Why is it that....

[Titus2:5Catholic]

It seems like most GBD books talk about how to prevent a tantrum, and how to work though a tantrum, but not how to stop a tantrum? :shrug

I've done a lot of reading, and maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like 99% of the focus is on prevention, with maybe 1% on what to do while your child is throwing the tantrum. And most of the solutions seem to involve hugging or ignoring, neither of which work with my daughter. And they all involve letting the tantrum continue.....

I realize prevention is better then intervention. But I need tools to stop a tantrum. I cannot accept the concept of simply allowing one to take place, especially in public. Ideas?

[DogwoodMama]

There isn't an on/off switch to tantrums in my limited experience... if you are *preventing* tantrums and working through them isn't that the best approach? If dd tantrums I try to remove her from the situation and calm her down... but she's only 19 months so there is nothing I can do to just *make* her stop, so prevention is best IMO... :shrug Maybe you're refering to older kids tantruming?

[Mother of Sons]

I share your frustration. I've found though that there really isn't anything that can stop a tantrum. At least not with my kids. I've stopped caring what other people think. I don't give in to whatever it is (if that's the situation, usually it's not) and I try to get them to a more private area.

When a kid is having a tantrum it means they aren't mature enough or unable at the moment to control their feelings and use appropriate methods of expressing it. (and sometimes I've found it's because they tried and no one listened) That's why it's important to teach better ways and that is going to take a lot of time.

During a tantrum, I just stay calm, speak quietly and change our location as soon as possible. If we are downstairs we go upstairs, inside, outside, if he's with me, I'll give him to daddy etc. Sometimes (at home) I reflect feelings and then say "I'm not going to listen to crying anymore. I'll listen to what you want to say when you are done" and then I go upstairs.

We've had to deal with some very public, very long night terrors. Most people think he's just having a tantrum (a horrible one) Nothing is going to end a night terror until the kid wakes up and you can't wake them up. I pretty much feel like tantrums are the same way. They aren't going to be over until they are over.

I know how you feel though when you just want it to stop and stop right this second. I do wish that some books would talk about it a little more too because I get really frustrated when they act like if you just did things right in the first place, your kids will never act up. That's not true no matter what parenting method you use.

[Katherine]

I've seen lots of GD ideas about how to *respond* to a tantrum. Trying to STOP a tantrum puts the focus on controlling our children's feelings and behavior... it's about controlling them rather than controlling ourselves and responding to them.
Maybe that's why you're not finding what you're looking for in a lot of PP books? :shrug

GD is more about teaching kids how to and helping them to bring themselves under control.. that's why there's a lot more focus on prevention, identifying the root cause, "managing" and working through tantrums rather than squashing them, and communicating both during and after.

And, FWIW, punitive parenting doesn't teach *you* how to STOP tantrums either. IOW, parents still don't have the "power" to stop it at will--otherwise, you'd never see a kid throwing a tantrum ever! :) When we punish, we are still making our kids bring their own behavior under control, in a sense... but they are doing it in response to pain, fear, and intimidation (which just cultivates feelings of rebellion and resentment on top of the original upset) AND they are usually not resolving the issue that started the tantrum to begin with. :(

[4blessings]

I agree with Elizabeth.

As I'm sitting here thinking of "solutions", the things that come to mind are preventive measures. LOL, b/c that's what has worked for my children. Realizing that it's difficult to stop a tantrum once it starts, I try to prevent them.

What age child are you talking about? My only experience with "public tantrums" were when my children were very little (like under 2). They rarely had them. The only times they really had a tantrum in public was when I had pushed them too far..they were hungry, tired, overwhelmed, etc. In those rare instances they had a public tantrum, distraction worked great to stop the tantrum. Maybe my kids are just simple and slow, LOL, but when they were two and under, they were very easy to distract with "Hey! Can you put these oranges in the sack for Mommy?" or "Look at that bird! What do you think his name is?", etc. Goldfish work well in the grocery, LOL!

As for tantrums at home, I'm comfortable letting them happen. I don't ignore them, and I don't the child control me with them, but I don't feel the need to insist that they stop, either. I haven't read any GD/AP material that suggests outright ignoring tantrums. Most of what I've read suggests reflecting feelings, hugging, and just generally helping the child through the tantrum, but not ignoring and walking away, per se.

[MarynMunchkins]

I share your frustration. I've found though that there really isn't anything that can stop a tantrum. At least not with my kids. I've stopped caring what other people think. I don't give in to whatever it is (if that's the situation, usually it's not) and I try to get them to a more private area.

When a kid is having a tantrum it means they aren't mature enough or unable at the moment to control their feelings and use appropriate methods of expressing it. (and sometimes I've found it's because they tried and no one listened) That's why it's important to teach better ways and that is going to take a lot of time.

During a tantrum, I just stay calm, speak quietly and change our location as soon as possible. If we are downstairs we go upstairs, inside, outside, if he's with me, I'll give him to daddy etc. Sometimes (at home) I reflect feelings and then say "I'm not going to listen to crying anymore. I'll listen to what you want to say when you are done" and then I go upstairs.

We've had to deal with some very public, very long night terrors. Most people think he's just having a tantrum (a horrible one) Nothing is going to end a night terror until the kid wakes up and you can't wake them up. I pretty much feel like tantrums are the same way. They aren't going to be over until they are over.

I know how you feel though when you just want it to stop and stop right this second. I do wish that some books would talk about it a little more too because I get really frustrated when they act like if you just did things right in the first place, your kids will never act up. That's not true no matter what parenting method you use.


:amen I don't touch my kids during a tantrum unless they are violent. Otherwise, I wait for it to wind down and we deal with the things that triggered it once they are calm. :)

[katiekind]

I used to hate tantrums, too, especially in public. But I wonder what this would look like:

stop a tantrum.

You're probably too young for this, but there used to be this show on TV called Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" with "Marlin Perkins" (http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/W/htmlW/wildkingdom/wildkingdom.htm"). It came on our black and white tv way back when when. Marlin Perkins was a zoologist who rode around in a Jeep in Africa filming elephants and lions and giraffes, and my brother and I just loved it. The main excitement of the show was when Marlin Perkins or his assistant would get out the gun and shoot the animal with a tranquilizer dart. Down would go the dangerous lion, sound asleep, and Marlin Perkins and his assistant could then go over to it and handle it. (I don't remember the reason they were handling the animals.)

Anyways, I've often thought some kind of tranquilizer dart like that... :think...

JUST kidding!!!

But seriously, since a tantrum is out-of-control feelings, I'm not really sure HOW you *stop* it. Prevention and management seem to be about the only two options. Are you concerned that if YOU don't stop it (somehow) the child will not ever develop the capacity to bring his behavior into socially defined limits? If so I'm here to reassure you that they do outgrow tantrums. :candle

[Katherine]

I LOVED that show!! (Does that make me old?) :shifty :lol

[TulipMama]

Like you said, so much of tantrum issues is related to prevention. I've found when my children's needs are being met, tantrums are so infrequent that they are basically a non-issue. And when they do occur, because these needs are met, the tantrums are much easier to address.

Alcoholics Anonymous used the acronym HALT, and one of the mamas here has expanded it to HALTED. This helps me remember the basic needs of my children. Especially when my very young children were hungry or tired, they were more prone to be triggered into a tantrum. With my older children, they don't tantrum but they are susceptible to not dealing with big feelings appropriately especially when discouraged/embarrassed/angry.

Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired
Embarrassed
Discouraged/depressed


It's been awhile since my boys have had a tantrum. But I remember that best response for us was for me to pull them onto my lap, hug them gently, and pray under my breath. When they started calming down, I could pray aloud. Hugs & prayer. My two-pronged approach to most discipline issues!

[OpalsMom]

I've never seen punitive advice on stopping a tantrum that worked, either: I'm sure we've all seen people hit screaming children, and surprise! the kid just keeps screaming. Ignoring works on some tantrums (and depending on exactly how you do it is advised by pretty well everybody, punitive or not), and keeps most of them from being any worse than they have to. DD is not yet into full-scale tantruming, but I used to babysit a kid who was (at 6). Eventually she stopped tantruming for me, by a combination of keeping her brother from tormenting her, and just not being moved by it. I did bear hug her because otherwise she hurt herself. But all the trying to stop her that her parents did just made it worse (or at least, after a month of babysitting after school, she didn't whine or tantrum for me, but she still did for her father, because it worked on her father).

If we get screaming fits or whatever in public, I'm embarrassed, but I try not to let it change what I do. My goal is not to make the next 5 minutes OK. I can endure the next 5 minutes. My goal is to make the next 50 years OK. A shorter tantrum today is absolutely not worth it if it gets me another tantrum tomorrow. (Or when she's 6!)

[Titus2:5Catholic]

Maybe it's because I'm dealing w/ 15-20 tantrums a day at times that finding a solution to make them stop is SO important to me.

GD is more about teaching kids how to and helping them to bring themselves under control.. that's why there's a lot more focus on prevention, identifying the root cause, "managing" and working through tantrums rather than squashing them, and communicating both during and after.


But what if the root cause is anytime you say the word "no"? Any time she wants something she can't have. Any time we have to transition her away from a fun activity.....she needs to be able to control her emotions SOME of the time. I've started to feel like we can't go anywhere that takes longer to drive to then 20 minutes (like Grandma's) or that is fun (like the park) or requires good behavior (like church) or might require a swift transition for safety's sake (like a walk)....

I wish I could teach her to not scream about everything, to communicate, to not throw herself down and scream at the top of her lungs about water verses juice or not being able to go in the bathroom. I've tried showing her "deep breaths"- she gets more frustrated. I've tried helping her to use her words- but we're pretty sure there is some language processing issues there. She has a lot of words, but i'm not entirely sure she knows what they mean....she does a lot of "drag and gesture" communication- tries to pull me in a certain direction or bring me something and gets frustrated when I can't guess.

It's really important to DH to have something to "do" when she starts tantruming, other then to stand there and look helpless. It is to me too....

[katiekind]

But what if the root cause is anytime you say the word "no"? Any time she wants something she can't have.

Is it a full-blown tantrum each time? Or is she just willing to put a lot of gusto into her protests? One of mine would go to the mat for anything--large or small. You know how people say, "don't sweat the small stuff"? Well, in my first toddler's eyes, there WAS no small stuff. Everything was hugely consequential to him. (And he's still rather like that today. But it also makes him the artist that he is. Every detail matters immensely. But now that he's an adult it's all on his shoulders to make his vision for a project work out.) His opinions were so strong that any time you crossed him, you were suddenly engaged with a melting down toddler--which forced you into this scenario that should have been so easy. As a pretty laid back person I found this extremely difficult.

Eventually I learned that:
A) regardless of my milder personality I had to stick to my original decision and
B) I had to retain a sense of proportion even if he didn't experience it that way. And
C) I had to guard against getting sucked into his emotional state and fueling it even more.

Does this sound familiar? Or am I barking up the wrong tree! :cup

[Irene]

I agree with what everyone else said but this stuck out to me:
Maybe it's because I'm dealing w/ 15-20 tantrums a day sometimes its more than just a discipline issue :hug and to quote Crystal ;) could be an organic issue at play- food intolerances etc... I know I was dealing with a screaming child (especially at age 2) who couldnt talk to me but wanted everything and oh it was just aweful :cry I totally hear you though :hug

I guess I can really see a difference with how food affects different children because my ds will be mad about something, but the screaming doesnt continue for forever, only for it to start up again as soon as you turn around, feeling like you're walking on eggshells constantly... I can totally handle his little angry outbursts ;) but hers were definitly over the top :eek

[Katherine]

Is it a full-blown tantrum each time? Or is she just willing to put a lot of gusto into her protests? One of mine would go to the mat for anything--large or small. You know how people say, "don't sweat the small stuff"? Well, in my first toddler's eyes, there WAS no small stuff. Everything was hugely consequential to him. (And he's still rather like that today. But it also makes him the artist that he is. Every detail matters immensely. But now that he's an adult it's all on his shoulders to make his vision for a project work out.) His opinions were so strong that any time you crossed him, you were suddenly engaged with a melting down toddler--which forced you into this scenario that should have been so easy. As a pretty laid back person I found this extremely difficult.

Eventually I learned that:
A) regardless of my milder personality I had to stick to my original decision and
B) I had to retain a sense of proportion even if he didn't experience it that way. And
C) I had to guard against getting sucked into his emotional state and fueling it even more.

Wow, Kathy!!! This is a perfect description of my older son. Exhausting, detailed, determined, persistant, smart, and artistic. I hope he'll be able to transform this into something amazing as he gets older, too! :D

Titus:

She's just turned 2, right? My younger son is only a couple months ahead of her, and he does a lot of screaming and shrieking to communicate, too. :banghead It's really hard on my ears (and psyche) but I realize that a big part of his frustration right now is exactly what you mentioned... just not being quite "there" with the verbal communication yet.

He knows he CAN communicate.. he understands words from other people, and he has a lot of words himself--some of which he uses regularly to let me know his needs... but in many cases, he just can't put together the specific words he needs at a given time, or he keeps saying something and I don't understand it, or he's too frustrated to use his words. And his emotional response to the word NO is exactly like what you described. He wants my house keys... No. SCREAMING. He wants a freezer pop... No. SCREAMING. Sometimes I can provide an alternative.. he has 2 sets of keys he CAN play with... or he might accept raisins instead of a freezer pop. Other times, he is furious.. refuses to be comforted or distracted, and I try to just let him air his feelings as long as he's not hurting anyone. :shrug

It does get better.. I remember when my oldest turned 2 (and I had a 3 month old) :eek I was just beginning to transition away from punitive parenting and I felt like I couldn't go anywhere, couldn't do anything, couldn't manage my kids, could barely get through the day sometimes. :( It got better... it took some time, but it did get better. :hugheart

Some suggestions/questions...

Distract and redirct was still the most effective thing for my boys at age 2. It's hard to be creative sometimes, I know. I'm personally not good at thinking on my feet during a tantrum or "situation" but practice makes progress. :) (I just started reading Playful Parenting this week... WOW! Only 50 pages into it and I'm blown away) I had to make a list of things they could do during the day to get us out of a funk, and keep it posted on my .... bathtime, playing in the sink, painting, healthy snacks, jumping on beds, games of chase, going outside were all good ways to get them "unstuck" from a tantrum that just wouldn't quit. Holding or hugging is not much of an option for my guys.. they get more frantic and angry.. so I save that for when they've calmed down a bit.

With riding in the car.. I wonder if she gets motion sickness or has some other issue like that? My 2yo travels MUCH better now than he used to, but for at least a year and a half, I absolutely dreaded going anywhere b/c he always just cried/screamed. I came to the conclusion through trial and error that it was a combination of factors, including stomach distress (he gets gas easily and not being able to move around often trapped the bubbles in his tummy), travelling at night (city is so-so b/c everything is lit up around us, interstate is horrible b/c it's blackness with lights streaking by, country is the worst b/c there's no light and nothing to see), and riding backwards--possibly he is prone to motion sickness. We now make longer trips ONLY during the morning and take movies, snacks, kid's songs, etc. If I know we're doing a trip that's more than he can handle I even pull out the "big guns"--lollipops. :cool I didn't want to spend the money on a mobile DVD player, but it has been worth every penny for surviving long trips. He used to fuss riding in the daytime, too, but I think he just had developed horrible feelings about travelling in general. Once we corrected the "big offenders" he became much more relaxed with riding in general. oh, yeah, and we also bought him a different car seat when he was around 15-18 months, and that seemed to help a lot too. I think his old one just wasn't comfortable and reclined too much. Just some things to consider.... if it's a constant problem, there may well be a reason behind it.

How long have you been using GBD instead of punishing/spanking? It does take some time for kids to absorb the change, and it can be upsetting to them when the "rules" of everyday living seem unstable. Maybe she is just trying to find out where the "new" boundaries are and what to expect when X, Y, or Z happens. ?? I

Does consistency/predictability seem to help her? My older son would throw some of his worst fits over things like leaving my parents' house, handing the phone back after being allowed to say Hi to Nana, or stopping something he really liked/wanted to do. He made it such an ordeal that I would often wait forever before trying it again--it just wasn't worth the hassle! Finally, instead of avoiding everything and trying so hard to restrict him or deny him things in order to manage the behavior, we started giving him more leeway and doing things more often. To my amazement, he settled down! He learned to trust in the fact that we really WOULD be back to see Grammy soon and stay for awhile, he really COULD talk on the phone again tonight or tomorrow, we WOULD go back outside to play again after naptime, I WOULD let him paint again this week (instead of waiting a month b/c it's such a pain) ;) It took some patience on our part while he learned to trust in us, and some time for him to see the pattern and relax into it... but it really helped a lot. Knowing what to expect is still a big deal for him... if he usually gets juice in the morning and I don't have any one day, you can expect some waterworks. Restricting his activities at age 2 b/c couldn't seem to handle it or "behave well" just backfired on me, b/c he didn't learn how *TO* act. If I had it to do over, I would try taking him to the park and to the store and to church MORE often instead of less, even though it was stressful to manage.... so he could learn and practice how to behave there. :shrug Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm sorry it's happening so often. :( I'm sure you've probably considered food issues, too, and that takes some time to work through... Two can be a frustrating age... the tantrums with my oldest improved as his verbal skills developed and we kept working on communication. :heart

[ArmsOfLove]

neither of which work with my daughter I think that the first thing that would be helpful is to consider how you are defining "work" in this instance. Those things *do* work--for what they are intended to do. I don't advocate for *ignoring* the behavior, but I do believe in not getting sucked into it emotionally and giving a child who isn't hurting anyone a respectful amount of space. I do advocate for hugging if the child needs to be comforted and/or is hurting someone because that prevents them from doing damage (preventing a natural consequence they aren't in a position to deal with). They work for their intended purpose ;)

Sounds like what you're really saying is, "I can't figure out how to prevent them so I'm trying to find some effective way to make them stop." But the reason 99% of the information deals with prevention is because *that* is where you can be 99% effective with *most* children. But if you've got a child who won't work with you on preventing them, then do you really think there is going to be an effective way to *stop* them? Prevention is all the stuff you can do *before* they are over the top--If a child can't be stopped from getting over the top then it's even more work to try and bring them back down :shifty

I agree with evaluating with whether by *tantrum* you mean full blown knock down drag out meltdown fit or a passionate protest. That really would determine how I'd respond. With a passionate protest I'd simply repeat my boundary, reflect some feelings, and hold to my position. If it's a knock down fit then I remove the child to a safe place for them to have their feelings--in an effort both to not draw undue attention to myself, and even moreso, to protect them from a public scene. I see it as my responsibility to respect their dignity and teach them the *tool* of stepping away when your feelings are too intense. I also find that when my children are given some private space they calm down much more quickly *and* I'm less worried about what other people will think.

If full blown fits are occuring at the number you indicated then I'd suspect something more is wrong. The solution could be as simple as more sleep or restructuring your day or as serious as some diet or lifestyle changes or something more. I can't know :shrug Could you share more detail about a typical fit? What leads up to it, what occurs around it, how it finally does end--help me see a better picture of what is going on so I can help you work on changing it?

[4blessings]

Wow, Crystal. Great response. You have such a gift! I think many of the same thoughts you do, but you're so good at writing it all out and having it make sense. If I tried to say what you just did, it would have been the longest post ever.

[ArmsOfLove]

:O thank you

I really love what I do :)

[OpalsMom]

But what if the root cause is anytime you say the word "no"? Any time she wants something she can't have. Any time we have to transition her away from a fun activity...


Those aren't root causes. Those are the opposite of root causes ("proximate causes" is the relevant term). If you're having a lousy day and you haven't had any sleep and your head hurts and your husband comes home and says "Boy, it's messy around here", and you say "I hate you! Why do you do nothing but complain to me!", your husband's comment isn't the root cause. It's the proximate cause. Your feeling awful is the root cause. So it's not really going to help if he avoids making the comment, but it might help if he got you an aspirin and let you take a nap.


I wish I could teach her to not scream about everything, to communicate, to not throw herself down and scream at the top of her lungs about water verses juice or not being able to go in the bathroom. I've tried showing her "deep breaths"- she gets more frustrated. I've tried helping her to use her words- but we're pretty sure there is some language processing issues there. She has a lot of words, but i'm not entirely sure she knows what they mean....she does a lot of "drag and gesture" communication- tries to pull me in a certain direction or bring me something and gets frustrated when I can't guess.


Now that's a root cause! You could try adding signs, to see if that helped her communicate. Or seeing how much you can do with pictures. Picture schedules, pictures for choices, pictures of things she often wants... But it is true that one of the ways that you teach her to use words is by not accepting screaming as a valid form of communication, which is an awful lot like ignoring.


It's really important to DH to have something to "do" when she starts tantruming, other then to stand there and look helpless. It is to me too....


Reading a book is always good. Or praying. If you're trying ignoring the tantrum, you don't stand there and look helpless. You do the minimum intervention necessary to insure nobody gets hurt, you say whatever you're going to say, and then you do something else. With a 2 YO, I've been known to read children's books aloud to myself rather loudly. With the 6 year old, if she wasn't going to hurt herself or break anything, I just pulled out a book and read. Note: both these cases are kids where I had tried soothing them and found it only made things worse. Ignoring isn't what I'd try all the time, and I do try to get kids into safe, private places. These were kids who were accustomed to getting something by tantruming, and they needed to know that I wasn't going to change the rules or otherwise play the tantrum game. If your DD is tantruming because she's frustrated and miserable, ignoring isn't going to help. But most things that look like "doing" aren't effective with somebody who's too upset to pay attention, so it may be hard to find something that feels right for you.

[Titus2:5Catholic]

Wow! Everyone's replies are so great. Thank you for pulling me back to my focus

I know there are some likely possible problems. She is about a year developmentally delayed in most areas- I just got back the report of her evalutaion and her highest level was gross motor skills at 18 months (she's 26 months). Some possibilities that have been mentioned are PDD-NOS or high functioning autism. There is a stong sensory componant. We're also having her hearing checked because she does not respond consistantly to sounds on her right ear.

We're looking at as long as 6 months before a diagnosis, and I realize it's going to take a while for therapy to work. But there's GOT to be something I can do with her in the meantime. They're goign to be staring OT and PT before she gets diagnosed, and we're having her hearing checked this Thursday, so there's hope on the horizion.

I think what this really comes down to is me. In the last three weeks my priests have preached two sermons on parenting and how they don't want kids taken out much during Mass, but they don't want them to make noise either, and this really Pearl-esque view of parenting. DH is actually calling the priests to talk to them about it, and it takes a LOT for him to get upset enough over something to do that. Then a friend of mine said my daughter looks like a spoiled brat. She apologized and said that the problem came over her own guilt because she hadn't got her son evaulated who needs it, but it still stings, you know?

We're trying to use more signs, thinking of making a picture book, etc. I can tell she is frustrated by her lack of ability to communicate. Like yesterday, she brought me her sippy cup and said "please". I went to the fridge and opened up, and I thought she gestured to flavored water, so I poured her some. Well she wanted milk and I could see in her face that my mistake was just too much when she had tried so hard to tell me, so she threw the cup down, threw herself down, and started screaming. I pulled her up, make her look me in the eye, opened the fridge, and pointed to each of the different drinks until she tried to pull the milk towards her. That calmed her down.

She does not accept redirection at ALL. Any redirection will result in her collapsing or physically fighting and screaming. It only last 3 minutes or so, but when it's constant- and she's great at going from climbing on the table to eating dirt or something where I have to redirect her again.

Could you share more detail about a typical fit? What leads up to it, what occurs around it, how it finally does end--help me see a better picture of what is going on so I can help you work on changing it?

Here's an example. She goes into the pantry and says "cracker". She's already had several crackers this morning, so I say "no more crackers" and shake my head no. She stays in the pantry stomping her feet and saying "cracker", getting increasingly frustrated. I go and say "no more cracker, time to go" (shaking head no, and pointing with our "go" sign) and take her hand to lead her out. She does her imitation of a mule and cranks up the volume. I have to drag her out and shut the door. She collapses on the floor and screams. No matter what I do, it'll end in a few minutes, but she'll walk around upset and whimpering to herself, and then any little thing sets her off again. :(

[TulipMama]

Oh, hon. . . *hug* Sounds like a *lot* more is going on that toddler fits. Praying that you get a sound diagnosis and good direction in OT/PT. A friend of mine has twins, and her daughter was dx'd with autism when she was about your daughters age. She's researched and implemented a lot of strategies--and her daughter (now 6) has made amazing strides.

It sounds to me like the communication frustration is really key in a lot of the tantrums--even the ones in which she's communicating clearly and you're simply saying no, like with the cracker. You know the days when you're feeling on edge and a bit cranky (PMS days for me) and then *anything* will set you off? It sounds like the communication frustration is providing a low-grade constant stress, and that leads to small things being triggers to tantrums.

I think you are on the right track, though. The example of the milk and clarifying what she wanted was helping her feel secure that you *understood* her. With the way you're talking about incorporating more signs, pictures, etc--I think those things will help minimize the communication frustration and then the low-grade constant stress, and eventually lessen the tantrums.

*Hug* And I'm so sorry you've had the extra stress placed on you with the recent teachings at church about children. I'm glad your husband is standing up for you and your child.

[katiekind]

Oh, Sara, I am sorry you ARE dealing with a lot. I was barking up the wrong tree, and I think you're on the right track getting these things evaluated. Being that age and having difficulty communicating with the people you love would be very frustrating--I think Tulipmama's right....

Plus the strain on you to have your priest exerting pressure...(not to mention what your friend said) ...I'm sorry. It's easy enough to start second-guessing yourself without pressures like these.

Your daughter has a sensitive, resourceful, loving mother with a good head on her shoulders--you'll get through this.

[MarynMunchkins]

:hug I understand. Doug is being evaluated for bipolar. It's frustrating to hear them screaming, threatening to hurt you or run away, or threaten to kill themselves :eek because you say "only one scoop of ice cream". :rolleyes :(

Try teaching how to react when you're both calm. We do a lot of playing and expressing emotions. Playful Parenting is a great book to learn how to do that, and he's also in therapy with a play therapist. :tu

[Katherine]

((((( Sara ))))

Sorry you're having to deal with all this. :hugheart Just wanted to throw in a book suggestion... Special Diets for Special Kids: Understanding and Implementing Special Diets to Aid in the Treatment of Autism and Related Developmental Disorders

She shares her own experiences with her autistic son, and explains a lot about how diets affect everything from autism spectrum disorders, celiac disease, ADHD, etc. to more common things like food allergies and sensitivites. She has a lot of great theory and detailed explanations in the first half, and some really practical recipes in the second half.

Might be something to try while you're waiting for the slow process of diagnosis and treatment. :shrug

Hope things start to improve for your family soon. :hug :heart

[ArmsOfLove]

My ds has Asperger's (it was not officially dx but he fits it to a T). I'd encourage you to hang out in our children with special and medical needs forum and maybe hang out reading some posts there. Before we figured out what was wrong and went to a gluten free/casein free diet (which controls his symptoms at least 90%) I felt like I was a POW. There were some days he woke up shrieking and would fall asleep late at night *still* screaming. There were days the best I could hope for was to have him screaming about different things throughout the day and not just the same thing that first set him off :shifty I had people think that I was making excuses for his behavior, or that I should do this or that to make him knock it off.

What really helped (other than the diet change which is #1 imo) was doing OT with him. I had to teach him appropriate emotional responses (this is a smile, people do this when they are happy or enjoying themselves. I can see from your smile that you are happy.; This is a frown, people do this when they are sad or aren't liking what you are doing. It's a way to say *stop* with your face. Can you see my face? I'm not liking what you are doing.) I taught him volume control when he was 4. THIS] is a 10; this is a 1 (and everything in between). I taught him appropriate reactions. X is a 10; Y is a 1. What just happened to you is more like a 3--that is like (this).

And it really helped me to realize that this was as frustrating to him as it was to me--maybe moreso :cry I always said he was born to be 5--and sure enough, when he turned 5 he became so much happier because he could communicate his wishes so much better! But it's more than that with him--he gets an idea in his head of what something is supposed to be or look like and if it doesn't then he just doesn't know how to cope :( It shakes his foundation to the core. What's really important, and he can share this with me now, is knowing that we're here for him to help interpret his world to him and him to the world. And now he is able to go out without us and navigate groups and get along with people with only the occasional hiccup :)

[Mother of Sons]

I know there are some likely possible problems. She is about a year developmentally delayed in most areas- I just got back the report of her evalutaion and her highest level was gross motor skills at 18 months (she's 26 months). Some possibilities that have been mentioned are PDD-NOS or high functioning autism. There is a stong sensory componant. We're also having her hearing checked because she does not respond consistantly to sounds on her right ear.

We're looking at as long as 6 months before a diagnosis, and I realize it's going to take a while for therapy to work. But there's GOT to be something I can do with her in the meantime. They're goign to be staring OT and PT before she gets diagnosed, and we're having her hearing checked this Thursday, so there's hope on the horizion.

This sounds just like how was. Almost to a "T" except that he was at a 15 month level when he was 27 months. My suggestion on what to do now is to take her off of all dairy right now. I think that's the easiest one to start with and it's very common. Especially if she loves dairy products like milk and cheese, yogurt etc.

also had tantrums nearly constantly all day long. People thought he was a brat and I was a bad mother. He would bang his head on the floor over and over.

The things that helped him were

no dairy
brushing therapy (your OT can show you this)
weighted blanket
sign language
OT and speech

One thing that I learned was to make exaggerated expressions. "You sure are angry right now!" (while copying his expression) Also instead of repeating "no you can't have a cracker" I would say "You really want a cracker." "You are angry because I won't let you have one"

More later.

[Winkie]

I agree with the pp's, but had one thought to add She goes into the pantry and says "cracker". She's already had several crackers this morning, so I say "no more crackers" and shake my head no Maybe changing your language would help? From Dr Sears - here are 18 ways to say No positively: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t061100.asp

[Irene]

You sure are angry right now!" (while copying his expression) I have tried this on my dd and she gets *really* offended about this! why?! I have read this before and have tried it but wow, it makes everything worse (the copying, not the telling her shes angry-that part works) I guess I should just leave well enough alone, but just wanted to make the comment/question :think