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4blessings
10-19-2005, 01:59 PM
I saw (or read, can't remember which) an interview with the Duggars where they were asked about discipline. They said that they sometimes use time-out but also think that spanking is mandated in the bible, and that the bible gives instructions on how to spank. I must have missed that chapter. :scratch What, exactly, are they talking about? Any guesses as to what they're intrepreting as instructions on how to spank? :shrug

Mother of Sons
10-19-2005, 02:45 PM
I've heard that from a few places too. Even down to how many swats. I've never understood where they are getting it from either.

CelticJourney
10-19-2005, 05:29 PM
What, exactly, are they talking about? Any guesses as to what they're intrepreting as instructions on how to spank?

Gothard manipulates anything to say what he wants. If you believe in him enough, you believe his reasoning.

ShowersofBlessings
10-19-2005, 07:28 PM
What, exactly, are they talking about? Any guesses as to what they're intrepreting as instructions on how to spank?

Gothard manipulates anything to say what he wants. If you believe in him enough, you believe his reasoning.


So Gothard *is* the Bible? :/ :hunh What passages do the Duggars/Gothard claim give instructions about how to spank???????

DebraBaker
10-19-2005, 07:32 PM
A prime example of twisting the Bible to suit their pet teachings.

I have yet to have one of these people actually cite a legitimate verse to support Biblically mandated spanking.

Debra Baker

ArmsOfLove
10-19-2005, 07:48 PM
I believe Gothard has outlined the "rules" that Jesus supposedly gave to Christians and if someone violates these rules then there are connected consequences he's pulled out of verses and I'm sure he's got an outline of how to spank. No, it's not in the Bible :(

ShowersofBlessings
10-19-2005, 07:51 PM
I believe Gothard has outlined the "rules" that Jesus supposedly gave to Christians and if someone violates these rules then there are connected consequences he's pulled out of verses and I'm sure he's got an outline of how to spank. No, it's not in the Bible :(


My goodness! I'd really like to see this...... :banghead

One of the rules that I think of right away when I think of what Jesus taught us is this: Love one another, by this people will know that you are my disciples. I remember his messages being about love and treating each other kindly, not about how to spank..... :hunh

Senta
10-19-2005, 08:19 PM
You know, I've been reading Luke...and the other night was reading it in The Message and came across this passage:

Luk 9:43 They all shook their heads in wonder, astonished at God's greatness, God's majestic greatness. While they continued to stand around exclaiming over all the things he was doing, Jesus said to his disciples,
Luk 9:44 "Treasure and ponder each of these next words: The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into human hands."
Luk 9:45 They didn't get what he was saying. It was like he was speaking a foreign language and they couldn't make heads or tails of it. But they were embarrassed to ask him what he meant.
Luk 9:46 They started arguing over which of them would be most famous.
Luk 9:47 When Jesus realized how much this mattered to them, he brought a child to his side.
Luk 9:48 "Whoever accepts this child as if the child were me, accepts me," he said. "And whoever accepts me, accepts the One who sent me. You become great by accepting, not asserting. Your spirit, not your size, makes the difference."

In the NKJV Luke 9:48 is:

48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great.”

I really like the paraphrase of The Message for that verse...and I hardly think that the same Jesus who said to receive children in His name would have listed ways to spank our children

Wholly Mama
10-19-2005, 11:11 PM
I checked out a book this summer which outlined how the bible teaches us to spank because I really wanted to know where "these people" were coming from. I started a study on this topic, but haven't finished it. You can look into it yourself!
Here are the verses they have given:

Why spanking is necessary:
Prov 22:15, Prov 29:15, Eph 6:1, Col. 3:20, Prov. 13:24, Heb 12:5,6, James 1:20, Psalm 103:13, Eph 6:4, Heb 12:11
I wrote down a quote from the book, "delayed obedience is disobedience" from this section.

When to give a spanking:
Eph 6:1, Micah 6:8, Eccl 12:13, col 3:20, Isaiah 53:6, 1Sam 15, Jonah 1&2, Psalm 100:2, Phil 2:14, Deut 28:45-47, Isaiah 1:19

How to give a spanking:
Prov 29:15, 13:24, 22:15, 23:13-14
Prov 19:18
Prov 29:17
2Sam 12, Prov 28:13
Luke 3:8, Heb 12:11

Each of these verses were to back up the steps to proper, Biblical spanking. Hmmmm....if it were that easy, steps 1,2,3, why are these verses all over the place? And, in looking through these verses, I still have no clue how they reached these conclusions!!

greenemama
10-20-2005, 06:05 AM
interesting, amy. what book? you can pm me if you think it prudent not to post it here. :grin

i'm so disgusted by just about anything gothard. i just can't believe the man still has such a following. :cry

4blessings
10-20-2005, 06:34 AM
Thanks for the verses. I'll have to study those and see if I can figure out where they're coming from.

I was doing a little research last night and came across an article where a mom (who is now a grandma) talks about her DH following Gothard methods and spanking their then 3 y/o. She said something about Gothard saying you should spank until the child is "crying softly" and that "softly bruising " the bottom is ok. :sick2 :cry

Oliveshoots
10-20-2005, 06:59 AM
She said something about Gothard saying you should spank until the child is "crying softly"


del

I read through about half of those verses....while there are a few that I can see where they get their ideas (mainly because of misinterpretation of "the rod") there are others that it really burns me up to see how those verses are being used out of context. For example: Micah 6:8 is one of my FAVORITE verses, (and favorite praise choruses, too) "He has shown you, o man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you: but to DO JUSTICE, and to LOVE MERCY, and to walk HUMBLY with your God." HOW is that taken to mean we are to spank?????? If anything, I take that to mean we are to show our children mercy and do it humbly. Mix that with the verses about the "rod" and I get a parenting philosphy in which I am to be humble, merciful, but yet to teach my child to be disciplined in the ways of God.

CelticJourney
10-20-2005, 07:12 AM
Oh, good, well then that means I would NEVER have to spank my child, because he is SCREAMING HYSTERICALLY if I even try to hold him on my lap when he wants to get down

:no2 No, unfortunately that is not what they mean. They would take hysterical screaming as defiance and rebellion. In their approach, you spank them until you break their will and all they can do is 'softly cry'. (that was amazingly creepy to even type :cry)

DebraBaker
10-20-2005, 01:53 PM
Creeps me out as well.

I don't see the value in beating a child into submission. Is that a real victory when the child's will didn't stand a chance.

The Bible actually tells children to obey their parents it says nothing about parents coercing obedience.

G-d gave us free will. He didn't beat us and force us to love and obery Him.. rather He has been patient with us. Shouldn't we pattern our parenting after G-d?

Debra Baker