What's the problem with Sesame Street?

[MamaKanga]

I've heard people reference it, but I don't know what the objection to SS is. Can anybody fill me in? What are the reasons parents don't let their children watch this program?

[butterflyqueen71]

:popcorn

I grew up with SS...I loved it as a child. Granted, the format is different these days, and they've replaced my beloved Kermit the Frog with Elmo (who, yes, can be annoying sometimes :giggle) but on the whole, I see nothing wrong with the show. Many of the same people who were on it when I was little are on it now...Bob, Maria, Luis, Gordon...It's certainly better than some of the other kid's shows out there!

Curious to see other's input...maybe there's something I don't know? :shrug

[inesperada]

I *think* I heard an uproar a year or two ago that they were having Bert and Ernie "come out of the closet" and officially a gay couple. The Christian circles weren't happy, and I never knew if it was anything more than a rumor. :scratch

[MagnoliaMommy]

We have no qualms with Sesame Street either. :shrug

[joystrength]

Never heard that either.
We watch it alot, and we are WAY protective about what our DCs' eyes see.

From what I gather, they are just two guy roommates. I've NEVEER seen any gay references, except once during a music montage about family, they showed two men with a baby stroller in the park for about 1/2 a second. ANd there were LOTS of "real" families shown too. (I'm NOT PC, BTW!) ;) ;)

Curious to see if there's substantive info on this.

[Mother of Sons]

I think it was a rumor. I don't like the show because it is often so fast paced and switches from thing to thing and it drives me nuts. It did when I was a kid too. I've never told my kids they couldnt' watch it, they just don't.

[inesperada]

Yep, definitely a rumor. http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/gaymupp.htm

I don't have any problems with SS either, but that is the thing I was hearing in Christian circles. :shrug

[Piper2]

I remember hearing that some people had problems with some of the guest stars they had on there -- people who they didn't particularly want their children to see as "heroes" or get interested in. People like Rosie O'Donnell, Whoopi Goldberg, REM (mostly for homosexual associations, probably). But I've seen some kind of montage of guest stars all singing the same song (probably "Sing"), and of the ones I knew (I'm so not celebrity-savvy! :P), I didn't object to most of them -- who could resist the image of Noah Wylie sitting with Big Bird in his nest? ;)

I do remember being a bit :eek , though, even as a kid, when I first saw Stevie Wonder on SS singing "Superstition". I wondered if my mom was going to let us keep watching it -- she did. :mrgreen

[DogwoodMama]

i think Bert & Ernie are sort of like the "Odd Couple"- Walter Matthua and can't recall the other guy's name- definitely not gay though!

I know of some critques because of the "academic content" and the way it is presented, mostly by the anti-TV crowd. Personally I'm not bothered by that, but more by the "pace" which can be fast & jumpy, and some of the "urban feel" and music choices. However, I grew up watching it, & was an early and avid reader, so despite some reservations I have decided to let dd watch it. She has learned from it and for some reason is in love with Ernie, of all characters!

I really prefer Kermit over Elmo, though. :(

[butterflyqueen71]

and some of the "urban feel" and music choices

Just curious what about this would bother you? I actually like the music choices, they are very diverse from classical to hip-hop, opera, rap, salsa, country, etc...one thing about Sesame Street is that it is great at portraying and celebrating diversity of cultures, music, personalities, etc. Even in choosing different colors for muppets and their different temperaments.

Plus, Sesame Street is actually supposedly an "urban" area, is it not? :shrug I guess I'm wondering what about that would bother you?

[joystrength]

We have an Ernie lover here, too.
I like the diversity .. and the music choices.
I DON"T like Cookie Monster and his eating habits, though!

[DogwoodMama]

Honestly, it's the rap that they have on sometimes. :hiding I really don't like rap personally, so it kind of sticks in my head as a negative that I don't want dd to be exposed to at this age. The neigborhood in the city is fine, I like that, but it's not the whole world, kwim? I'd actually like to see more farm scenes, trips to different places & cultures. I like Grover b/c of that, he brings in some travel stuff.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, just my own personal bias here. :blush

[butterflyqueen71]

No offense taken, just curious! :) I guess it's that whole diversity thing again...rap, like it or not, is an "art form" so I guess they don't want to exclude that among the opera, country, etc.

I'm not a big rap fan myself...

[mamaKristin]

I loathe that Elmo is supposed to be 5 (or so I've heard) but is completely incapable of using a personal pronoun. (Or maybe I should have typed Kristin loathes that Elmo is supposed to be....) That's my issue with SS. Not a big one, but DS doesn't watch it often, it's on too early here.

[jujubnme]

I've actually heard that Elmo is supposed to be 3. :shrug (He's still pretty annoying, though. :neutral) Most of the objections I've heard have to do with their fast-paced editing and their supposed effect on attention and concentration skills. We haven't banned it in our house, but don't watch it regularly.

[rosesnsnails]

We didn't watch it often but stopped all together when Big Bird said "Darn, " while searching for Ernie. It wasn't something I wanted my three year old to repeat. :rolleyes

[RealLifeMama]

The main objection, so I have heard, is the fast pace editing and the effect it has on language skills.

We watch it, though. I usually have it on in the background as I am making breakfast.
I do find it interesting the music choices are pretty diverse. Today, they had The Goo-Goo Dolls, whom I love, so I was excited, LOL. I thought it was cute!

[AKCristyMJ]

Sorry I did not read all the posts, sorry if this was already said.

I heared on another christian msgboard the big hooplah about Ss is the monster aspect as in "Monsters are not funny, wether they are infact demons or my childs fears, I do not like monsters being a comical figure" sort of thing.

I guess on some level that is true.

I will admit tho I was a 22yr old adult preschool teacher before my boss mentioned Elmo was a monster, I honestly had no idea he was!! I guess I was the last to find out!

Lidia was and now Bethany is huge Elmo fans.
So we watch it.
Oh and yes Elmo is only 3, I know that for a fact. I've seen Ss way too much. :rolleyes

My mom said the Mr.Noodle guys one or both :shrug are gay and one of them died of AIDS recently. I do not know if that is true.
I do know SS, similar to Disney, does very much support gay rights and employs several. I dunno if that is as bad as Disney with an over 80% gay staff.
It also does kinda bug me the modern singers they bring on SS that do not play music I want my kids hearing when they are NOT on SS, kwim?
But we do not buy any SS merchandice so I hope that means we are not funding them in anyway then. :shrug

Bottom line, I do not hate or love SS. :shifty

[milkmommy]

I've heard people reference it, but I don't know what the objection to SS is. Can anybody fill me in? What are the reasons parents don't let their children watch this program?

Well personally I love the OLD ones like the ones I saw as a child they were better organized had a letter number theme and had kinda a flow too it. The new ones I think are too jumbled the move from on topic to another which I don't like for small children. I also dislike the elmos world thing. I don't hate the new ones but I'd rather pick something better.

Deanna

[Heather Micaela]

I prefer the sesame street videos becuse they are less jumpy than the show and focus on just one theme.

SS isn't half as jumpy as it was whn I was a kid. Seems like the segments are longer now and regularly seceduled mini-shows.

[DogwoodMama]

I wonder why they don't tone the pace down, since it's such a common objection. :shrug I think Baby Einstein and the Curious Buddies videos have a pace that i much prefer. It's just that dd loves the puppets on SS so much.

[cklewis]

:rolleyes The whole monster thing is to help kids get over the typical fear they have of monsters. Does it make ANY sense to say to a kid, "No, monsters are really evil and scary!" :doh Of course not.

I adore Sesame Street. I learned to read before the age of 3 because of that show (I was picking words out of the newspaper)! So I don't buy into the idea that it diminishes language skills.

I really think the key in children's programming is to find something that doesn't annoy the pants off the parents and that the kids enjoy. I haven't seen hide nor hair of Rosie O'Donnell in 20 mo (because she drives me bonkers), so SS does the trick in our house.

And I :heart Elmo!!

C

[joystrength]

My kids are watching SS right now. :hiding



And Elmo lives in the apt. below us. JUST KIDDING (we don't live in an apt.... :scratch) :laughtears

[AKCristyMJ]

Yeah I never got that "monster" thing. But I've heared a whole lotta christians boy-cott SS for that reason, and the gay rights thing.

I guess the idea is that "monsters" are really demons and/or fear and fear is of satan.
So I guess if you downplay a demonic/fearfull satanic connection to those "creatures in the closet" now then kids won't fear it later and dabble in the occult maybe. :shrug
Thats how it was exsplained to me over and over.
When I worked at a christian Baptist preschool we forbade anything connected to SS or Disney for those reasons......and the uhm gay rights one.
:shrug :scratch

[Aerynne]

We are not TV watchers, though I watched about an hour last night and the night before- New Orleans coverage. The last time a news event caused me to watch TV was the presidential debates (though we listened to one on the radio instead). Before that it was 9-11. So my point is it's a pretty rare thing. Anyway, I don't think Bert and Ernie are gay, but the pace is a problem for me, also the fact that a child is just sitting back being entertained (whether it's educational or not). I figure kids will learn to read, count, etc, anyway, so I don't need to use TV to make it happen any sooner. I don't want to mess with dd's attention span. Plus the AAP says toddlers need every minute of awake time to interact with real things and real people, so they say no TV under 2. My dd is under 2, but even when she's older, I'm not going to let her watch it. There are too many other valuable things to do, IMHO. Plus I don't like the way the marketing goes. There's the show, but then you can buy videos, books, shoes, clothes, etc, with characters on them, and that's just too commercialized for me. Even if we are given stuff with licensed characters as gifts, we donate it to charity. None of that stuff around here. I don't like SS, but I really really really hate Disney (and it's not because of the gay stuff. It's because of the violence, one-dimensional characters, predictable plots, etc)

[mamatogands]

re: cookie monster and his eating habits -- I just heard a thing on NPR about how they're starting a huge health kick on SS -- Cookie is going to learn the difference between "sometime foods" and "anytime foods"
:)

[cobluegirl]

weird...I have never heard any of this. I always thought Burt and Ernie were brothers.....as for the employing of homeosexuals...that doesn't bother me. They don't promote that lifestyle from what I have seen. One of the Mr. Noodle's did die last year but I do not believe it was from aids.

[AKCristyMJ]

Hate to burst your bubble Rachael....
http://www.muppetcentral.com/news/2003/040103.shtml
He was both gay and dying of HIV :(

He was quite the actor tho.
I've seen him in lotsa movies!! Superb actor.
Had no idea he was that old either!

[jujubnme]

As long as the show doesn't promote homosexuality, I'm not bothered by the sexual orientation of the actors. I mean, if we boycotted every show whose actors have extra-marital sex, there would probably be none left to watch. :shrug

[AKCristyMJ]

:tu
I agree.
We all gotta live together. :grouphug

I found this bout Disney:
http://www.gaydays.com/ I did not know Disney had a huge annual gay day parade. :(
I guess that clearly shows where they stand.
I could find nothing outright stating SS funds/promotes gay aspects, Jeter may've been their only gay actor. :shrug

It's no big deal, just important to keep your eye on and obviously emphasizes they are not pro-christian cartoons ofcource.

:popcorn

[bostonsmama]

we dont watch SS simply because we dont have cable. i do try to keep ds away from elmo (and other "addictive" characters..lol) just because i dont want the house full of the 10 billion elmo toys. i have no problem with people who buy elmo toys, i dont think its supporting a bad cause, etc. i just dont want them. and dh will not have it either. no elmo, no barney. not because we think theres anything 'wrong' with it. just our personal choice. i dont really think ive heard anyone on here say anything bad about SS or that they were boycotting it. maybe you just saw some of my "no elmo please" posts before regarding wanting books and videos? :hug

[cobluegirl]

:tu
I agree.
We all gotta live together. :grouphug

I found this bout Disney:
http://www.gaydays.com/ I did not know Disney had a huge annual gay day parade. :(
I guess that clearly shows where they stand.
I could find nothing outright stating SS funds/promotes gay aspects, Jeter may've been their only gay actor. :shrug

It's no big deal, just important to keep your eye on and obviously emphasizes they are not pro-christian cartoons ofcource.

:popcorn


yes they do...


as for the other..I stand corrected...I had no idea...He was a great actor. I loved him in The Green Mile.

[amstermarie]

I always thought Burt and Ernie were brothers
i always thought that too!!!!!

[AKCristyMJ]

Well...he always says, "My buddy Bert" :shrug

[cobluegirl]

well....in my house..my dd's calls their db "buddy"

[annetted]

We watch SS here too but not as much now that my boys are getting older. In Oz SS is on public television so there are no commercials. We have never bought anything SS in our house. I think its okay to watch something having to go and buy everything connected with it as well. Personally I think it was much better when I was a child. I thought that they were much better at teaching letters and numbers back then. I can still remember some of the songs for letters and numbers (and I'm 40 now :eek). It just seems that they tack it on at the end of the show now. IMO it just doesn't seem as educational as it used to be.

[joyfulmomsie]

I have a problem with cute cuddly monsters. After I read the book "A Landscape With Dragons" by Michael O'Brien, it made me think twice about literature or shows with "good" monsters/dragons/witches, etc. The point the book made is that our society is subtly and gradually redefining and blurring the lines between good and evil, and this is evident especially in children's literature. For hundreds of years, children's literature was almost uniform in it's portrayal of good and evil. Dragons, monsters, witches, sorcerers, and the like were universal symbols of evil. I don't think it's a coincidence dragons and monsters have become misunderstood or playful and cuddly creatures, or that sorcerers and witches are just everyday folks like you and me who happened to be born with certain powers.
I personally would rather keep monsters and dragons the evil symbols that they have always been and teach my children how to battle and overcome their fears, relying on God for help, than to teach them "see, they aren't really bad."

[cklewis]

Dragons, monsters, witches, sorcerers, and the like were universal symbols of evil.

Um. . . . monsters aren't REAL! They aren't "universal" either. Witches are one thing. But uh, if I start saying that flurpies are good or bad or whatever, what difference does it make? I made it up!

C

[BeckaBlue]

I will admit tho I was a 22yr old adult preschool teacher before my boss mentioned Elmo was a monster, I honestly had no idea he was!! I guess I was the last to find out!
if it helps, im a 22yo moma to 3 and didnt know they were considered monsters until your post :laughtears

[Benjaminswife]

:tu
I agree.
We all gotta live together. :grouphug

I found this bout Disney:
http://www.gaydays.com/ I did not know Disney had a huge annual gay day parade. :(
I guess that clearly shows where they stand.
I could find nothing outright stating SS funds/promotes gay aspects, Jeter may've been their only gay actor. :shrug

It's no big deal, just important to keep your eye on and obviously emphasizes they are not pro-christian cartoons ofcource.

:popcorn


Actually from what I have heard Disney just allows anyone to have a "day" rather than them starting the "Gay Days" I am not sure if they still do it but I know Disneyland use to have a "Praise Day" I went to it one year. We sang praise songs on the river.

I think when it comes to any company like that you have to look at the whole picture.

[AKCristyMJ]

Oh Becka, bless you!! :laughtears :highfive
lol

Yeah I always just thought they were a form of muppets/puppets an all, kwim?

Anyways, I think cartoons run into a dilemna.
They want funny characters and racially neutral charcherts.
Using animals can solve that but sometimes even then you throw in racial sort of symbolism, like have monkeys sort of act black or cows act kinda red neckish, kwim?
The muppets infact ran into that very problem did you know??
Heck even Ms.Piggy was getting slammed as seen as a stereotype of big people.

Using monsters really solved this for SS and might be why they have lasted so long and not faced alotta critism overall. :shrug

Every show ofcource has their own agenda and they most of all wanna last on TV and seem acepting of everyone. ThankGod not EVERY cartoon/childrens show is like that.
Even Mr.Rogers was a good example of a show that stuck to their guns so to speak. I always loved Mr.Rogers because it is very real, even with his puppet stage you know full well they are puppets infact Mr.Rogers made them all himself. The show leaves lotsa room for children to learn and imagine.
He truly was a genuis, I remember a show where his son brought on his grandson and I thought, "Ya know that kid has the best grandad ever!" lol

So I think that is what SS was after by using monsters.

Ofcource no cartoon will please every parents or every child.
I guess that is the summary of the SS debate. :/

[joyfulmomsie]

Dragons, monsters, witches, sorcerers, and the like were universal symbols of evil.

Um. . . . monsters aren't REAL! They aren't "universal" either. Witches are one thing. But uh, if I start saying that flurpies are good or bad or whatever, what difference does it make? I made it up!

C


What I said was that in children's literature, monsters are a traditional symbol of evil. The word 'monster' is more of a generic umbrella term, but yes, monsters are universal--every culture has their own version of monsters. Maybe the physical forms that a monster may take are not "real", but the evil and the unseen forces that they symbolize are very real. Something does exist that wants to harm my children!

The word monster appears not only in the dictionary, but also in various Bible translations (where the KJV translates it as 'dragon' and 'serpent'.) I don't believe that dragons are real, either, but I do believe that what they symbolize in the Bible is real.
Anyway, my point is, all of my children have been naturally afraid of 'monsters'. This is not something that I teach them, it's something that they seem to be born with. Even after having seen Monsters, Inc. and Elmo, they are still afraid of monsters. I don't want to take this natural fear away from them, instead, I want to teach them that God is greater and that He will protect them. Instead of saying "Don't be afraid of monsters, they aren't bad", I want to say "If you are afraid, pray and ask God to help you." Does that make sense?

My intent is not to argue, but to explain why it might bother a mom to see monsters portrayed as good. If you don't want your children to be afraid of monsters and want to make them cute and cuddly, that's your call! :peace

[cklewis]

What I said was that in children's literature, monsters are a traditional symbol of evil.

But this is a fiction. And if you REALLY study it out, it's quite clear that these "monsters" are used quite violently and punitively (like the wolf in LIttle Red Riding Hood) to frighten children into a silent obedience.

I frankly think it's a pretty good sign of a more gracious world when we have embraced monsters rather than insist that we use them to scare people.

C

[GodisGood]

I remember Peggy O'Mera writing about how SS is "sponsored" by Chuckie Cheese and McDonalds. That whole advertising to children issue.

[MommaRhe]

Well we no longer have a TV, but it seams I have a different issue with SS than others.

My issue is the count and things he says (ex. 'the suspence is KILLING ME') things I don't want my children to learn and repeat.

[Heather Micaela]

Well we no longer have a TV, but it seams I have a different issue with SS than others.

My issue is the count and things he says (ex. 'the suspence is KILLING ME') things I don't want my children to learn and repeat.


Why is that so bad? :shrug It's just an expression.

[kmcmomof3]

I thought I might add that they supposedly have added a muppet who is HIV positive. There was a big article in the paper once last year for SS 35th anniversary (which would have been last year) and it mentioned the new character. And even this link on snopes says it's real. They primarily air the episodes in South Africa since 2002, and it's supposed to help ban the stigma of children who've contracted HIV (apparently 1 in 9 people have been infected and many of them are children). They were also supposed to air these episodes in 8 other countries (I don't know which ones, though).

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/aidsmupp.htm

[milkmommy]

I thought I might add that they supposedly have added a muppet who is HIV positive.

Don't know if its true or not I avoid the modern ones but would this really have been a bad thing? :shrug

Deanna

[cklewis]

I thought I might add that they supposedly have added a muppet who is HIV positive.

Don't know if its true or not I avoid the modern ones but would this really have been a bad thing? :shrug

Deanna


Yeah. . . . I mean, so? :shrug

I watch the show nearly every day. Never have seen hide nor hair of an HIV-Positive character. Today I did see Donald Grump who has his name "Grump" on nearly every piece of trash on Sesame Street. He was looking for an Apprentice, and Oscar the Grouch won.

:laughtears :laughtears :laughtears :laughtears

C

[Boys and Angels]

Several things . . . and I hope I'm not starting a commotion.

First: About an HIV positive character. Is there really a problem with this? Then I have to say, with all due respect that you have been VERY lucky to live such sheltered lives. Where we lived our entire lives, and my children went to school, and where I work in the health care setting, and among disadvantaged youth and unwed mothers living in maternity homes and halfway houses, my children have had to learn about/know about children/babies/young women who were HIV infected their whole lives. One of the moms at the maternity home run by my church where I volunteered my time was HIV positive at the same time we were both pregnant in 1993. It may be very disturbing to you to know, but the truth really is that to many of the children WHOM THE SHOW IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR - - - the inner city children who would not get a lot of supervised learning time as preschoolers otherwise - - - live with HIV positive friends and relatives EVERYDAY of their lives. And it isn't just someone who knows someone who knows someone else. It's in their homes, their families, their buildings, their neighborhoods. For real.

The other thing I had wanted to address is the pace of the segments. This was done after careful investigation to childrens' learning styles and attention spans. The attention span IS short and that's why the segments are short, not that the short segments cause short attention spans like many people believe. We, as adults get jumpy in response to that, but the children respond very well AS A GENERAL RULE. Of course, children who are used to structure and sitting at activities for a long time MAY have a longer attention span, but, again, that is not the target population, or the USUAL 2 - 5 year old.

Have you ever really watched a child watch TV? The program doesn't hold the interest for them, not younger than about four years old or so. Unless it's a show like Barney, where they go from one song in one setting to another song in a different setting, and then a movement portion, etc, but that's basically the same "segment format." It's the COMMERCIALS that grab their attention and make them sit and watch. Many of the newer programs now, for children have adopted this format. They are in "segments" instead of the old 20 minute stroy line like "Leave it to Beaver" and things like that. Don't forget, in 1969, that was the idea of children's TV. Ok, so maybe the MICKEY MOUSE club. But you get the point.

And, talking about 1969. NOW you get the idea of Ernie and Bert. They were the natural outgrowth of the "Buddy" shows at the time, the easiest one to think of is the Honeymooners, or closer to 1969, the FLINTSTOMNES or really pinpointing the characters . . . The Odd Couple with Jack Klugman and Tony Randall. Their personalities were also totally Felix and Oscar-like. In the older shows, when I was a child (I am MUCH older than MOST of you) the segments were designed a bit tongue-in-cheek. Every skit appealed to the children on one level and to the adults who were BOUND to be around on another level. To see how they would "make fun" of the Odd Couple would prompt a parent to leave the TV on "for the kid" instead of changing the channel. Hence the importance of the adult-popular guest stars and segments. What kid really knew who Steive Wonder was? But the Moms and Dads knew. And watched to see who would pop up next. C'mon . . . Gladys Knight singing the alphabet, Yo-Yo Ma playing the cello with Telly playing the triangle. Placido Flamingo. Amazing writing, wonderful planning, but sadly, mostly very dull and boring and very "straight-out" there now. *sigh* I'm getting old.

[Heather Micaela]

awesome post Justina :)

[LadyBird]

I remember my favorite skits in SS when Grover would be the waiter and run back and forth to the kitchen repeatedly bringing the grouchy guy his meal, always getting it wrong. There was the teaching, and funny aspect to it.

I also miss the aliens that would flush the toilet and then hear the phone ring...they thought when they flushed it, it would make the phone ring....yup yup yup yup yup....

And what about the slowness of the skits. They weren't as fast paced as today. I miss that too.

They taught spanish, and the dilemmas between Big Bird and Mr. Snuffalupagus were always so cute. Big Bird was more of a teacher too back then.

The skits back then were longer, and it was more wholesome I think. If they have the old episodes out on DVD I will definitely buy them and let her watch those instead of the ones on now.

[kmcmomof3]

I don't recall saying an HIV character was a problem (I didn't realize it came off that way and wasn't trying to start anything). I just was wondering if anyone had heard/seen it. I actually would like to see how they handle it. I don't have anything against anyone who has HIV and was just wondering how they presented it. But until I read this article on why they were adding the character, I really didn't understand the great need for it as they do in some countries and ours too (though they still haven't aired it here, I guess). It does actually make a lot of sense to have the character. I'm sorry if it came off as offensive.

When I first saw this thread, I wondered if that is what the original question was about. I actually like most characters on sesame street and so does my two older girls who are quite fond of Elmo and Zoe (though I find her and baby bear to have annoying voices).

I loved the Grover the waiter skit when he would bring back a new alphabet soup letter for the grouchy guy on his furry little finger.

I also liked seeing Ben Stiller dressing up as a piece of cheese and singing People in your neighborhood, so I know what you mean about the famous people doing skits. It's kinda cool. I know the song with Gladys Knight you are talking about. I've seen it not too long ago, if not on the actual show, then on a video of some of their more popular skits.