Friend situation.......please give advice!

[purplerose]

Hi all! I know i've posted about this one particular friend of mine who is very punitive with her DC. She and I have been friends for 6 years now, but this is the second time we've been stationed at the same place. The first time, when we met, she had just had a baby and I had no kids. I do remember bck then when their toddler would cry, they'd yell at him to go cry in his room. And I do remember her spanking him. I didn't have children then, but now I do and my mindset has completely changed. Also, as I've drawn closer to the Lord, I wanted to be more Christlike in my parenting. I mean, does God hit me whenever I do something wrong? NO!

So anyway, she is VERY PUNITIVE with her boys who are 4 and 6. I feel she yells at them entirely too much for them doing things, that, I mean, after all, they are just kids! Well, I think what really drew teh line for me was the other day, my DD told me she wanted to potty train. Well, she was having a tough time with it and wouldn't pee in the potty. She'd sit on it for over an hour, but just couldn't do it. So she'd just pee. I was telling my friend about this and she was like "Just spank her. She's being stubborn and you need to spank her every time she pees on the floor, until she gets it" I was like "She's not a dog! She's a little girl and potty training can be tough for some kids" And my friend was like "Well, I just think it's ridiulous that she's almost 3 1/2 and is still in diapers. I hate having to change her poopy diapers when I watch her for you. " So I just said, "Well, I guess you don't need to watch my kids for me anymore." And then she brought her boys to my DD's dance recital and she was sooooooooo mean to her boys. One of them did something where they accidetnly hit her arm and she was soooooooo mean to them in their face right in front of everyone! And her boys are just sooooo scared of her. I really feel for them. NO wonder they want to be in daycare and school full-time! I just don't know what to do. DH tells me it's none of my business. He is good friends with her DH too, he is also very punitive. They'll will spank for any reason, any where in front of anybody!!!!

I just don't know what to do or say anymore. I just try to keep away from her as much as possible, or just talk to her on the phone. When she asks us to do something I just say "Oh, I'm just too tired and have no energy right now" This pregnancy is a good excuse! I know that she loves her kids very much, but I just don't agree with her punitive ways. She is a great friend and has been there for me many times in many situations and I'd hate to lost her friendship over this, but I jsut am not sure what to do. What do you think?! Thanks so much!

[MarynMunchkins]

IMHO, the best way to help those people is to be there for them and be a good example. :) Maybe find a neutral place where you can leave if you feel the need, but by cutting off any contact with her, you eliminate the only GBD friend she has. :neutral

Is there any chance she could be depressed? :/ I remember being horribly mean to my children :blush, but I was also sucidial and trying to hold it together. :( Remember the mantra that "People who feel bad, act bad" applies to her too. :hug

[purplerose]

Thanks, Mary for your reply! I'm really surprised at out of all the people who've viewed this, I would get more responses. I'm really just sick over it. I do know that I do need to be a good example to her and she tells me that I am in many ways.....she tells me that I'm very patient with my kids, and that I make her feel bad at how she yells at her kids all the time. It's just when she starts in with the spanking thing, it just really bothers me. That seems to be her solution for everything. "Just spank 'em" .

Anyone else have any other thoughts on how to approach this or should I just leave it be?! Thanks! :pray

[hsgbdmama]

:mad :banghead

My neighbor told me about another neighbor's niece who potty-trained her youngest that way -- if he went in his pants, she spanked him ... apparently she didn't plan on PT this way, but rather "that's the way it worked out" kind of thing. :td :cry My neighbor and I both agreed that this is NOT the way to PT (and she is PT her almost 3 yo right now).

I think you are correct in moving away from this friendship for the time being -- having your family around this negative behavior is not good or healthy. :(

[Katherine]

:hugheart I'm sorry. I'm not sure I have any good advice b/c I've never had to deal with a situation like that before.

My initial thoughts are that I could be friends with someone who spanked only if they tried to also respect my feelings/beliefs and refrained from spanking or lashing out at their kids in front of me and my family.

She would certainly NOT be on my list of acceptable caregivers. Knowing her philosophy of parenting.. and the fact that she has stated outright her opinion that your daughter ought to be spanked for behaviors like not peeing in the potty :eek would disqualify her from watching my kids--no questions asked.

My opinion is that if you want to preserve the friendship, you're going to have to talk with her about your feelings/beliefs and hope that she will be willing to set and observe some boudaries in the future. I don't think it's healthy for you or your family to be exposed to this family dynamic on a regular basis.

[IslandMama]

Hi! I still have friends who spank... It breaks my heart too, to see their children treated this way. But you have to think about what kind of friend would you be if you weren't gut level honest with her. I would probably tell her that you want to talk to her about something, and in your most loving, non-judgemental, caring way, explain to her that you're a little concerned about her spanking so much. If she is your friend, and has been there for you, I don't think she would take it wrong... And you can just share what you do, or believe and leave it up to her. Tell her you're here for her and willing to help if she wants it, but also you can agree to disagree. Just be careful not make her feel stupid or inferior like you know better... Maybe if she knows how uncomfortable you are with her hitting all the time, she might not do it in front of you? Or if she says she doesn't need a friend like you, well then, maybe that's how it will be. I would just do a lot of praying before approaching her. God may use you in a way you can't imagine! Being a great example is the best thing you can do, and as Christians, we also need to stand up for what's right... If I were doing something harmful to my dc and didn't know any better, I would expect my friends to tell me I'm doing wrong... Wouldn't you? HTH! :heart Oh, and I don't think I would have her watch my dc if she treats her own dc this way....

[ArmsOfLove]

I suspect most of the people who've viewed this are either praying about how to respond or figure their answers wouldn't fit the criteria of this forum for setting an example to those who are punitive minded and may be lurking ;)

I would not be around someone who treated their children that way *in front of my children*. I do not believe my children should be subjected to that.

I would not leave my child in the care of someone who does these things. *ESPECIALLY* because what people do in front of the world is what they believe everyone else embraces. What they do at home could be much much more :(

I would not just abandon her--I would be completely honest with her about the issue and put the ball in her court. She can either respect the boundary (of not doing these things around me) or she has made a choice to not be around me :/

[CelticJourney]

I'm really surprised at out of all the people who've viewed this, I would get more responses

I for one have been pondering. There are so many dynamics working here - mainly the dhs being friends. I would have serious problems with someone telling me directly that they resented taking care of my child and having my children witness such negativity all the time. You have to decide what you are willing and unwilling to be around. If you can see it as a 'difference of parenting style' and go on, so be it (I wouldn't leave my kids there through). I have let go of relationships over less.

[Chris3jam]

Most of the people I know irl are punitive. Yes, they love their children -- but they are punitive. One person in particular (she and her dh go go through TTUAC every year, just to keep them "fresh")-- we hang out with them --- our kids love to play together. I steer the conversation away from discipline. I just am me. And she is just her. She swats her kids wherever -- but I do not. To borrow from a Gothard famous phrase, "others may, but I may not." :D :P~ My kids do not see it. I will never leave my kids with her, though. She probably wouldn't swat them, but I don't know that. And I'm sure my kids would see swatting, pinching, ear-pulling, etc. But I deal with this on an almost daily basis. . . .and perhaps I'm just wimpy, but I just keep my mouth shut, and try as hard as I can to set a very good example.

[purplerose]

Thanks, guys! I'm sorry if I made anyone feel bad for not responding, but I am just so saddened by this. I NEVER thought this would effect our friendship. DH REALLY REALLY REALLY wants me to just LEAVE IT ALONE! He knows that WE don't spank, but they do. That is THEIR choice, he says. Which he is right, but since DH works and isn't around her and her kids as much as we are, KWIM? It does bother him though that she sticks her kids in full-time "preschool" or drives them to the only full-day kindergarten because "she just can't stand being around them all the time", but again, he says "that is their choice, they will have to be accountable someday and we shouldn't judge them" and I know that he's right. He also said, "Well, if she doesn't want to change Lindsay's diapers because she's over 3, just do't ask her to watch them anymore. Simple as that. Don't make an issue out of it." DH always just says "We can live IN the world, but we don't have to live OF the world" That what WE decide to do what's best for OUR family, might not be what another family decides if best for THEIR family! UGHGHGHGHG!!! I'm just confused...............

[ArmsOfLove]

TBH, I would suggest that being away from her for a good part of the day is a good thing :(

Also, ou can do things as a family but not without dh's :shrug

[CelticJourney]

I'm sorry if I made anyone feel bad for not responding

No bad feelings here - I know sometimes I post and get frustrated when I don't get a response just because I often can't get the suject off my mind and want help NOW (delayed gratification is not my strong point, maybe that's why I never expected it from my babies). I think the 'friend' situations are hard because none of us can truely see the dynamics and don't want to make things harder for you. I know I would have a hard time respecting someone who acted that way towards thier children.

[Katherine]

Maybe you can agree with the things your dh is saying.. that it *is* their choice, and they will be accountable for their own family, and that she shouldn't watch your dd anymore if she feels so negatively about changing her diaper, etc...

But then add very kindly that the same things apply for you, and that you feel you and/or your kids are being negatively affected by the attitudes and actions of your friend (or whatever reason is most applicable) and that you are carefully considering what to do precisely because you *ARE* responsible for how you choose to handle yourself, your friendships, and your family. :shrug

He's entitled to his opinion about how to handle things, but you are still the person most responsible for and affected by the choices you make.. whether that means choosing to keep your mouth shut and live with a stressful/upsetting situation, being open with your friend and weathering whatever fallout occurs, setting boundaries in the relationship, etc. :hugheart I'm sure it must be very difficult to sort things out. :( Praying that God gives you wisdom and insight.

[DebraBaker]

We've been socialized to be quiet and polite to people like that but why (oh I beg to ask) is she free to spew her punitive advice in your direction?

Doesn't your dh know that your silence is tacid approval?

Even if you're convinced that the ethos of silence is correct she has broken that unspoken nicety by opining about your parenting. Next time she tells you to "just spank" I would let her know it isn't going to happen and *why* it isn't going to happen.

And I would never ever ever ever (not in a million years) leave my kids with people like that. Just witnessing that treatment is a trauma and gives you another reason to speak up (they're witnessing that abuse and are also witnessing their parents silence in the face of abuse.

Debra Baker

[BornFreeBaby]

As I am also new to GBD, I cannot give that great of advice, but I do have a punitive friend w/ 4 kids, and I can relate to your situation.

I can understand dh's want to preserve his friendship and wanting you to just "drop it". I think that you may want to listen to your dh on some things...I also have a friend who spanks and is very punitive. She knows where I stand and I know where she stands. We do not talk about it anymore b/c we have come to a mutual agreement of agreeing to disagree as someone else said... however, I would also never leave my child w/ her and she KNOWS that if she starts spanking her kids in front of me, I will LEAVE, and I have told her this in advance. Its that simple. "Gotta go now, bye bye" and I wisk dd away from the situation. I also x-tra x-tra try to model GBD and loving kind words to dd and even her 4 kids. This isn't much of a friendship anymore since we've had kids, but its the only way we can be civil. Also, my friend is under a lot of stress right now b/c her husband is in jail and they are financially struggling. I try to be a loving servant to God by reaching out to her and giving her hugs and support when she needs it. This doesn't mean that I stick around to be subjected to her punitive punishing methods.
But it sounds like you may want to stray away from talking about any parenting practices w/ her. Don't tell her that dd is having trouble w pl'ing, don't ask her for her advice b/c you know what she's going to say. I would just try to be CIVIL w/ her for the sake of dh's wishes, but not pursue a more close friendship w/ her. Maybe she needs to know how your feeling about this?... maybe just tell her you would not like to discuss parenting issues and that if she spanks her kids, you are going to leave? Also, if you display more confidence in what you are doing, she may eventually come to you for advice. I agree w/ the pp that people who act bad feel bad and v.v.
You don't want to put yourself in a position of needing HER advice, KWIM?

I also say things here and there to my friend, like, "kids will only be little for a little while" and I try to make light of situations that I know she would normally spank. i.e. we were at the park and her ds starting playing in a mud puddle. She started to get really upset and began yelling. This may be permissive, but at that point I said to her laughingly, "Kids just love playing in the mud and feeling it btwn their fingers, its so much fun for them! And its so developmentally approapriate! Hey I have some x-tra clothes, and some water bottles to wash them off w/ just let em play!" And I actually picked up dd and put her hands in the mud. She was shocked, but she began to lighten up when I did.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can still be loving and kind to the person and model loving kindness to your kids and theirs. But you don't have to accept her behavior in front of your kids...

I don't know if this helps, but that is what I do w/ my spanking friend.

[purplerose]

Hi everyone. Well, thanks sooooooooooooooooooooooo much for all your advice and support. I spoke to one of my friends (who's mostly AP) and she suggested the best thing to do is to just try to distance myself as much as possible. And like someone here said, when she does spank her kids just say "Oh, gosh, I forgot, we've got to go" and just to leave it at that. I'm going to sit down with the Lord tonight and have a long chat about this. I really would like to keep the friendship (just not bringing up parenting topics), but just limit it. I do know that she is having a rough time right now, as her DH is deployed to Iraq until October and they just moved her as well. You would think she'd be embracing my friendship more, but I know that she is depressed. She doens't like where they are living as they are waiting for base housing, she hasn't met any other of the unit wives and is feeling no support while her DH is deployed. She is NOT the SAHM type and I know it's driving her crazy, so that's why she's putting her ds in "preschool". She wants to work, but it would be too hard while her DH is deployed especially during the summer. So I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and be a good friend while she is going through this time. I am going to pray to find ways to be a better friend and better example of a GBD to her!! If anyone comes up with any other ideas/tips/etc, I'd be really appreciative! Thanks again for uderstanding and being patient with me!!!!!!!!! :heart :hearts

[Lilly_of the_ Fields]

This sounds like more than a case of 2 people with different views on whether they should spank their children. Your friends behaviour, quite frankly, is abusive.

Even parents who choose punitive parenting techniques (like time out and spanking) can do so in a manner which is comparitively emotionally contained. There is no reason why your friend should be constantly yelling at her children, making them feel frightened, shaming them in public.

Be strong - and if you are put in a position in which you feel uncomforable again, take a deep breath - ask her to listen to what you are going to say, tell her you love her very much but you feel like the anger she directs towards her children is over the top. Given her track record, she is likely to explode - but at least you are giving her the *opportunity* to see herself from another persons perspective.

I have to say, I have had to intervene in a similar situation in which my own sister was yelling at my neice in public (and making quite a scene) and it really threw her. I think I said something like, 'You are the adult in this situation - why are you yelling?'. When she did not stop, I stated 'You are out of control and making both your child and me feel extremely frightened'. She apologised both to me and her daughter afterwards and admitted she had a problem.

I would not leave my children in this environment - even if they never have her anger directed towards them themselves, this is an unhealthy situation to be in. Good idea to make meeting her in future on neutral ground, btw :tu

[APMamaX4]

I for one have been pondering. There are so many dynamics working here - mainly the dhs being friends. I would have serious problems with someone telling me directly that they resented taking care of my child and having my children witness such negativity all the time.

I agree. And to the OP......have you told your dh what she said about how she can't stand changing your dd's poopy diapers, and about how it's "ridiculous" that your dd is still in diapers?? I can't remember if you said that you'd told him or not...Knowing my dh, he'd severe all ties w/that family completely for talking about one of our children like that. He would probably tell the dh that he enjoyed their friendship, and he has nothing against *him*, but due to his wife's comment like that, we just couldn't be around them w/them being so negative about our kids. Yeah, you want to witness to her, but I don't see why you should put your kids out like that (saying she resented caring for your child) in the name of 'witnessing' to her? Maybe keep the communication w/her to an email-only level. She'll get the hint when you are always "busy".