Katherine
02-16-2006, 11:27 AM
Most of the time he is in there for a milisecond and then comes out saying "he's calmed down." Usually he isn't. I just feel like it has become a tug of war between us and it's losing it's purpose.

He will apologize and hug when asked, but I feel like it's more of an apology just so he can get up. I cannot get him to sit there. I have tried bringing him right back, but again, he just gets up. I have gotten MAD at him before and plunked him back down, and then he just cries.

I've gone through the same thing with my 4yo... and he is exhibiting the same types of behaviors... right down to yelling when I redirct his hitting "I don't want to hit [whatever], I want to hit YOU!" :/ It's frustrating. :hugheart I've had the same trouble with him not staying put while I tend to the injured 2yo, change the baby's diaper, etc. Like Joanne mentioned, I was using it more as a punishment than not. :blush What has worked better for me is to think in terms of changing his activity... finding an *activity* that will help him calm down. I think he views it less as a punishment, and I'm not so tempted to use it as punishment when I approach it that way. (and it works better for us, anyhow :) ) He still offers protests, "I don't want ANY AC-TIVITIES!" or "I don't want to do ANYTHING!" but it's usually short-lived, and sometimes he surprises me by asking for something specific like play-doh, or just saying "ok" when I tell him to take a break and do X.

I've actually been working on an organized plan to address some of these issues.... specific "to dos" and so on. When I started putting it together the thing that kept coming back to was being more connected and more playful (two things I have to really work at :O ) So I brainstormed some ways to improve on that before I even considered strategies for preventing and disciplining. Just in the last week, I've seen that the days I succeed at connectedness are automatically a few degrees better. If I add prevention (like minimizing tv time, not spending too much time on my own "stuff", and providing LOTS of structure), we do even better! Then the disciplinary events are much more low key and way easier to handle. It's a daily challenge, and probably will be for a long time. It takes ALL my energy and then some to keep us on track, but hopefully I'll get better at it with time. :O

wombmate3
02-17-2006, 09:13 AM
Just in the last week, I've seen that the days I succeed at connectedness are automatically a few degrees better. If I add prevention (like minimizing tv time, not spending too much time on my own "stuff", and providing LOTS of structure), we do even better! Then the disciplinary events are much more low key and way easier to handle. It's a daily challenge, and probably will be for a long time. It takes ALL my energy and then some to keep us on track, but hopefully I'll get better at it with time. :O

:amen
I have to second this! My ds is also almost 4, and we have our days. He has a bend to the dramatic, although we don't have the hitting issue (as much) anymore. The other thing I have noticed is how my attitude seriously influences his. If I get up in the morning and have some 'me' time to get what I need to get done done, and I get breakfast started and the laundry going...in other words if I do the things that I need to do to have a good day personally and not feel rushed and put out....I have noticed we tend to have good days. When I get dragged out of bed by hungry kids who have already been in the kitchen and tried to 'make breakfast' and I am cranky and short with everyone then we tend to have days when Gabe isn't listening and is talking back and is basically hard to live with as well.

The other thing I had to add was that I have started something new with him. When he wakes up 'on the wrong side of the bed' and we are having a bad day, I make sure to reflect for him (Crystal, you finally pounded that into my head :yes). I tell him "It's ok to have a bad day and feel grumpy, but you may not xyz! Would you like to cuddle in bed and tell me what is bothering you or would you like to spend some time in your room reading?" Not to say that that always works or that it worked right away, but I would say 7 times out of 10 he is receptive, and I have stopped modeling that HIM being in a bad mood is unacceptable but ME being in a bad mood is ok, kwim?

When I read your OP I thought "BIG FEELINGS!" He mode of delivery stinks, but he is trying hard to tell you something! :hug :heart