Ap yet punitive

[Heather Micaela]

I was a mom that was AP but belive the Bible mandated me to be puntive.

I became AP pertly through the help of a good friend who is an AP natural mama. We used to be EXACTLY on the same page about parenting. We used to go to the same church before she move a ways away.

Anyways, I was at her house for the 4th of july and saw a large paint stirrer w/ a yellow ribbon hangging from the handle of the linen closet - obviously for spanking. :(

I know from a discussion on another board that spanking is rarely used and that many of their methods whould line up w/ gentle discipline. But I think if I told her we didn't spank at all she'd think I was brainwashed (which is what I thought about gentle discliplin at first too.)

She is a missionary and in bible college w/ her DH, so it is intimidating to talk about.

Does any one have any subtle and non condescending ways to bring up the subject and show her what I've learned. She really is a gentle and loving mom, but like I did, thinks spanking is expected and holds Dobson in high esteem.

[Dizzy Blond]

Share with her your journey and the changes in your family & in your heart. I think a testimony is the greatest thing. If she hears how well its working for you, then it will be interested in checking out this web site. You can start it like: "Hey, I just wanted to tell you some things I've been learning that has really changed my ideas on parenting and wanted to share. I am just so excited about this method and feel like my family is benefitting tremendously...."

[Heather Micaela]

Somehow I think she'd still think I was nuts. I was wondering if just focusing on GBD without mentioning anti-spanking would help.

[ArmsOfLove]

When I talk to groups I start out by saying that I'm not there to tell them not to spank, or to say they are wrong for spanking. I'm there to share with them that the Bible doesn't say we have to spank, and then to teach them enough tools that my hope is they will find that they are spanking less and less and less and eventually never :heart I make sure to not make it about spanking. GBD isn't about *not spanking*, it's about what we DO as discipline :tu

[Heather Micaela]

teach them enough tools that my hope is they will find that they are spanking less and less and less and eventually never :heart I make sure to not make it about spanking. GBD isn't about *not spanking*, it's about what we DO as discipline :tu


Exactly my journey, Crystal. I am ever so glad I got over my prejudice and reluctance and started posting. A lot of the crirticism aof dobson or punitive freinds made my blood boil (Y'all were a buch of ingnorant and judgemental moms IMNSHO then) But God dealt with my heart and I realized that GCM was full of loving moms who mostly had been there - done that. They wern't criticizng thier friends, but concerned and knew their relationship w/ their kids could be better. So I decided that my temper and anger was helping NO ONE and these technigues would help me not to have to spank so often.
Then i didn't want to spank at all, but thought I HAD to. Finally I did the resarch myself and am so content.

So since I know this friend is just like me, I want the first step to talking about it with her. She knows the bible so mauch better than me so it is VERY intimidating. And though she is a missionary and belives in women in just abut every facet of ministry, doesn't accept women as pastors, so I'm not sure passing on you rbook would be good at first.

I guess I need the the ice breaker - KWIM?

I have another friend I'd like to share w/ too. Her DS is only 11 mos so she is not spanking or punishing yet. I hope to "get to her" before she does. I am the reason she is AP - she wasn't w/ her first who is 15 (she was a teen mom)

[CelticJourney]

Ap is about giving children what they need in the best, most effective way possible.

They need food, we feed them, or better yet, we nurse.
They need comfort at night, we get up, or better yet, we co-sleep.
They need discipline, we should give them the best example and the most effective way of guiding them to a place of understanding - spanking doesn't work on their heart and mind, just on their fear reaction. I am coming to see punitive parenting more and more as 'junk food for growing hearts'.

[ArmsOfLove]

Maybe she would listen better to Clay Clarkson in "Heartfelt Discipline"???

[Lilly_of the_ Fields]

saw a large paint stirrer w/ a yellow ribbon hangging from the handle of the linen closet - obviously for spanking

Isn't it illegal in a lot of countries to strike a child with an object? I think it might be classed as a kind of abuse here in Aus, but it might be wishful thinking.

It's weird, cos even withe spankers I know, the idea of the wooden spoon etc seems to be really frowned apon..."cos at least with a hand you can tell how hard you've hit", or so the theory goes. It just seems so additionally cruel, iykwim? :sad2

[Heather Micaela]

we take the bible literaly in my church and so if they beilve it says an actual "rod" a hand is not biblical - and no it is NOT illegal. Like I said it is use ralrely, but I still hated seeing it hang there KWIM?

[Lilly_of the_ Fields]

Oh, yeah - we take the Bible literally in our church too :) It's God's word! :amen

But to really take the 'spare the rod' verse literally, we need to be able to identify the context and type of literature being used (so you know how it is intended to be applied) AND research the original text (Hebrew; Greek etc to root out any misinterpretations).

In regards to the first matter, this is wisdom literature (proverbs) not a commandment, iykwim. The second, and probably the most important is that the rod is not a rod as we imagine it in our modern Western context...it's actually a shepherd's staff being referred to (in other places rod is a synonym for sceptre..I'll find the Hebrew words/verses for you, if you like :) )

Anyhow...rod is a bad English translation of the text. The idea of the staff is as of guidance and protection, not spanking...Biblical shepherds led their flocks, didn't stand behind them switching them, iykwim.
:heart

[Heather Micaela]

Oh, yeah - we take the Bible literally in our church too :) It's God's word! :amen

But to really take the 'spare the rod' verse literally, we need to be able to identify the context and type of literature being used (so you know how it is intended to be applied) AND research the original text (Hebrew; Greek etc to root out any misinterpretations).

In regards to the first matter, this is wisdom literature (proverbs) not a commandment, iykwim. The second, and probably the most important is that the rod is not a rod as we imagine it in our modern Western context...it's actually a shepherd's staff being referred to (in other places rod is a synonym for sceptre..I'll find the Hebrew words/verses for you, if you like :) )

Anyhow...rod is a bad English translation of the text. The idea of the staff is as of guidance and protection, not spanking...Biblical shepherds led their flocks, didn't stand behind them switching them, iykwim.
:heart


ITA The problem we have is that we are the victims of believing our pastor's bad hermenutics on this area. And since they are so right on in other areas we just take what they say as gospel truth - when it isnt even "good news" at all.

I just know where she is coming from on this cause I was just there

[Katherine]

She knows the bible so mauch better than me so it is VERY intimidating.

I could say the same thing about every pastor out there who teaches spanking... but the fact is most of them have probably never come close to studying THIS issue as much as I have, b/c God led me to learn more about this. :) Just b/c they have been to seminary or know more about the Bible as a whole doesn't mean their understanding of every issue is more right/complete than mine. I personally belive this is why the body of Christ is "the sum of it's parts" so to speak. God develops different strengths and understandings in each of us, and we ALL minister to each other. It doesn't just roll downhill from Bible scholars, pastors, and teachers.

Depending on what kind of person she is... I wonder if telling her that you've been studying Biblical discipline and have come up with some surprising and unexpected results...

If she expresses interest, maybe share some of the problems you found with taking the "rod" verses literally.... or the way that doing a thorough exegesis has changed your understanding of how some words are used.

Maybe just share your thoughts briefly--in a very relaxed way--and end in a way that doesn't require a response from her. :shrug It's really tough to know how to approach people when you know that they know that you know they are pro-spanking. :/ :P

[Chris3jam]

I know a lady who is very AP and also punitive. She's an LLL leader; she's AP, co-sleeps, ebf, etc. because of that. But she believes what she's been taught about the Bible and the rod. So, apparently, it's not all inter-connected. :shrug

[CelticJourney]

and no it is NOT illegal

Just keep in mind this varies by state and there are also 'gray zones'. In SC, if you have used anything but your hand and spanked on the bottom AND are charged with abuse, the impliment used is considered 'the use of a weapon while committing battery against a child'.

[Lilly_of the_ Fields]

I just know where she is coming from on this cause I was just there

:hug

I do know what you mean about being reluctant to tell people you don't spank at all. In the early stages of finding our feet with AP and GBD we didn't say much at all. It was so emotionally overwhelming, esp with friends who you know hearts are in the right place/are good Christians etc.

It's only really now (after nearly 2 years) that I've felt OK to bring up the issue. Part of that's been figuring out where my parenting choices "fit" in with my own faith. I've come to realise that parenting styles (including AP and GBD) are choices that come under the banner of "Christian living", they aren't salvation issues in themselves.

...that might sound like stating the obvious, but it's hard not to get drawn into making your style of parenting an idol :td by thinking there is only 'one right way of being a Christian parent' and all others are worldly/wrong (especially, when there so many Christian books that explicity or implicity say this).

The weird thing is that as I've relaxed into this style of parenting (and at the same time learned not to rely so heavily on external approval for what I do as a parent, but instead draw strength from my relationship with the Lord) that I've also learned ways of talking about it to friends that are non-confrontational...I guess because I know deep in my heart I am not judging someone elses faith, just discussing an approach, iykwim.

LOL, and now people are asking *us* advice and react positively/are pleasantly surprised by what we share...a really amazing one recently being my F & MIL who were *very* punitive with their kids.

[ArmsOfLove]

LOL, and now people are asking *us* advice and react positively/are pleasantly surprised by what we share...a really amazing one recently being my F & MIL who were *very* punitive with their kids. :woohoo