Why do spankers adamantly insist that...

[This Busy Mom]

Spanking isn't hitting? I hear this all the time and I don't understand it.

I have a hard time relating to them because to me it is hitting. I try not to get into spanking discussions, but it does happen.

I usually stare at them like they have two heads. I guess I should ask them "if it's not hitting, then what IS it??"

My dh insists it's not hitting. Or at least he used to. I guess I should propose this question to him. He probably would say "discipline." Then we would get into a discussion about discipline and punishment... he's only changed perspectives because I've talked to him about it over and over again. I'm really not a good debater...

[ShowersofBlessings]

I don't get that argument either. I guess they are thinking that "hitting" means abusing and they aren't abusing their children. :shrug But they are hitting. It must be the connotation (not the dictionary definition) that people have a problem with. Hitting usually (always?) means violence. So they don't like to think that they are being violent with their dc. But again, I have never btdt, so I am only going with what makes sense to me.

If someone told me that spanking did not equal hitting, I would say, "Great, if I can spank without hitting, then I'm all for that. :rolleyes"

[MarynMunchkins]

Because everyone knows that hitting small children is wrong. :shrug As long as spanking is different, it's okay.

:/ The intent behind an action doesn't change what it is. I can poison dinner in order to kill dh, or I can leave the chicken out for too long because I was careless and it will breed salmonella. Either way, he's sick and in the hospital. What I meant doesn't affect what happens to him. :)

[ArmsOfLove]

When people are stuck in the adversarial dynamic of needing to find blame then it's very difficult for them to be confronted with something they are doing wrong. They teach their children that hitting is wrong, they punish their children for hitting, to suggest that what they are doing is hitting is to confront them with the reality of what they are doing and they have to reject that outright. It's too personal. It speaks to the heart of what they are doing. When they have bought into the idea that God says they have to do this then the struggle becomes, "Hitting is wrong; God says I have to hit my child; God is wrong" and rather than question their understanding of what God really says, they simply choose to not go there (if the pastor says it, and Dobson says it, and my father said it, who am I to say they are wrong?) and when faced with God being wrong or you being wrong they are going to go with you being wrong--which means they can blame you for being permissive and they can ignore you and go about what they are doing.

[UltraMother]

Great, if I can spank without hitting, then I'm all for that.

:mrgreen

[This Busy Mom]

I've heard the "spanking is not hitting" argument a lot. I brought it up to my dh tonight, and although we have a truce in the house... he still adamantly says the same thing. He says that it's done "out of love." I don't agree with that. I don't see love, I see an angry adult who wants their way no matter what. I guess that's probably the same in other people's houses (I can remember being spanked one time by my mother and that's it... so this concept is really foreign to me).

The more I study my bible, the more I see what grace really means and that Jesus died so that we wouldn't be held to the letter of the law, but he was sent to uphold the law. If I see that and what it means in a relationship with my children, why don't others see that? My dh just got introduced to this concept. If I get him to understand it, then he'll be better at showing it to other people. I'm not so good at it. I just get out of the conversation once we hit the "spanking is okay" wall. I don't know what to say after that.

[Heather Micaela]

When I spanked I did it because I HAD to (I thought) and yes in love. Was I angry at times? Yes 95% of the time. Did I do it ti get back at my kid? 50% of the time. Did it bother me to do? absolutely. Did it work? Absoulutely not.

And because I was dealing also w/ anxiety and depression, when the kids were not in control and my mind was not either I crossed the line somtimes into true hitting -even by a spankers standards. That was the wake up call. I could not spank. Maybe others could but not me. The verbal "spankings" I recieved from my dad were manisfesting in physical form when I disciplined. The verbal insults became literal slpas in the face (not ofen, please don't misunderstand) I hated myself and needed another way but was not aware of one.

You have to remember to assign positive intent to spankers. They ususally don't know any better and think that not punishing=permissive. They don't want thier "way" so much as we want to make sure our kids aren't desitined for a life of crime and and etrnity in hell. It is a huge switch in thinking that there is another way to accomplish it.

The one that got me is: if spanking is okay and mandated, why are there some that have an out (those who have parents who were previously abused) - and what is the fate for those kids then?

I think it best to focus on other forms of disclipline and their effectiveness. If it lessens spanking, that, in the very least, is a good thing.

[Katherine]

he still adamantly says the same thing. He says that it's done "out of love."

I used to believe the same thing--love and obedience to God. It can certainly *start* "out of love"--a parent who truly loves and wants the best for their child and believes that this form of discipline is God's command--given b/c it is what is best for their child. When I first started spanking, it was wrenching.. so SO hard to make myself do it... b/c I *was* trying to do it out of love, and it just doesn't go together. It didn't take long, though, for my own sinfulness and selfishness to contaminate the whole thing. Eventually, though I didn't realize it and would have adamantly denied it, other motivations had crept into my actions... control, anger, desparation, social pressure, etc. I never believed--until I tried to stop--that spanking had become a release of frustration for me.

There are plenty of things that we can do for our kids with the best of intentions that are still not good for them.:

Think of the interfering mother who is convinced she is loving her child by doing everything for him.
Think of the parents who follow the doctor's advice to put their child through a painful and unnecessary procedure.
Think of the parents who push their children too hard to excel academically or athletically b/c they believe their future hinges on it.

In some cases, we research and seek answers and do everything we possibly can to make a good decision, and in the end it still turns out to be not the best. That's life. In other situations, we don't seek or search or do the work required to find a better answer--we are unwilling to take a hard look at our OWN hearts/intentions, or not willing to deal with the fallout from choosing an alternative...

With spanking, it is scary for a parent who strongly believes it is Biblical to reconsider b/c it seems they are questioning the foundations of their faith. We come to believe the Bible is SO CLEAR on it... if we have misunderstood this, what else are we also wrong about?? However, there are so many wonderful resources to help parents understand, re-frame their beliefs, and move away from punitive parenting. The resources are all around us, and if God is leading us toward them, we must find the courage and humility to see the truth for our children's sake.

Usually when we have to put our children through something difficult and painful "out of love" or because it is best for them, we are right by their sides... supporting them, crying with them, encouraging them, doing everything in our power to ease their pain and lift them up through the process. If they fight it, we might have to hold them down or refuse to change our minds, but we do it with compassion and sympathy.

That's not usually how spanking goes, IMO. When we spank, it is us against them. We are not trying to ease their pain, help them through it, or comfort them... we want to CAUSE pain in the name of teaching a lesson. We want to dominate, prove our point, set them straight, make them feel sorry for disobeying us. :( If a child fights back against a spanking, it is not met with sympathy and compassion.... rather more fury, righteous indignation, and even physical violence, b/c they are "defying our authority." :bheart

I understand your dh's position cause I've btdt. I hope that your example and God's grace will eventually help him to see things differently. :hug2

[IslandMama]

I've heard the "spanking is not hitting" argument a lot. I brought it up to my dh tonight, and although we have a truce in the house... he still adamantly says the same thing. He says that it's done "out of love." I don't agree with that. I don't see love, I see an angry adult who wants their way no matter what. I guess that's probably the same in other people's houses (I can remember being spanked one time by my mother and that's it... so this concept is really foreign to me).

I'm a former spanker, and I have to say that not all parents that spank do it out of anger... The rule in our house was not to spank if angry, and we were really good at not doing that. Also, we would comfort the child and hold them after the spanking... Not to say it is right, bcuz now I don't spank. God has opened my eyes to alot of things, and now I regret it (going on my 5th child!). But I did spank because I thought it was biblical, and I was obeying God, and doing what was best for my children... And I would say it was out of love. So I can see the other side of the argument... Is spanking hitting? I would now say, yes, even if it is "controlled" hitting... But in a spanker's mind (a Christian one) they may justify it because they do believe it to biblical. JMO...

[raisa]

Since I've learned on these message boards that speakers of British (and Australian? forgive me if I'm wrong) call it "swatting" and "smacking," I like to bring that up in these conversations. "Yes, Americans call hitting your child on the bottom spanking. In England they say smacking. It doesn't really make a difference what it's called, does it?"

[To me as an American, "smacking" sounds much less controlled and respectful, if that's possible].

[AKCristyMJ]

Yeah like domestic abuse is a "Lovers spat" :rolleyes

I've argued spanking with so many hard core spankers.......it goes round and round.
Eventually I just go to :pray

[J3K]

I never HIT my child. I spanked. Controlled. I wasn't angry. I still see spank and hit as two totally different things.
and it's not out of defense of what I used to do. I'd be the first to stand up and say spanking doesn't work , it breaks trust between the parent/child , and many people don't know how to do it correctly.

I never hauled off and HIT the child. I see so many parents who HIT their children and call it spanking. I saw one dad grab a wooden spoon and begin to swing it wildly aiming for anything that would make contact. He called it spanking. That is NOT spanking.



My dictionary says to spank is "to slap on the buttocks" This is spanking. Fleshy part of the butt. To cause a sting. Not to leave a mark.

I have seen spanking done correctly. talk , warn , spank , hold , discuss what happened and why.

I've also seen full grown men backhand their sons across the face ,knocking the child to the floor and call it spanking. Yelling , yelling some more , hit , say 'it better not happen again' and call it spanking.

I'm not advocating spanking. Honest I'm not. I don't like to be looped in with the thinking that all spankers are really just angry hitters. Just like now as a gentle disicpliner I don't like to be looped in with permissive parents.

[Heather Micaela]

I also wanted to clarify my post a bit. My intent was always to spank w/o anger.


When I spanked I did it because I HAD to (I thought) and yes in love. Was I angry at times? Yes 95% of the time. Did I do it ti get back at my kid? 50% of the time. Did it bother me to do? absolutely. Did it work? Absoulutely not.

I did not spank w/ anger 95% of the time becuse of offenses of my DS but becuse I was always angry. I made dinner angerily, I gave baths angrily, a put them to bed angrily, becuse I was depressed and not myself.


My dh might have bene angry at what the kids did but would be calm when he spanked. There are so many ex-spankers and recovoerng spankers here that it is unfair to catgorize them all togehter.

I am friends with many people who spank in one degree or another. Not are to the extreme like Pearl though. And I think that these families surround their children with so mauch love and grace in other circumstances that the kids do end up "just fine" despite the spankings. However, I always wonder how much better the realtionship could be WITHOUT the spanking.

[ShowersofBlessings]

I don't disagree that people can spank "in anger" or "in love." The intent of the spanking does not change the definition of spanking though....

Spank to strike especially on the buttocks with the open hand

Hit (one of many definitions) to strike a blow

So you can hit without spanking, but you can't spank without hitting.

[ArmsOfLove]

I never hauled off and HIT the child. . . .
I'm not advocating spanking. Honest I'm not. I don't like to be looped in with the thinking that all spankers are really just angry hitters. Just like now as a gentle disicpliner I don't like to be looped in with permissive parents.


Jennifer--first, I can TOTALLY respect where you are coming from here! Please know that.

At the same time, you offered this definition of "spank" as "to slap on the buttocks"

This is what the thesaurus at dictionary.com has for "slap" Main Entry: slap
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: hit
Synonyms: bang, bash, blip, blow, box, buffet, bust, chop, clap, clout, crack, cuff, pat, percuss, poke, potch, punch, skite, slam, smack, sock, spank, strike, swat, wallop, whack, wham
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
emphasis added

I understand that the word 'hit' has very serious connotations--especially in the spanking Christian community. However, a slap *is* a hit. We're not using the word (at least I'm not) to condemn, judge, or lump spankers in with abusers. I'm using it because it's technically correct and I believe if more people would realize that spanking *is* hitting then they might reconsider their defense of it.

:hug

[This Busy Mom]

Ok... this all gave me something to chew on...

I shall keep up my "spanking IS hitting" argument and continue to show how discipline without hitting should look. I think sometimes I'm just too blunt. It makes people very uncomfortable with me sometimes.

BTW, I am a very emotional person, and I would never be a good "non-emotional" spanker. I have never had God convict me that I should hit my kids, and as I've grown closer, I've found the opposite. I would also make a horrible actress :giggle .

[Heather Micaela]

Ok... this all gave me something to chew on...

I shall keep up my "spanking IS hitting" argument and continue to show how discipline without hitting should look. I think sometimes I'm just too blunt.


:tu defintely. I would just pray before you speak to people and not turn the "Spankins is hitting" into a debate. I would just bring it up and then focus on how children and adults both need the grace of the Lord. Most parents want the best for their kids, if you show them a better way without focuing on the hitting, some will come around eventually. I am living proof to that.

[This Busy Mom]

I'm glad I asked this before this past weekend. We belong to a biker ministry and my dh helped organize a biker weekend. I spent quite a bit of time talking to moms about "hands off" discipline and why I think it's important. All of the women I talked to who had either divorced their husbands or were long term separated (and raising their kids alone) said they left because of abuse. I talked a lot about anger, too. These guys coming out of bike clubs clean up their acts, but a lot of them struggle with anger... I think giving them a way to deal with their kids (and wives) is very important. I can get through to the women, the men :rolleyes are a little bit more difficult (and why I am adamant my dh understand GD).

[Radosny Matka]

:shrug Maybe it's their way of trying to make it not sound so...well...abusive.