Chores and Kids--thinking about long-term reactions

[Katherine]

ok, so there's a discussion about FlyLady in another forum that turned into talking about being satisfied with our OWN standards of cleanliness, and not feeling pressured to live up to someone else's (like our mother's). ;) :shifty I think it's interesting how people react to the standard of cleanliness in their homes of origin--some are very particular about cleanliness b/c their parents were... Others felt pressured and go in the opposite direction once they are independent--refusing to hold themselves to *any* standard of cleanliness out of a sense of.... I dunno what... rebellion? relief?

I know a couple in real life where she takes the perspective that her kids are more important than the house so she just does what *she* considers absolutely essential.. . and it really, really bothers her dh b/c he grew up with a super neat/clean Mom, and wants his wife to maintain a higher standard of cleanliness and organization. She resents not only being compared to MIL, but also the that fact that her dh would like her to do more, and you can imagine the tension. :/

We had to do chores growing up... both personal responsibility type stuff and contributing to the upkeep of household needs (like vacuuming, washing dishes, folding clothes, cleaning bathrooms, etc.) :shrug I think it prepared us for real life and taught us necessary skills, and I am already involving my boys in clean up activities. :shrug I take the perspective that we all contribute to the messes and we should all contribute to the cleaning (on an age appropriate level of course). Also, I don't want my boys to be that husband who has never washed a dish, laundered his own clothes, cleaned a toilet, etc and expects his wife to do it all--all the time. :td On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if my Mom created a lot of stress in her own life and missed out on a lot of joy by always working her butt off to have a clean house, and now... she has some health problems that force her to either hurt her body in order to maintain her standard (which she does semi-frequently), or fall short of her cleanliness standard and be miserable.

I know I am horrified/humiliated and just sick-to-my-stomach-upset when someone sees my house in a state of mess, and I get really stressed about cleaning up everything when I know someone is coming. I've made great strides to let things go in recent years :O (the reality of having preschoolers) and I have made a point of letting my kids have their own space, belongings, etc. in every room because they *LIVE* here. That was the one and only complaint that I had about my Mom's "standards"--we did not have any places in the common area of the house where we were allowed to set books, purses, papers, shoes, etc. Everything of ours was restricted to our rooms, which we were also required to keep clean, so it really felt like it was THEIR house and they were just graciously allowing us to live there as long as we met certain conditions. :/

So, this is a bit of a ramble, but.. thoughts?

How did YOU react to the high or low cleaning/organization standards of your childhood home?
What do you require of your kids, and how do you hope it will affect them as adults?
What steps do you take to maintain the balance between real life (people actually *live* here and people are more important than things/stuff/housework) while still satisfying what you consider to be necessary requirements for a presentable and orderly home?

[milkmommy]

My childhood: We were required to help out when ever Mom asked us, but we had no chores. Its was really confusing because on one hand my mother would yell and scream because noone put dishes away but IF I said Mom go sit down and let me do dishes she refused :shrug or I'd come home from school and get lectured because my mother cleaned out my closet and all the work she did . I'm not meaning my room was trashed and she finially got sick and cleaned it but like she packed up winter clothes and reorganzed stuff like a weekend project but she'd choose when I was at school to do it :shrug. As a result I tend to like a clean house and feel better when I kep it clean but often fail to follow through and get annoyed when my way isn't done. :shifty
What I work on and hope to teach my children..
1) That homekeeping is something to take pride in and can be enjoyable
2) that they will have certain set responsiblities and an understanding that we also work as a family to get things done
3) That the boys in the family will learn basic skills like doing laundry cooking skills just like the girls
4) To complete the entire process of something started ( cook a meal clean it up etc)
5) To consider the work of others (offer to help clean up to lend a hand etc..)
Deanna

[Jillian]

My situation was much like yours...none of our stuff was allowed to be in the common areas of the house. It had to be in our room and although my room got messy, I always was getting yelled at to clean it. Every once in a while I'd get punished until it was cleaned up. I had chores daily and twice weekly ones. I hated doing because it was mostly a waste of time - everything was already immaculate! And who cared if there was a "fleck" on the floor?!? My mom could not rest if there was a tiny little dot of whatever anywhere! We had to crawl around on the floor and pick up any "fleck" in her sight. Sounds wierd typing it out, but really we did!

When we were really little (under 10) we had a toy closet, and it would get messier and messier until my mom would clean it herself while she screamed and yelled that we needed to keep it clean. Meanwhile, the rest of the house was spotless. My mom kept a meticulous home, it was like living in a magazine. Very uncomfortable. She had OCD and it was very difficult to live with her. Her standards were way too high and really harmful to our relationship.

Now, my house...honestly, it's usually messy. Something always needs to be done - dishes, laundry, bathrooms, mopping...something! But I have four kids home with me all day and we LIVE here. We eat in the living room, color and do play doh at the dining room table, and play games on the floor. BUT I do what my mom did witht the playroom...let it get a mess and then every once in a while clean like crazy while yelling into thin air that no one cleans up after themselves :O. I am a perfectionist and I struggle to stick to my routines (which are pretty simple...I guess the same idea as FlyLady), but when I do, it's sooo much better.

When I only had one kid, my house was like my moms. I cleaned the whole house every day. Counted each and every toy, put it in it's "home" and didn't sleep until it was "perfect". Then I had my second and had ppd and still waiting to catch up, lol!

I don't require chores of my kids, but ask for help when I need it. Some of my kids are more prone to helping than others. But I feel like it's my house, I get to decide how clean it is kept so it's my responsibility to keep it at that level. My daughter actually does dishes, laundry, sets the table, straightens up without me asking. My son barely brings his dishes to the sink when he's finished with them! My dh will come home from work and put the dishes in the dwasher if he thinks they need to be there, he also will throw in a load of wash or vaccuum if he feels it necessary. He doesn't yell or put me down. (For that, I am so grateful!) And it actually motivates me to do it more for him, where as if he did yell about it, I'd be likely to not do it when I normally would...I'm working on that attitude :/

Basically, we are a family and we work together to get done what needs to be done. And if it doesn't get done, oh well!

[domesticzookeeper]

Well...

my dad was the only child of a single mom who cleaned houses for a living, and during her teenage years, my mom took responsibility to clean up after her dad (widower) and three older brothers.

My parents are both neat freaks. I am a neatfreak, and my little brother and sister are well on their way :giggle

For awhile as I was growing up, I resented how much mom cleaned the house, because it seemed like she went a little overboard. She's definitely lightened up as we kids have gotten older. But for the most part, the "cleanliness factor" in our household was rarely a forced issue. It was just a fact of life. And like I said, we children have begun to adopt our parents standards, but not because we were necessarily made to.

The two major rules of our household are:

1) You take care of your own stuff. You make a mess, you clean the mess, and anything that's yours goes where it belongs.

2) We all help around the house. Everyone has assigned chores, and when extra help is asked for, you do it because we are a family and we all pitch in to make things work.

Everything else kind of falls into place after that. My 14yo brother has been known to clear off the table without being asked. My 11yo sister voluntarily cleans her room. Yeah, we're probably a little more compulsive about cleaning than the average family (I can't even relax in a sloppy environment), but it's not like it's this hugely negative thing for us. It is what it is. Like so many other things, we've naturally followed the behavior our parents have modelled.

[Mother of Sons]

My mom really wanted things clean but she was never home so the house wasn't really totally picked up. We had chores but they were haphazardly enforced. Cleaning was mostly done on Saturdays. All day long on Saturday we all had to clean. I hated that and vowed never to clean on a weekend. We got yelled at about our rooms alot.

My kids don't have chores and I don't expect they ever will. I don't want to have chore charts or get frustrated or angry when someone doesn't do their chore. Chores are bad and icky, no one wants to do them. They are expected to contribute and do what I ask and the majority of the time they do without complaint. Even when they complain (which is rare) they still do it, they just tell me I think they are my slaves lol Alot of time if they see me cleaning something they pitch in and help without being asked. They are responsible for putting away the things they take out.

I have a very hard time with the house because sometimes I genuinely do not see the point. My standards for my house are pretty much unreachable. I feel like if it is not absolutely spotless without even one thing sitting out, then it is a mess and I get frustrated and give up and things end up messy. I'm not like that about other people's houses though. I'll go somewhere and they'll apologize for the house being a mess and I can't figure out what they are talking about.

[domesticzookeeper]

My kids don't have chores and I don't expect they ever will. I don't want to have chore charts or get frustrated or angry when someone doesn't do their chore. Chores are bad and icky, no one wants to do them. They are expected to contribute and do what I ask and the majority of the time they do without complaint.

That's interesting, because chores are handled very differently in our house. Chores set the kids up for success because they know what is expected of them, and they can take initiative to do those chores and have responsibility for that little area of the house cleaning. It doesn't take long before the "chore" is just part of the routine. Rarely an issue of contention :shrug

Besides, in our home, you get an input on what chores you do. No one gets saddled with washing dishes if they absolutely *hate* to do dishes. Of course, it's not like we totally love chores ;), but we do have some measure of choice and control over them :tu

[MamaLovesDaddy]

I think I have rebelled against the whole what would "they" think idea. It was as if there was this imaginary person that could see into our home, when I was growing up, that my mom had to perform for. I have definitely rebelled against that mentality!

I keep my house clean and tidy, but not immaculate, and all my children are part of the workforce. We do it together. On certain days I write out on the white board the work that needs to be accomplished and then I ask each member (not dad who is usually working) what they would like to do. Then I write their name next to the item. Usually there is an extra job that we all do together. I always reward our work with some fun time, too. (I need that as much as they do!) My biggest issue is not making it into a drudgery. I want the normal requirements of life to be looked at as something to be done with joy and to the best of your abilities - since we are serving one another and the Lord as we do them. I make a big emphasis on serving one another and congradulate them that they had such wonderful servant hearts as often as I see it. I also make a big deal to dad when he gets home that "they did such and such and doesn't it look great", which gives them a sense of satisfaction in their work. I want them to be satisfied with helping the family as a whole.

We also have implemented family fold night (whenever it is necessary - not usually on the same night each week - usually about every 5 days or however it works out) where everyone in the family helps fold all the laundry which the kids and I have been moving thru the wash and dry all day long into baskets - and then we all fold it together and put them all away at one time. It is SO much nicer and we have fun being together. It also eliminates an extra chore for us the rest of the week. So as you can see we make an emphasis of "working together".

The kids are expected to pick up after themselves (since they can become lazy and leave stuff all over the place) but I usually have "tidy time" a couple times a day and they run around and pick up anything they left laying out.

But as far as having to keep a perfect house for someone else (presentable for "them") - if they are that judgmental I don't particularly want them as a friend. I like my house to be tidy for my own sanity, but I am very against teaching my children to do things out of fear of what others will think of them. It had a bad effect on me and I don't want that rubbing off on them. I want their main concern to be "what does the Lord think of what I am doing?" And of course loving their neighbor as themselves flows naturally out of that first love. It's about a heart of servanthood and being a good steward of what we have - being busy instead of lazy and having a joyful heart in anything we do. As well as an open door to anyone who comes to it - regardless of what the house looks like.

There is a great book I HIGHLY recommend called "Open Heart, Open Home" and it's about the difference between hospitality and entertaining. While entertaining is all about YOU being a great hostest, hospitality is about the other person, and serving them. It's a difference in pride vrs serving. It's a great book and it really helped me put my finger on the issue of having to keep the house just so - and the reason I would feel "bad" if someone popped in when it was messy. I don't know if I'm making any sense here, but it's hard to put into words what I really mean!??! :) Hope that adds something!

[Joanne]

I think it was James Dobson (or some Burton guy) who said that homemakers do themselves a disfavor when they clean before another mom comes over. In that way, we perpetuate the myth that a spotless house is expected in the early years of parenting.

OTOH, early in this thread, a poster talked about a friend who said her kids were more important than a clean house. I don't like the assumptions inherent in that either.

I grew up with a sober alcoholic, depressed mother. The house was a wreck. I didn't bother me as a young child, but when I got 10 or so, I was embarassed to ask anyone over. :mad :blush I hated going home and seeing the mess, the odor (smoke), the dust. "Depression" wasn't a label we understood or reacted to back then. She got better many years later when she retired and changed her lifestyle, but remained very much a hoarder (especially of sewing and quilting supplies) and a pile-er.

I keep my house clean and tidy, but not immaculate, and all my children are part of the workforce.

This is us. We've had assigned chores, and chore charts. They've always worked well, but their use dwindles. I do assign work each day. My theory is that if you live here, you help. As home manager, I do decide the standard of acceptable.

I certainly don't think immaculate is a healthy place for kids to *live*. I also don't think it should be mom's responsibility and based on "volunteerism". I'm also uncomfortable with lowering of standards (except in temporary situations like a newborn, sickness, etc) in order to "focus on the kids".

[kalemommy]

My mom believed that the only way to raise me was to make me work almost as hard as she did from a fairly young age. That meant I was expected to stand for several hours at the ironing board on Saturdays, ironing for the entire family. There were pillow cases, my dad's handkerchiefs, shirts, dresses, skirts, tablecloths...basically just about everything except towels and bed sheets. In addition, I had to be in the kitchen helping my mother cook quite often, had to do laundry, vacuum, dust, work in the garden for long hours during the summer, wash windows, can produce for hours on end on hot summer days, and more. Yes, I did have some time to play and be a child, but I worked harder than any of my friends.

And it was never enough. It was never fast enough. If I wasn't fast enough, I was lazy. If I peeled the potatoes at a speed slower than a blur, I was lazy. If I didn't beat the kitchen floor with the broom and make the dust fly, I was lazy.

The thing I appreciate is that I learned to do things before I had my own home. I also appreciate every time I didn't have to work alone...when my mom walked away and left me with a huge job to do by myself, I lost all motivation and felt very lonely.

I don't want my children to feel that what they do is never good enough, but I do want them to have a certain pride in doing a job well. How to teach this without going through what I did? That's my question.

My children love to do chores today, but they're young.

[Mamatoto]

My children are involved in the every day chores of a house. Dd makes her own bed, waters the dog, helps with laundry, puts silverware away, sets the table, rakes leaves, sweeps the porch, cleans up messes, cleans up toys, helps ds with his coat and hat. Ds cleans up messes and did it without any real instruction because he is imitating the way that we do it here. He also loves to do laundry. I was shocked the other day when I was sorting laundry in the bathroom hamper and threw the things I wanted to wash right away in the hallway. When I turned around to get it he had already carried the pile to the washer and was putting it in (he's 16mo). :lol Ds also puts his hat in the hat box when we come back inside.

I always liked helping my mom around the house when it was like I just described, part of our life. I hated it when she did chore charts I had to put stickers on...then it seemed like a "chore" and I dreaded and hated it.

Neither of our homes were/are spotless but there is order and routine and we know where things are supposed to go. We have a small home now so a little mess seems like a huge mess....but I try to let creativity fly during the day and clean up as we go.