Dog People, I need your input

[Tulip_Plus_3]

Hey there Dog People, I need some input, please.

Let me preface my remarks by stating that I love animals, including dogs, grew up on a farm, wanted to be a vet when I was little, am not afraid of animals, blah blah blah. So please know I'm not hostile to dogs.

What I am curious about is:

1 - Why do people who own dogs let them run free, off leash, and insist that we allow their dogs to directly interact with our children, and
2 - How do I kindly get the message across to dog people that we do NOT want their dogs around our kids, at all, period, we don't care how friendly their dog is?

???

I have had it with friendly people who have friendly dogs (so they say) and somehow think their desire to see their dog interact with our children supercedes our rights as parents to keep our kids away from dogs. First of all, every dog has it's limits, and a strange dog surrounded by three extremely excited toddlers who know NOTHING about being safe around dogs can easily & unpredictably be pushed past that limit. (And I don't have time or the desire to teach my kids dog safety at this point in their lives) Second, I have already had a friend's "friendly, kid-loving" dog IRL almost rip the throat out of one of my girls (I threw my body between her & the dog at the last moment) because she (the friend) insisted on "seeing how he'll react to other kids". Mind you, her dog was already barking, snarling, and throwing himself against the door when he was isolated in the other room. It was quite obvious to me what would happen if she let him in, yet over my objections she did it anyway.

Yesterday in the park there was this very nice Santa Claus looking man with a fairly nice looking dog. But dang, I didn't want his dog around my kids, I can't keep all three kids from lunging at him & wanting to pull on him & scream in his face at the same time. Yet he insisted that his dog was friendly (big deal, I could care less) and that his dog should be allowed by our kids. It seems the only way to get friendly dog lovers to back off and call their dogs back is to be rude. No amount of being nice seems to get through, because the nicer I am about telling the person that we aren't interested in his/her dog, the more insistent the dog owner is that their dog is a saint and that my kids should play with the dog. Only after I resort to rudeness does the person "get" what I'm saying, and then they're ticked off at me. (I guess it doesn't matter that they've ticked ME off first?)

A couple of days ago, at the same park (which we love, BTW, and is our only park option w/in walking distance), there was a nice teenaged boy with his dog. Again, he didn't ask us for permission, he simply started having his dog interacting with our kids. That doesn't work for me.

My POV is, they're my kids, I don't know the dog owner, I don't know the dog, and I don't see how anyone would assume they have a right to force me to let my kids play with their dog. I don't get it, I really dont.

Is there some secret code-phrase I can use to politely stop these undesired advances right away?

[ArmsOfLove]

Wow--I don't know what to say. I'd never force my dogs upon any child. My children are still uncomfortable about our dogs so they are kept apart much of the time. I guess I'd be rude and say, "Hey, get your dog away from my child!"

I'm especially cautious because cute little dogs is a lure technique for pedophiles :(

[snlmama]

I don't allow my dog to run off his leash. It is illegal here and can get you a citation and a fine (I was told it is $200). And while he is the most gentle thing you've ever seen I don't normally let other people's kids pet him. And my kids are not allowed to pet other people's dogs w/o mine and their permission.
Any responsible dog owner knows and understands the reason for keeping dogs away from strange children. And anyone who knows anything about children knows the reasons for keeping them away and that they child could be afraid of dogs or allergic.
If they are rude enough to ignore a polite request, then be as firm as you have to and don't worry about being rude. THEY are the ones who are being rude.

[Mother of Sons]

If you have to be rude, you have to be rude. You should be teaching your children animal safety though. You can teach them to stay away from animals.

I would never do that to someone. I don't want people around my dog and I don't even like it when people want to come up and pet her. It totally annoys me. I get especially annoyed if someone lets their kids just run up and fall all over my dog. That's not safe. I've never had the experience of someone wanting my kids to interact with their dog. Well except for my aunt who kept telling me that if my son would stop being afraid of her dog, the dog would stop lunging at him :rolleyes

[Iarwain]

They do it for the same reason rude people of any type overstep. As a dog owner I try to keep my dog on a leash when we are out (sometimes I let her off if we're at the park and there's no one else there but I put her back on if another family arrives). If we are around children who want to pet her or if she wants to get a closer look I make eye contact with the parent and ask "is it OK for them to pet her?" and then keep a close hold on her. As a parent I am very, very cautious around strange dogs because sometimes unfamiliar dogs are unpredictable, especially around small children who move quickly and erratically. We have a rule that they are not to go up to or try to pet strange dogs unless I say it's OK. I repeat this rule loudly in front of other dog owners and head the kids off at the pass if they start heading towards the dog.

[Ali]

eta: Sorry I didn't read the other posts, so I might be repeating.

Hmmm... I don't know what more you can say. I always tell my DS that we don't touch or play with dogs we don't know. He's just a little guy, but I'm trying to instill that in him. As far as people pushing their dogs on you, I think most people think kids love dogs and they don't think beyond that. Smart dog owners also know that it's necessary to let their dogs get to know kids so they don't turn out like your friend's dog. However, they should find willing participants not kids whose mom is sayig she doesn't want her kids to play with the dog :banghead. I can get why this is hard for the dog owners to understand. I've known some dog owners who cannot get why not everyone would just LOVE to play with their dog. We had some neighbors who were thrilled that there was no leash law in our area so their dogs could just wander around the neighborhood. Now these were fantastic dogs, but I know at least one other neighbor who was afraid of dogs and they terrified her. My neighbors were not very understanding about this woman's fear. They would tell her, the dogs are friendly, they just want to say hi - poor woman! I really don't know how to get that through to people.
As for people with dogs that may not be friendly, bringing them near kids it such a stupid thing to do. I would never let my dog out with kids if I didn't know for darn sure my dog was great with all kids. Even then, I'd supervise and only ever with the parents' permission. That's crazy what your friend did. I hope she realizes what kind of liability she has on her hands.
And as far as people approaching you at the park, etc., you might say "We don't let our kids touch strange dogs. I know you said yours is friendly, but I want my kids to learn to only play with dogs we know well for their safety and the dog's. I hope you can understand." If they persist, I'd get more stern "Please keep your dog away" and remind them of leash laws if your have to. You might get dirty looks, but that's their porblem - you tried to be nice. You didn't mention what your kids are doing during these situations. Do they run up to the dog? Do they beg to play with it? I'd make sure they were on the same page as me, but give them plenty of chances to play with dogs that you do know well, so they don't develop a fear.

I repeat this rule loudly in front of other dog owners and head the kids off at the pass if they start heading towards the dog.

Yes, yes! I do this too. "I know you see a doggie R, but we don't go up to or touch dogs we don't know!"

[JJsMom]

I was at the pet store yesterday and my ds saw a huge dog and the guy automatically started coming towards us, I said "Oh, my son like dogs, just from a distance." Which is true, he is afraid of big dogs. BTW, then a woman came close to him and he let the leash out, so the dog went up to the woman and he said "he really likes the ladies." :rolleyes Wow, what a dork.) Anyway, I thought that worked well, but I also say something about not touching dogs we don't know. I guess I would try to be polite, but step it up to rudeness if they don't seem to be getting it. :shrug

[Can Dance]

I have the advantage of understanding doggie body language as I have studied it pretty extensively. I know which dogs must be stayed away from and which ones are "okay" My dog makes my nieghbour a bit nervous with her daughter. Bentley has gotten a lot more comfortable around kids since he now has his own kid and is used to their ackward movements more so than they used to be. But Bentley has EXCELLENT recall and he comes to me whenever I call. So to me if someone is sending off the signal that they don't like my dog (which its hard not to, he is white and fluffy and small), I call him immediately to me. Its very rare that he is off leash though.
Dogs that are not socialized to children can be dangerous. The other danger is ignorant owners who think their dog is so fabulous and will never hurt anyone. A child is a completely different story. and the dog has probably sent of a million signals, all of which were ignored by the child or owner. then it ends badly and that dogs life probably ends bc of the incident.

I don't imagine you are going to off leash parks, but I know there are off leash parks right beside playgrounds. The dogs are not allowed onto the actual playground, but are allowed to run around it. dogs do NEED off leash time for thier own well being. maybe that is the problem with your park ? :shrug

I think all of the suggestions are good ones to make dogs go away. DD is kind of fearless around dogs bc she has been around one her entire life. I know I am going to have to deal with that at some point. but again, I feel very comfortable bc that was my occupation, it was my job to know what they are thinking.

[cannuke]

I agree. Be as rude as you need to - some people just don't get it unless you're VERY blunt. :banghead

As a dog owner, I actually hate it when kids come running up to our dog. He's a small/medium sized dog and just loves people. He's also a very unique breed ( Shiba Inu (http://www.akc.org/breeds/shiba_inu) ) that a lot of people haven't seen around here before and they just love to check him out. My problem is that because he's so friendly, he can get right into kids' faces in trying to make friends, which can be pretty intimidating to a kid unfamiliar with dogs. We are consistent in having him sit before anyone approaches him, but some people let their kids run right up to him before we get a chance to get him to sit. We also NEVER take him off leash - I think it's rude and there's no legal off leash parks near our house. He goes off leash in our backyard.

Just because my dog loves people and I love my dog, that doesn't mean that I can automatically assume that people are going to be as crazy about him as he is about them. He'll get over it. He gets plenty of attention at home. :shrug

Many dog owners need to realize that not everyone loves their little pookie as much as they do, and that it's OK that people aren't nuts about their dog. :/

[Radosny Matka]

:eek How rude. I think you are handling it just fine. It up to them to own their own upset over the issue. Don't give it another thought. Forcing a dog upon your child is rude!

[Charlie U]

I would carry an umbrella with you. (Seriously.) Most dogs are completely freaked out by umbrellas. Get between the dog and the kids and "accidentally" open the umbrella while it's pointed at the dog. Then you can say something like "oh, sorry. Just trying to keep the kids away from the dog." They usually run rather than get aggressive. (This was a trick we learned in training class.)

I keep my dog on leash at all times when we're out. She's overly friendly and has knocked down my dd while trying to get positioned for pets. She's also hyper agressive to other dogs and actually had a cat's head in her mouth. Fortunately, she didn't bite kitty. I don't think she'd hurt a person intentionally. But even the gentlest, best trained dog can "snap". I feel better when she's leashed and I can control her.

[IslandMama]

I am a doggie lover and have 4! I would have to agree with some of the other posts, that owners are not being responsible if they are allowing their dogs to approach you and your kids if you don't want them to. I would suggest being firm and saying "do you mind keeping your dog away?" and I can't imagine someone not listening to you. I also teach my children dog safety and I remind them that we do not pet strange dogs without permission from me or the owner. I usually will check out the dog first myself. If the dog looks agressive or uncomfortable, I tell my children no. Also, I have my dog sit and always ask a child to ask their parent first before they pet them. I let 2 of my older dogs off leash on my yard when I am working out there, but they do not usually leave my yard, and if a stranger approaches, I call them to me. It's sad to say, that alot of dog owners are not responsible ones. :sad2 I'm so sorry! I think for that reason, it's worth the time to teach your children dog safety...

[Mom2Thomas]

I agree with pp that this behavior is unacceptable. Dogs and children are unpredictable. My two dogs are very good with my ds, but I still never leave them together unattended.

I usually have the opposite problem with my two dogs though. They are very tiny, one is 4.5 pounds and the other is 7 pounds and the neighborhood kids are always bothering them in OUR yard.

[Sanveann]

I would just pull your children back as best as you are able and firmly tell the dog owner, "I'm sorry, but my children tend to overwhelm dogs, and I don't allow them to interact right now."

[Abinsmom]

Well, first, I wouldn't assume you have to be rude in order to get someone with a dog to put him back on leash. It's sometimes true that the person with the dog may not be aware that dogs are required to be onleash. Hard to believe, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt. The beaches here in Washington state have varying rules about leashes and I know I've personally been corrected at least once for not having my dog on a leash.

It's true that some dog owners are inconsiderate about keeping their dog onleash. My personal feeling is that you can never predict the behavior of a dog (even if he's yours) OR the behavior of children (even if they're yours). The combination leaves a potentially dangerous situation. As much as I try to be responsible with my dog, he loves to be offleash and I let him off whenever it is safe for him, and never when there are strangers in proximity.

And yes, there are offleash dog parks, but believe me, there are people who take dogs to places like that who shouldn't, too. It's not just dogs and children that don't mix. I had a dog act with aggression toward my dog at an offleash park one day (he bit him, but didn't break his skin). The owner of the other dog told me it was because he was an unneutered (intact) male, and that I shouldn't have an intact male at an offleash park because it entices other males (hers, specifically) to act aggressively toward him. I immediately called our breeder and told her the story and she said it was a bunch of hogwash, that the owner of the other dog should never take her male to an offleash area knowing he is sparked by intact males. By the way, that was the only incident we've ever had with our male -- he's still intact and that was 5.5 years ago!