Stop saying GOOD GIRL!

[BornFreeBaby]

There has been a lot of talk lately on the mdc boards about the dangers of using excessive praise on our children. AK's book "Unconditional Parenting" is recommended there, and also mentioned on the book list here. Also "Punished by rewards" is a recommendation.
http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

Here are some quotes from this article:

"What kids do need is unconditional support, love with no strings attached. That’s not just different from praise – it’s the opposite of praise. "Good job!" is conditional. It means we’re offering attention and acknowledgement and approval for jumping through our hoops, for doing things that please us. "

"If we’re praising positive actions as a way of discouraging misbehavior, this is unlikely to be effective for long. Even when it works, we can’t really say the child is now "behaving himself"; it would be more accurate to say the praise is behaving him. The alternative is to work with the child, to figure out the reasons he’s acting that way. We may have to reconsider our own requests rather than just looking for a way to get kids to obey. (Instead of using "Good job!" to get a four-year-old to sit quietly through a long class meeting or family dinner, perhaps we should ask whether it’s reasonable to expect a child to do so.)

Indeed, an impressive body of scientific research has shown that the more we reward people for doing something, the more they tend to lose interest in whatever they had to do to get the reward. Now the point isn’t to draw, to read, to think, to create – the point is to get the goody, whether it’s an ice cream, a sticker, or a "Good job!"

In a troubling study conducted by Joan Grusec at the University of Toronto, young children who were frequently praised for displays of generosity tended to be slightly less generous on an everyday basis than other children were. Every time they had heard "Good sharing!" or "I’m so proud of you for helping," they became a little less interested in sharing or helping. Those actions came to be seen not as something valuable in their own right but as something they had to do to get that reaction again from an adult."

:eek Wow. These studies were very interesting to me. One person on the mdc thread had mentioned that someone came up to her dd in a restaurant and just gushing over what a "good girl" she was to sit there so good the whole time.
Her problem with that situation was that- "praise - even isolated praise - makes a child think that what they did is maybe more than was expected of them, so next time in the same situation, their behavior is contingent upon the praise and not their internal compass (e.g., being calm in the restaurant isn't normal, but considered by someone else to be better than what others do... thus encouraging the idea "why not wreak a lttle havoc? I guess it's expected" - like the definition of "normal" behavior gets pushed down a notch, but more importantly is grounded extrinsically, not intrinsically). So what I am saying is that I think that kind of praise can be damaging in a sneaky sort of way."

My mil goes overboard on the "GOOD GIRL!!!" so much so it drives me a little crazy. She will have a sickening sweet voice and explode in applause at every little thing. The last thing I want is for dd to get used to this and expect it all the time. But even I have to catch myself sometimes everytime I want to say "Great Job" or Good Girl! for fear of passing my own judgement instead of giving more specific praise.

I would like to know what your thoughts are on the praise issues...

[mamatogands]

I agree more and more as dd gets older and I see her trying to please me. I am trying to provide task based praise instead of person based praise. And person based love instead of task based love.

For example:
I see that you were very careful in coloring that picture. OR I see that you're really working hard at learning to do headstands.
instead of
You're so smart for being such a good colorer! OR I am proud of you for doing headstands.

and
I love you. I love my girl.
instead of
I love what a good job you did.

I'm very curious to see what other people say. Dh and I have always tried to avoid "good girl" and I do cringe when other people pour it on.

[DogwoodMama]

Well, a lot of folks (including Crystal and many others here :)) recommend that you avoid general praise, and instead offer concrete comments. This is consistent with what I have read in the literature as well (I read much of what Kohn references as a grad student, he cites "classic" stuff basically). I remember Crystal saying that instead of saying "Oh, what a pretty picture!" that you say, "I see lots of black and purple lines" or something specific about the picture... or with a girls dress, not "You're so pretty" but "Your dress is purple and twirly." That sort of thing. I really try to do that with my dd, because I keep catching myself making generic comments! The other day I told her she did "good eating"! :blush But oh, the "you're a good girl" thing is totally annoying. *sigh*

The other thing I hate is when parents compare their kids to my dd, and say, "Look at her, she is being a good girl." *sigh*. That happened the other day at Joanne's, (the store!), it was horrible. A girl a bit younger was not wanting to sit in the cart in the register line... C had acted like she wanted to get out, but I told her to wait a minute... then she got distracted looking at the other girl, who was wiggling, and her mom was saying, "Oh, you are being so naughty!!! You need to sit still. Oh look at her (to older dd & cashier) she has on her NAUGHTY face! Look at that look!" *sigh* Mom lets youngest dd out of cart, then notices Charlotte watching all this. "Oh, ****, look at that baby! She is being SO GOOD sitting in the cart! You should be like her!" :sick :sick :mad

So, I get annoyed with myself when I realize I'm being "generic" with comments/praise, and also get really annoyed with other parents when they hold up my dd as being "good". :rolleyes Sorry, a bit of a vent there! :O

[sadie]

I totally agree with Kohn. :)

I doubt you could find a more vocal supporter of Unconditional Parenting than me. :shifty :lol

[UltraMother]

My mil goes overboard on the "GOOD GIRL!!!" so much so it drives me a little crazy. She will have a sickening sweet voice and explode in applause at every little thing

:hug2 Mine too. After 10 years of hearing it, I have just accepted that it's a habit that's not going to change. :shrug

[slingmamaof4]

:yes I try to avoid saying anything that sounds like I am placing judgement upon my children or something they have done. I try to avoid good girl/boy, great job, I love it.....although I have to admit they slip out when I am preoccupied or busy. I have read a few posts that this is get-off-your-bottom parenting. Spanking/time-out are the easy ways to discipline. Well, this is they easy way to communicate with our children. Quick, easy. Doesn't take any real thought or time on our part. Sad that this is the majority of communication between parent and child so often. Good girl, that was naughty, stop being bad, what a beautiful drawing. I do it too...but I am really trying not to. Well, I don't do good girl or boy. I have always tried to avoid those. I REALLY dislike bad girl/boy adn I have related these comments together. Judgements. Roles placed upon a child. I am glad that this post is out here. It reminds me to step up my efforts to weed out those thoughtless comments and repalce them with something heartfelt and meaningful.

Also, I have noticed that overpraising makes kids dependent upon constant praise and approval. I don't want dd or ds to think that they have to have my approval and judgement on everything they do. You know?

[sadie]

Sharon, I think you would really love 'Unconditional Parenting'. :tu It is the best parenting/life/relationship book I've ever read. :mrgreen

[ellies mom]

Yeah, I cringe when I hear people say that sort of thing to DD also but unless it is someone that I know I could have "the conversation" with, I just let it drop. It is hard to always avoid judgment statements, especially if you are new at it but I'm trying. Another note. I hate it when people compare my child to their child also. It may sound a bit silly but the big one to me is comments on my DD's hair. She is bi-racial and has what would be considered "good hair". That's great. I don't mind you commenting on her curls, but please don't do it in a way that puts down your DD's hair. Don't say things like "your're so lucky, you can comb your DD's hair" when your DD is standing right there. You are welcome to think it but keep it to yourself. Ok, enough of my soapbox, I just had to get that off my chest.

[Kaz]

Big fan of AK and Unconditional Parenting here too :yes

[slingmamaof4]

Sharon, I think you would really love 'Unconditional Parenting'. :tu It is the best parenting/life/relationship book I've ever read. :mrgreen

Big fan of AK and Unconditional Parenting here too :yes


I will have to see if it is at my local library (doubtful). If not, Christmas is coming. I think all I am going to ask for for Chirstmas is HS books and gentle parenting books. Also, my b-day is next week but none of my family has asked me what I want (they normally get me things I like so no biggie). But jadensmom (Rebecca) is my bf IRL and I have a sneaky suspision that she is going to get me a parenting book :tu. I bought her one for her b-day. We are starting a library between us of gentle parenting books!!!! :mrgreen

[greenemama]

so, what do you say when someone is constantly gushing a "good girl/boy" at your kiddo?

any fabulous responses i can add to my artillery? :grin

[Heather Micaela]

so, what do you say when someone is constantly gushing a "good girl/boy" at your kiddo?

any fabulous responses i can add to my artillery? :grin


Well since trying to get somone outside the immediate family to be more concrete is usualy like pulling teeth, I would say "We tell her 'good job' or "I like how you did ____" since her performance has no bearing on their worth."

I think "good job" from a grandparent is not so bad and a big imrovement from good girl. (unless they live w/ you - trust me BTDT :rolleyes)

[ArmsOfLove]

so, what do you say when someone is constantly gushing a "good girl/boy" at your kiddo?

any fabulous responses i can add to my artillery? :grin
"All children are good." Then I add some descriptive praise :)

[Jillian]

I doubt you could find a more vocal supporter of Unconditional Parenting than me. :shifty :lol


I'm definately a fan of AK, too :tu

[BornFreeBaby]

so, what do you say when someone is constantly gushing a "good girl/boy" at your kiddo?

any fabulous responses i can add to my artillery? :grin
"All children are good." Then I add some descriptive praise :)


Oooooo :yes I may have to use that one. Saying "great job" isn't that much better, because it still implies a judgement call coming from an adult. Someone mentioned to me that its better to say, "The kitty really likes it when you pet him so gently" because it helps the child see that their actions affect others. And instead of "Great sharing!" Its better to say, "Look how happy Johnny is that you shared with him!" Is along the same lines.
Its still hard to stop saying "Good job" and so forth for myself, but the more I learn and practice the better I get at it, and the more annoying comments from family (and strangers :sick2) seem to become. As for them, it would be tempting to say in that sticky sweet voice right back to them, "Oh what a good grandma (adult) you are! WOW you are SO fantastic!" and burst into clapping.

[Jillian]

As for them, it would be tempting to say in that sticky sweet voice right back to them, "Oh what a good grandma (adult) you are! WOW you are SO fantastic!" and burst into clapping.

I nearly choked! LOL that is just too funny! Can you imagine the looks on their faces?!? Heheheh :giggle

[LadyBird]

I always tell her she is a good girl, never bad. I never thought of this as a judgment. interesting topic. I also tell her what a sweetheart she is when I am cuddling her etc. Where do you draw the line and say it is okay to tell them how good/sweet/adorable/smart etc they are?

I also have said good job, just because I thought it was important to do that. Now I am going to have to rethink all of this! I also take interest in what she does, and make positive comments like suggested, but all of it together. I don't get the impression that it is hurting DD but maybe it is too early to tell? Ugh, being a parent is so exacting sometimes.

[Heather Micaela]

Saying "great job" isn't that much better, because it still implies a judgement call coming from an adult.

this is obne of those "pick your battles things for me." I truly think they mean well and as long as they respect that I am not punitve and are not saying "bad girl/boy" - I'm gonna let it slide and just lead by example. It is second nature to me because I ahave an ECE degree, but I have to remeber that they do nat and are not avidly reading parenting books at this stage either.

As for them, it would be tempting to say in that sticky sweet voice right back to them, "Oh what a good grandma (adult) you are! WOW you are SO fantastic!" and burst into clapping.
ROFLOL :roll
(then againi may have to try this approach :think :giggle)
Edidted before final post:
elizabethsmommy the key for me is dialoging more than praising. when ds shows me a puzzle he did "wow! you did that with no help! you like puzzels dont you?"

if he shows me a drawing I say "tell me about your picture" and then let him tell me and we talk about it.

Now, I still say good job when I mean it and the creative juices are jsut not flowing. I think you just want to not overdo it KWIM? And FWIW i think praising appreances is ok and even imporatant for the dad to say to the dd. But not to the point of being superficial. More like - look Christina - your hair is the same color as mine. I still have issues on how I look b/c my parents dowmplayed that TOO much.

[LadyBird]

I guess there are extremes in everything and it is important to not be one or the other. I think DD seems happy and I don't feel like I overdo it. I think it would be worse to never say these things and only say "tell me about your picture" and then have her grow up not feeling like we were proud of her or had any praise. So I guess on some points I agree, but most of it I think it is analyzing the issue too much. My mother always told me I was a good girl and I grew up with the feeling that I was a good person, even when I was doing things I shouldn't. That got me through some rough times lol. I certainly would never want DD to question whether or not she is good, because I never told her.

[DogwoodMama]

Lynn, I also say what I think of as "endearing" things to Charlotte... I often call her sweet baby and sweet pea and other terms... I'm Southern, it's in my upbringing. :grin I personally don't think there's anything wrong with that.

But I think the challenge is to not "always" fall back on those generic things... like don't continually say "good job" or "Pretty picture" etc. Like she builds a tall tower of blocks... instead of saying "Good Job!" I say "Wow, you built a tall tower!" or "You stacked 7 blocks! That is high!"

I don't think everyone has to eliminate certain terms from their vocabulary, (I know I won't ;)), though I know some chose to. I look on it as ADDING more specific and thoughtful comments to my interactions with dd... I *do* try not to say "good girl" too much, because then I will continue to do it in laziness... :O, and honestly, for me, it's a given, what it implies. She is my daughter, and I love her unconditionally. :heart My actions and my words tell her that. So I just try to go a step further and give her more specific responses to the things she does... with the "Tall tower" example- she LOVES that. Whenever she gets her blocks out she tells me she's going to build a "tall tower!" :grin

[slingmamaof4]

I guess there are extremes in everything and it is important to not be one or the other. I think DD seems happy and I don't feel like I overdo it. I think it would be worse to never say these things and only say "tell me about your picture" and then have her grow up not feeling like we were proud of her or had any praise. So I guess on some points I agree, but most of it I think it is analyzing the issue too much. My mother always told me I was a good girl and I grew up with the feeling that I was a good person, even when I was doing things I shouldn't. That got me through some rough times lol. I certainly would never want DD to question whether or not she is good, because I never told her.


I understand where you are coming from. My mom told me good girl and I remember liking it. I don't think it is horrible by any means. I just think is a more descriptive way of getting a positive message across that will be more concrete. Good girl, good job, and the such (I say them some too...actually shortly after my op on this thread I found myself doing it :shifty :doh) are so general and abstract. I try to find a more concrete way of showign what I mean. I had a double major in college. One of my majors was English--creative writing. We were often reminded to "show not tell." And I think it can relate to parenting as well. That doesn't mean don't tell your children that you don't love them and such...everyone needs to hear those things. But as we all now saying it and not showing it doesn't work all that great. There are many times a say when children do something nice, helpful, sweet, noteworthy...a big smile and thank you honey will let that child now your child now you appreciated their help. You can describe what you see. i.e. your child did a better than usual job cleaning her room. "Wow! I see all your toys are neatly sorted into their containers, all the books are organized on the shelves..." If you want to talk about pride I think it helps focus it on them being proud of themselves. "You put in a lot of extra effort on this project. You should be really proud." Instead of I am proud of you. I do tend to over analyse things, but comments like I am so proud of you aren't bad...but it does make the focus of how they feel about themselves external...based on how others view them and their performance. Whereas learning to take pride in a job well done even without any external praise is a goal worthy of teaching our children this. Also if we praise something that wasn't their best effort often times they realize that they really didn't do a "great job," but may become satisfied with it any how or doubt their praisers sincerity. I remember before I read "How to Talk so Your Kids will Listen...." I didn't really know how to praise concretely and not over praise. My daughter scribbled a picture and showed me. I said "I love it! Great job." She looks at me funny :hunh and says "Mom, I scribbled all over it." :giggle Also I have noticed she was constantly asking do you like this, did I do a good job....she was seeking external praise and really didn't know how to evaluate her performance internally and decide for herself how she felt about her pictre, how she shared, how she didn't share...Now I try to refocus that evaluation inward. She can evaluate better than I if she tried hard, if she put in extra effort, or lacked off. I give her lots of love and I do comment (concretely) on extra efforts I see her make (not every little thing "good" she does...but on the times when I know she really tried hard or was very thoughtful, or honest even when she didn't want to admit what happened....). I want her to be confident of her abilities and feel good about a job well done.


Saying "great job" isn't that much better, because it still implies a judgement call coming from an adult.

this is obne of those "pick your battles things for me." I truly think they mean well and as long as they respect that I am not punitve and are not saying "bad girl/boy" - I'm gonna let it slide and just lead by example. It is second nature to me because I ahave an ECE degree, but I have to remeber that they do nat and are not avidly reading parenting books at this stage either.


I try to avoid saying saying great job...but I have to admit it still happens some...and that is okay...but I try to be more concrete when I praise. But I totally agree that it isn't a harmful thing. These parents are well intentioned...I know because I say it sometimes too (trying to avoid it though). But for those of us how have read and know other ways to praise a child that can really mean something to the child it is important I think to try to make the effort even though it is difficult. My dd isn't arrogant, but she has gotten to the point that she can compliment herself for extra efforts she makes or things that she does especially well. And I love to hear her do it. "Wow! Mom, I read this whole book by myself. I am becoming an expert at sound out words." She said to me a few days ago with a big smile and a giggle. She knew she was exaggerating when she said expert, but she was proud of herself for reading a new book on her own and being able to sound out words she hadn't seen before. All I had to do was smile and give her a big hug. I didn't need to lay on the praise...she knew she did a "great job." She was proud of herself without anyone having to validate or comment on her performance/abilites.
...its better to say, "The kitty really likes it when you pet him so gently" because it helps the child see that their actions affect others. And instead of "Great sharing!" Its better to say, "Look how happy Johnny is that you shared with him!" Is along the same lines.
Its still hard to stop saying "Good job" and so forth for myself, but the more I learn and practice the better I get at it...


:yes :tu :highfive

[mamatogands]

ok, in general I'm a supporter of the premise behind this (no judgments from adults, supporting intrinsic motivation)

but I do think there is a sense in which I WANT to share my judgement with my kids because, to some extent at least, I have pretty good judgment. Judgement that's been trained by years of being in Christian community, reading scripture, etc. I'd like my good judgment to shape what I hope will become my kids good judgment. :)

What to do with that.

[BornFreeBaby]

Saying "great job" isn't that much better, because it still implies a judgement call coming from an adult.

this is obne of those "pick your battles things for me." I truly think they mean well and as long as they respect that I am not punitve and are not saying "bad girl/boy" - I'm gonna let it slide and just lead by example. It is second nature to me because I ahave an ECE degree, but I have to remeber that they do nat and are not avidly reading parenting books at this stage either.

I agree, Heather. I don't think I will say too much to my mil unless it gets really out of hand (which it does sometimes) But I understand that they just love her to pieces and I don't think that she will be necessarily harmed by their comments. I agree that every once in a while when a 'good job' flies out of my mouth it isn't going to hurt her. But I think that its important to not overdo the generic praises.
Its much more empowering to a child to say, "Wow! You cleaned your room! Doesn't it feel good that its clean?!"


ok, in general I'm a supporter of the premise behind this (no judgments from adults, supporting intrinsic motivation)

but I do think there is a sense in which I WANT to share my judgement with my kids because, to some extent at least, I have pretty good judgment. Judgement that's been trained by years of being in Christian community, reading scripture, etc. I'd like my good judgment to shape what I hope will become my kids good judgment. :)

What to do with that.


I think that we all want to share our judgement with our kids. But again, going to extremes, where the child only looks to other people for validation to know if they did well or not is not a good thing. Many adults are still struggling with self-esteem because they are constantly looking for others to praise them.
I think it also gets in the way of being able to accept compliments, being able to truly accept love. Just as many adults struggle with the idea that Jesus died for US. They say, ME? I'm not worthy of this. And they have a hard time accepting Jesus' love. I guess its all about a balance. Just because we don't use generic praise words like "good girl" doesn't mean that we don't praise them at all.

This has been really good to hear so many wonderful thoughts! Good job GCM's! :lol I guess we all need to hear it sometimes.

[LadyBird]

Lynn, I also say what I think of as "endearing" things to Charlotte... I often call her sweet baby and sweet pea and other terms... I'm Southern, it's in my upbringing. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I was brought up in Texas so I agree, there might be some geographical differences here in how we talk to our children. I also agree that it would be sad if all she ever heard was good girl or good job, because then eventually when she gets older, wouldn't she wonder if I even cared enough to say anything to take interest in what she is doing. I guess for me it just comes naturally. I think back to the last time she was building a tower, and I would say good job, but also would interact with her and say how high can you build it, one more block! and when she would do it, she would get all excited and look at me and clap her hands, and I would clap too.....when it would fall over we would both say "oh ohhhhh" and laugh. I guess it depends on the age too.

[slingmamaof4]

I always tell her she is a good girl, never bad. I never thought of this as a judgment. interesting topic. I also tell her what a sweetheart she is when I am cuddling her etc. Where do you draw the line and say it is okay to tell them how good/sweet/adorable/smart etc they are?

I also have said good job, just because I thought it was important to do that. Now I am going to have to rethink all of this! I also take interest in what she does, and make positive comments like suggested, but all of it together. I don't get the impression that it is hurting DD but maybe it is too early to tell? Ugh, being a parent is so exacting sometimes.


I don't think there is anything wrong or harmful in what you have above. I call my kids sweethearts, honey, all kinds of things like that. It is okay to tell them that they are sweet/adorable/smart...i.e. say you are in the store and a lady comes up to you after she had noticed how well you and your daughter communicate. What would meant more to you: "You are so such a good mom." Or "I noticed how well you and your daughter relate to one another. I love seeing a mom and daughter who are so close!" Both times she is smiling and sincere. What do you think will stay with you or effect telling your dd "You are so smart!" or comments like: "Wow! You figured that out all by your self!" "You remember that after all this time!" Do you think it will mean more to her to hear "You're such a good girl, sweetheart." or "I know it was hard to share that toy sweetheart. But you still did it! That shows a lot of thoughtfulness/selflessness!" Depending on the age yof your children you phrase your sentences. And I don't think there is anything wrong with using a word the child doesn't understand already. Either they will catch on after you have used it a few times or they will ask you what it means. "What is thoughtfulness Mom?" "Well, honey, thoughfulness is when someone thinks of what someone would like without the other person even having to ask or helping someone out that you notice is having a hard time..." explain however you think appropriate. Then instead of thinking she is a "good girl" your daughter can have some speicific characteristics to try to use. She will start thinking of herself as thoughtful, helpful, honest...if you point out these characteristics to her specifically. And she will likely try to become more thoughtful, helpful, honest.....

My suggestion if you think it would work is to be as specific as you can when praising/complimenting your child. Really the same goes for disciplining your child. I know that we all know it isn't very helpful in guiding a child to say "bad/naughty girl/boy." It is helpful though if you can point out something short and specific. "Hitting hurts." "Running off is dangerous. Stay with mommy/hold mommy's hand, so that you will be safe. It would be sad if you got hurt." I try to relate to my children in a very sincere and loving manner whether praising or disciplining. And I have found that being specific and concise works really well for us. I don't feel like I ever need to say good girl or good job. Me being pleased or displeased is obvious when I describe for them what I see or feel. Does this make any sense? :shrug :think

[Heather Micaela]

I think that you said that very well sharon

[LadyBird]

well, I do both....quick praises and more detailed praise...so I guess I am okay!

[Heather Micaela]

well, I do both....quick praises and more detailed praise...so I guess I am okay!


:hug You're ok either way becuse you are in tune to your kid :rockon

[slingmamaof4]

well, I do both....quick praises and more detailed praise...so I guess I am okay!


:hug You're ok either way becuse you are in tune to your kid :rockon


:yes I haven't acutally read many books that deal with this kind of thing. But if you haven't read How to Talk So Your Kids will Listen and Listen so Your Kids will Talk that is a great book. I wish I had read it before I did. I just read it this spring. They don't call it concrete praise that is kind of my term...concrete and specific praise can be very quick. Not usually only two words, but one short sentence. Sometimes I don't have to say anything--just a smile and a hug for my little ones when they have done something particuarly well or something they have never done before.

I agree that you are okay if you are in tune with your child. The more gentle parenting books and articles you read and the more ideas you get from moms on here or IRL the more tools you have, but the most important thing is being in tune with your child. One could read all the gentle parenting books out there, but it they aren't in tune with their children it will only help to a small degree...at least they won't be spanking or saying unkind things, but they often won't validate their children's feelings or know what their child needs...a hug, a gentle word, a guiding hand (and by that I don't mean a spanking :td). I have no doubt that you are all doing just fine--room for improvement for all of us--but I think that anyone who is one GCMs is doing pretty well because that means they are taking an active role in improving their relationship with thier children and finding out more ways of handling any given situation. I am pretty new on here and I think that this board is such a great resource for gentle mothers!!!!! I :heart it! Rebecca (jadensmom) told me about it when she first joined. I tried joining then too, but somehow my application didn't go through. I did't try again until a bit ago. Now to think of all the skills and ideas I could have had all along :doh . Well, I am here now. :)

[Heather Micaela]

It seems like youv'e been here forever already sharaon. I love how comfortable you have felt to just jump in w/ your ideas and advice

[sadie]

ITA. With Heather, and with your advice and views. ;)

[MaiMama]

Would all of the same apply to a 14 month old, too? We tend to lay it on (because she's doing so many amazing things!) and then occasionally it crosses my mind that I'm blanket praising. :scratch

[Heather Micaela]

i think the more specific the better. "Yay you put all your toys away!" Besided it will also help develp langauge that way too.

[slingmamaof4]

It seems like youv'e been here forever already sharaon. I love how comfortable you have felt to just jump in w/ your ideas and advice


:O IRL I am an extrovert and talkative can you tell?!!??!

After my posting today I caught myself saying good job to Ryllan!!!!! :laughtears I always had a little something to say with it too. "Good job Ryllan! You closed your eyes through the whole blessing!" Now I feel a bit like a hypocrite. Well, I don't think I ever said I don't say it--just that I try to avoid vague praise like that. I think reading this thread has either brought my attention to how often I actually say it or I have written good job/great job so many times now in the last couple days that it is starting to take over! :laughtears :giggle


Would all of the same apply to a 14 month old, too? We tend to lay it on (because she's doing so many amazing things!) and then occasionally it crosses my mind that I'm blanket praising. :scratch


Perfect time for you to start trying to describe what you are praising her for. Like Heather said it will help develop her vocabulary and you won't get into the habit of always using vague praise. Heather's example is really right on for that age too I think.

[MaiMama]

Thanks.
I haven't told my husband about this thread yet, but the other day Ithink he said "good girl" five times in three minutes when trying to blow her nose, etc. It was hard to keep from laughing. I have to wait for the right time before I try to suggest a change to him. Plus, I want to have my story straight.

I have another question. What about the tone of voice? Is "You put that puzzle piece in!" with a voice that has an implied "YAY!" too much?
When I read the posts about avoiding judgment, I envision a yawning monotone Mommy tracking their behavior: "You are your cheerios. You picked your nose. You drew a line." I want to celebrate my baby's accomplishments.

Is it about avoiding the proliferation of praise or its vagueness? Is it a matter of celebrating each step this month but each jump next year? Is the goal giving them enough external reward to identify and promote desirable behavior and then slowly phasing the praise out once the behavior is mastered, moving on to another challenge? Now I feel like I am just describing the pyschological principle of shaping behavior. I guess the post about children being less inclined to do something they've been rewarded for is troubling, because it seems like they have to figure out what to do, at least initially.

I worked with adopted children with attachment defficits (and behavior problems) who had been abused and neglected. We needed to praise them often (7 times per correction) to even learn what the prosocial behaviors would be. Eventually the goal would be for them to be self-motivated, but initially it took time. Am I making this harder than it is?

:shrug

[BornFreeBaby]

Here is what AK says:

"So what’s the alternative? That depends on the situation, but whatever we decide to say instead has to be offered in the context of genuine affection and love for who kids are rather than for what they’ve done."

"If your child draws a picture, you might provide feedback – not judgment – about what you noticed: "This mountain is huge!" 'Boy, you sure used a lot of purple today!'"

When I hear the words "context of genuine affection and love", I think that it is a way of being excited about and celebrating their accomplishments. In no way, just because I am describing what my child did, am I monotone or lacking excitement in my voice.
When you smile and exclaim, "You did it"! joyfully, then that is not only happy and excited, but genuine. Plus its more important to me that she starts saying, "I DID IT!" excitedly than for me to say it. I think being genuine is the key. Constantly saying "good girl" over and over is not necessarily genuine or helpfully descriptive. But I am always saying excitedly, "I just love you!" and contantly showing my joy and love with her.
We are Christians and we should exude love and joy and happiness with our children to show God's love. I think we can do that without being overly judgmental in our words, and without them having to rely on those kinds of statements.

[DogwoodMama]

I just wanted to say that Alfie Kohn is NOT the first person to make these suggestions. :grin I've read similar suggestions many places. :tu IMO that lends more support to the validity of the suggestion. ;)

[Heather Micaela]

I just wanted to say that Alfie Kohn is NOT the first person to make these suggestions. :grin I've read similar suggestions many places. :tu IMO that lends more support to the validity of the suggestion. ;)


yeah I've never heard of ak before but learned this along time ago

[MaiMama]

So can we punctuate our comments to our kids like we do with each other here, just as long as that is not all we say?
:woohoo :praise :clap
:rockon :highfive :tu

[Heather Micaela]

So can we punctuate our comments to our kids like we do with each other here, just as long as that is not all we say?


GOOD GIRL - you got it! :lol

(sorry :P~ I couldn't resist :giggle)

[slingmamaof4]

"If your child draws a picture, you might provide feedback – not judgment – about what you noticed: "This mountain is huge!" 'Boy, you sure used a lot of purple today!'"

In no way, just because I am describing what my child did, am I monotone or lacking excitement in my voice.
When you smile and exclaim, "You did it"! joyfully, then that is not only happy and excited, but genuine. Plus its more important to me that she starts saying, "I DID IT!" excitedly than for me to say it. I think being genuine is the key. Constantly saying "good girl" over and over is not necessarily genuine or helpfully descriptive. But I am always saying excitedly, "I just love you!" and contantly showing my joy and love with her.
We are Christians and we should exude love and joy and happiness with our children to show God's love. I think we can do that without being overly judgmental in our words, and without them having to rely on those kinds of statements.


:yes

I praise my children several times a day. A few good jobs get in there as I already said, but they are always followed by something more concrete. Still trying to X out the good job comments. I am very genuine in my praise and I really know specifically and they know exactly what they are being praised for...extra effort, being responsible, helpful, thoughtful, considerate...


I haven't told my husband about this thread yet, but the other day Ithink he said "good girl" five times in three minutes when trying to blow her nose, etc. It was hard to keep from laughing.

:laughtears


I have another question. What about the tone of voice? Is "You put that puzzle piece in!" with a voice that has an implied "YAY!" too much?
When I read the posts about avoiding judgment, I envision a yawning monotone Mommy tracking their behavior: "You are your cheerios. You picked your nose. You drew a line." I want to celebrate my baby's accomplishments.


:giggle The tone and your facial expression are key. But if you say in a monotone voice and with a dull expression "Good job." It won't mean a thing other than give the opposite impression. Same with this. Like I have said before sometimes a smile and a hug are enough. But often praise is verbal. And in that case be geniune. You don't have to be sounding like you are jumping up and down inside praising. Although with a little tiny one you do want it to be that really excited tone of voice because they will understand that more than the words. But the words help build their vocabulary. But making good eye contact and being really geniune with your 2.5 yo or so in yo should be very effective. Soemtimes it will be that really excited tone and expression. Sometimes it will be a sweet smile, eye contact, and a quiet, "Honey, I really appreciate you reading a story to the baby while I switched loads in the laundry. That was very helpful." Then a hug. I don't always use a really excited tone with my 4 yo, if it is something really exiciting I do. Like the first time she read a book by herself, but for something she does that is very thoughtful or helpful I find that a good eye contact and a genuinely happy response even if it is just a whisper in her ear really works.

Does that make sense?


I worked with adopted children with attachment defficits (and behavior problems) who had been abused and neglected. We needed to praise them often (7 times per correction) to even learn what the prosocial behaviors would be. Eventually the goal would be for them to be self-motivated, but initially it took time. Am I making this harder than it is?
:shrug


No I don't think you are making this harder than it is. It is hard to break habits and try something new. And before you do that you need to know what it is you are trying. And why you are doing it. But it isn't a hard concept to understand. Be genuine!!!!!! Be thoughtful! Describe. After a bit it will come easily...I am just getting to that point after a few months.

I too am very familiar with attachment disorders. My adopted brother had reactive attachment disorder. But it isn't just for those children. All children need much praise than correction. Concrete, genuine praise.

[MaiMama]

I guess there are kind of two issues here. One is to describe instead of giving the global pat phrase, and I know what I need to do in that regard. It's the other issue of not praising at all because they will lower their standards (see the first post of the thread) that I am not sure applies to such a little one (14 mos), and if so, is the solution just to tone it down as tasks are mastered? It seems like some of your responses to me (which I greatly appreciate) still support praising, and that's fine with me, but may not match what the first quote was hoping for, or if it does, then I guess I'm still not clear. :scratch
Thank you!!

[slingmamaof4]

I guess there are kind of two issues here. One is to describe instead of giving the global pat phrase, and I know what I need to do in that regard. It's the other issue of not praising at all because they will lower their standards (see the first post of the thread) that I am not sure applies to such a little one (14 mos), and if so, is the solution just to tone it down as tasks are mastered? It seems like some of your responses to me (which I greatly appreciate) still support praising, and that's fine with me, but may not match what the first quote was hoping for, or if it does, then I guess I'm still not clear. :scratch
Thank you!!



I am sorry if I didn't make myself clear about that. It is a tricky issue. I do praise several times a day, but not over little things. Not over expected behavior. Over things in which they really put forth extra effort or really thoughtful, helpful. I don't praise my dd for putting on her own shoes...I did when she had tp struggle to learn how but now it really isn't something noteworthy. Nor is eating her dinner (which since she is picky can be interesting though), or writing her name (she could do this at three). Maybe these aren't the best examples, but I don't praise them for every "good" thing they do or say. There are plenty of opportunities everyday to praise for a child's extra effort. I think that what the article is addressing is that so many parents prasie for every little thing to build confidence. Very well intentioned. Also the kind of praise makes a world of difference IMO too.

[MaiMama]

Okay, Sharon (and others), thanks for sticking with me through this.

I usually only have tiny bits of time on the computer, so I went back and reread the whole thread, and that helped.

I realize I was overextending the point of the AK article & Grusec research. I got all the way to the idea of witholding all judgment and trying not to praise at all for a toddler, when this was more about avoiding repeated excessive, global, & generic praise, particularly for previously mastered tasks.

I have always done this to some degree, but I am working on praising her more specifically, and I find that it helps me get and stay in tune with my dd, :rockon spuring on "conversations" and interaction that might otherwise have died out because I didn't know what to do or say next. I am one of those people who relies too much on the guidance and praise of others, so I am excited to be learning how to prevent that habit in dd. :grin

I am extremely grateful for the tools I am acquiring here.
:highfive

Many thanks!

Mai

[cklewis]

Like Elizabeth said, Alfie Kohn is not the first to say this. In fact, this is pretty much conventional wisdom in ALL of education!! So he's not new or different or special in this regard. This is really old news that is across disciplines.

Specific descriptions are always more satisfying than empty praise. :shrug "You were very clear in your transitions." is better than "great organization!" "You cooked this steak just right!" is always more satisfying than "thanks for dinner." "Wow -- look at all those pretty colors!" is better than "great job."

In fact, I think I have a text on my shelf by Erasmus that says the same thing. :shrug

C