How do you nightwean a stubborn 2 year old?

[jluvts]

Oh my goodness, this kid is sooo stubborn. :banghead I have only tried refusing him a couple of times, and he wants nothing to do with it. He is 25 months old, and I am so done with night nursing. He's gotten really bad and started nursing all night long. He's got all his teeth (yeah!), he's not sick, he could be having a growth spurt I guess, but I think its more attitude than anything. He's also been really bad at naptime thinking he needs to eat the whole 2 hours. We do have solids issues, which is why I never pushed nightweaning before. I'm just so sick of the lazy all night long buffet, and having to contort my body for him (he likes to "grope"). I just want him to sleep through. He is starting to eat better, and I'm really trying during the day to help him. He just begged for me for "nigh-nighs" after only nursing about an hour before. So I put him in his high chair with some food. He's had ONE bran flake and now he's just sitting there! Dinner is such an issue though, he loves to pray with us, and poke at our food, but not eat his own. My husband graduates from his main courses on October 28th, and doesn't start back up again until November 21st, so I think we are going to use that time while he is only working to nightwean. Any suggestions?

[LadyBird]

I had to do the same with DD for about the same reasons. She was 18 months when I weaned her. It just kind of gradually happened until she was only nursing once a day..usually at night or in the early morning. It got to a point where I just finally told her that the milk was all gone. And she would fuss and cry etc, but that didn't last really very long. Her behavior was worse when I was still nursing. Once she went three days without nursing I knew it was done, and her behavior changed drastically. Then she started wanting to cuddle, and not nurse. She also took off with the eating. She eats all through the day now. I guess you can be as gentle about it as you can, but the dissappointment is going to be there. That is only natural imo. Another idea, have DH put him to sleep a few nights. Get him used to going to sleep without nursing. But no matter what you do, I am sure you will have a few rough nights and then things will settle into a new routine. God bless! :hug

[milkmommy]

Put him on a nursing schedule and limit the time likes say he may nurse for 10 minues in the morning before naps and bedtime whats ever a good amount for you all, that alone may help. If he asks for nummies at other times help him in other ways provide food (its his choice to not eat) a drink if thats what he needs cuddle him read to him sing to him play cars and dinasours whatever fill his nursing void with mommy love.

Deanna

[arwen]

i don't neccessarily believe he's stubborn....
you are changing a routine for him that he's had for 25 months!!!!
think if you had coffee for 25 months every single hour of the day....and then someone said....nope, no coffee now....drink some coke.
what a change! :eek

start slllllooooowwwww!!!
maybe at nite start with from 10 pm to 2 am you will not nurse.
do that till he sleeps through that period of time and then move on and keep adding an hour.

offer more foods during the day....
fruit snack, all natural fruit leathers, buttered noodles...things that are tasty and that he'll love.
whatever those may be.
just offer throughout the day...maybe have it on a plate and put it on a low table for him.

the best advice i have is to start slow and to not get frustrated....he'll sense that and that may just make him not want to change more because he doesn't understand why you are so upset.

[CelticJourney]

Any suggestions?

Yes - reconsider. I went through all this with my first - could have written your post. BUT what I learned from my daughter was that for her breastmilk=love. After I made the decision that I was not going to push her away, the frustration went away.

this kid is sooo stubborn; I think its more attitude than anything; now he's just sitting there!

I can hear your frustration and I am sure your son hears and feels it, too. When I tried to wean dd1 at that age, she took it as a rejection of her, rather than a change in nutrition sources. The feelings of 'rejection' compounded with your frustration only make him more insecure and want to nurse for comfort more, not less.


Just take a step back and ponder this for a few more days rather than try to force the issue.

[2sunshines]

I would definitely not completely wean the child, particularly since your frustrations are with night-nursing. Keep your day time nursing as it is. You definitely don't want to change too much at a time. As the pp poster said, these are habits that the child has had for over two years, and for him, it's absolutely his source of love and comfort. Go slowly.

When we decided it was time to nightwean both of our children, we brought a cup of water to bed and when the child woke up at night wanting to nurse, we offered the cup of water. With my dd, my dh usually had to get up and warm up a cup of milk and that seemed to work better. I stil nursed before bed and first thing in the morning (and of course throughout the day) but was successfully able to cut out the night time nursing. For us, it worked. Obviously this method will not work for everyone, and it's really a matter of you trying things and knowing your ds' limits to find what works for him. My sil successfully nightweaned their little ones by having daddy sleep with the child and comfort the child during the night, rather than mom. That method worked for her.

[jluvts]

I am NOT weaning completely. I'm not ready for that and neither is he. I'm not going to force that on him. But I do think the night nursing has to stop. It isn't a love thing either. If it was that, I think he'd probably just nurse for a few minutes and then lay close to me, but he doesn't, he lays in the corner like a foot away.
I do get frustrated, but I'm not making a compulsive decision on this. I've actually been contemplating this since about June. It just seems like God is giving us this three week period coming up and I want to make the most of it.
Plus I really feel like I need to night wean because I keep miscarrying. I don't like miscarrying, and I'm not going to completely wean just to get pg, but I'd like to give my next baby a shot at survival.
I'm really appreciate the first couple of comments, but I'm feeling attacked, like maybe some of you answered without reading my full post.

[arwen]

i'm sorry you are feeling attacked :hugheart
i did absolutely read your posts and the following posts.

being somewhere you've been before i've seen the outcome of just cutting it all off with no gradual routine.
it made it worse.

it's a desire he has to nurse at nite...something he's done for a long time....my ds at 23 months will nurse just like that unless i pop him off. i let him nurse for 5 minutes and then pop him off...i've fallen asleep before and he's still on me....
i think also that they fall asleep too....and just stay attached.

:hug i just think we as mommas have all kinds of differenet advice to give since we've been there too.

[2sunshines]

I am NOT weaning completely. I'm not ready for that and neither is he

:hug I know that. Your post only asked about night-weaning. The only reason I included advice against completely weaning was because it was suggested as a solution, not because you were originally considering it.

I gave you suggestions about what worked for us and what worked for my sil who also went through night weaning. I'm sorry if you feel frustrated. :hugheart That's all that I can offer -- what worked for us.

[katiekind]

We have some gentle night-weaning posts over in the breastfeeding folder if you'd like some suggestions....

Here's the method that worked for me... Nightweaning my youngest (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=13713.msg121895#msg121895)

[CelticJourney]

I'm really appreciate the first couple of comments, but I'm feeling attacked, like maybe some of you answered without reading my full post

Well the first post suggested complete weaning, that's why subsequent posts mentioned it. In our defense, your first post mentioned inconvenience as the reason for wanting to night-wean and a good degree of frustration; you never mention miscarriage until this second post. We only responded to what was in the post.

I weaned day time nursing far before night time - they were easier to distract during the day. Mine also gave up their naps when they weaned. My personal believe is that weaning happens when they show signs they are ready, even if it is helped along by some 'tricks'. Your ds doesn't seem to be indicating that he is ready and it might be harder on both of you now than if you wait a couple of months. I do stand by my opinion about emotional development, but if there are medical issues related to nursing, I ask that you disregard any of my comments as I am not a medical professional. Obviously you have to made the decision based on what is best for you and your family.

[Joanne]

Put him on a nursing schedule and limit the time likes say he may nurse for 10 minues in the morning before naps and bedtime whats ever a good amount for you all, that alone may help. If he asks for nummies at other times help him in other ways provide food (its his choice to not eat) a drink if thats what he needs cuddle him read to him sing to him play cars and dinasours whatever fill his nursing void with mommy love.

This is what I'd do.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like the nursing dynamic in your home has been permissive. It sounds like your son does not do well with total on demand extended nursing.

[arwen]

Put him on a nursing schedule and limit the time likes say he may nurse for 10 minues in the morning before naps and bedtime whats ever a good amount for you all, that alone may help. If he asks for nummies at other times help him in other ways provide food (its his choice to not eat) a drink if thats what he needs cuddle him read to him sing to him play cars and dinasours whatever fill his nursing void with mommy love.

This is what I'd do.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like the nursing dynamic in your home has been permissive. It sounds like your son does not do well with total on demand extended nursing.



i think that going from nursing, nursing, nursing...to just 20 minutes a day and nite is way to much for a little one.
i'm not saying to not conform to some sort of schedule but only 20 minutes?
10 minutes each....
that's pretty drastic imo :shrug

[milkmommy]

Put him on a nursing schedule and limit the time likes say he may nurse for 10 minues in the morning before naps and bedtime whats ever a good amount for you all, that alone may help. If he asks for nummies at other times help him in other ways provide food (its his choice to not eat) a drink if thats what he needs cuddle him read to him sing to him play cars and dinasours whatever fill his nursing void with mommy love.

This is what I'd do.

I may be wrong, but it sounds like the nursing dynamic in your home has been permissive. It sounds like your son does not do well with total on demand extended nursing.



i think that going from nursing, nursing, nursing...to just 20 minutes a day and nite is way to much for a little one.
i'm not saying to not conform to some sort of schedule but only 20 minutes?
10 minutes each....
that's pretty drastic imo :shrug


Well thats why I said what works for you :) I was just using it as an example (btw my example would have been at least 30 mintues not 20) but really it depends I think some kids really do need firm boundries and do better once this boundries are firmly established.

Deanna

[jluvts]

:doh


So, I think I'm going to leave the daytime nursing as normal. I'm not going to restrict him during the day, but I do try to encourage him to eat something first. I'm not going to eliminate the first thing in the morning nursing (before we get out of bed). I also nurse to nap and bed for an hour each, and I am not eliminating that. I think I am going to do what arwen said and try not to nurse after he lays down (he's asleep when I lay him down, so I don't need help with that). I'm going to finish eliminating the occasional session before I go to bed (I go to bed between midnight and 1am). Then I'll think I'll just try and refuse the first two, but I know he'll freak, so I'll just let him nurse until he quits wiggling and detach. Then when he is ok with that, maybe he'll just drop them himself and we'll move on from there.

I'm sorry I got defensive. I don't know what to do sometimes, and I've never been in a position to ask for help...everyone I know practices cio, and I REFUSE to do that, so I usually just have to come up with things on my own. I don't really want to nightwean him, but I think he is starting to nurse wayyyy too much at night and not eating enough during the day, and I don't know if I can handle m/cing again (I totally thought I mentioned that in the first post, sorry).

[Desert Rose]

Plus I really feel like I need to night wean because I keep miscarrying. I don't like miscarrying, and I'm not going to completely wean just to get pg, but I'd like to give my next baby a shot at survival.

ITU. When I had my early m/c last month, I kept thinking "is it my fault for nursing?" :cry Anyway, I guess it doesn't matter now that dh is deployed.

No advice...just :hugheart and :pray for you!

[Eowyn]

so I'll just let him nurse until he quits wiggling and detach. Then when he is ok with that, maybe he'll just drop them himself and we'll move on from there.



I'm tandem nursing a 28 month old and a 6 month old. I find nursing my older son stressful (he's handsy, and gets upset when I end a nursing session over it) at times, and I do not like nursing him at night, and I'm in the process of re-nightweaning him (he started up again when my DH was in the hospital). One thing I do during the day, too, to help let him know a session is almost over, is tell him, "Okay. Now I'm going to count to 10. When I get to 10, you are going to stop nursing and we are going to snuggle/you are going to play with your trucks/you are going to go to sleep for your nap, etc." He does beautifully with it, as he needs the warning to transition, and now, if he's just nursing to reconnect, he's usually off by the time I get to 8, and most of the time he lets me kiss him on the forehead before he runs off to play. :)

[Quietspirit]

Then I'll think I'll just try and refuse the first two, but I know he'll freak, so I'll just let him nurse until he quits wiggling and detach. Then when he is ok with that, maybe he'll just drop them himself and we'll move on from there.

Here's the thing:

If you want to night-wean him, then you are going to have to be firm. Be gentle but be firm. If you want to refuse the first two sessions and substitute cuddling or Daddy time, etc...then you are going to have to remain firm and do it. By giving in to him when he "freaks", you are not providing a firm boundary. This leads to an even more unsettled confused child. If the boundary doesn't remain firm, why bother to make it? It will only lead to confusion on his part and further frustration/resentment on your part. :/

[Joanne]

Yes, what Quietspirit said.

My sense from your posts here are that the nursing relationship has been a place where permissiveness had been present. I also sense you have a child who craves the absolute need for firm limits, or they feel less secure.

Here is a cut and paste from a post I wrote in the breastfeeding forum:

I understand. Remember that she's not asking to nurse. She's asking for *boundaries* and *security*. She's looking for you to be predictable, firm, and in charge. She'll keep looking for that feeling and security until she finds it. With some kids, there comes a time when on demand nursing creates neediness. It's hard for some moms to accept that. Often those moms have a portion of their identify invested in being an "AP" or "EN" mom. Other times, moms don't have a child whose insecurity is exacerbated by on demand nursing. They don't experience being held hostage, so they don't understand how nursing requests could be too much.

Here's a link to my "Nursing an Intense Older Child" blog entry. It really says everything I would say here.

http://morejo.blog-city.com/nursing_an_intense_older_child.htm

In your case, I'd be firm and expect drama for a while. And, yes, I'd listen to her cry for however long it takes. She's not crying because she wants to nurse. She's asking "Is this a limit I can really, truly count on?". It might take some time to convince her.

Here is a link to a post I wrote on neediness:

http://morejo.blog-city.com/neediness.htm

Here is one on permissiveness:

http://morejo.blog-city.com/permissiveness.htm

and here is one on high needs:

http://morejo.blog-city.com/high_need_children_made_or_born.htm

[arwen]

just some more :hug

[nutmeggmama]

i read all of the links joanne posted a month ago, and i have to say the firm limits (something i knew, but wasn't doing) completely changed the dynamic in our home, and everyone is so much happier. my 3yo was nuring on demand, which somehow became, without me realizing it, every hour, 20-40 mins. i was angry, resentful, and had NO patience left. i told selah, ok, you get to nurse at bedtime, and naptime. thats it. there were tears, but on the whole, it was a very positive thing.
:hugs