doctor recommended Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

[malakoa]

does anyone know anything about this book?

[AmyDoll]

Yup - totally CIO

Bought it at a Yard Sale when I bot TCOYF bc the woman said it was great.

The guy is a sleep expert dr. and he believes that sleep is *the* most important thing.

If you want it I'll send it to you.

Amy

[traceyd]

I read it several years ago (along with every other sleep book out there) when I was desperate to get dd to sleep better. I agree with the previous post--he is CIO, I think in a Ferber kind of way if I remember, where you let them cry a little then come back after x minutes and pat on them and leave. He goes into very long and scientific explanations of sleep and development to the point that you feel like you're hampering your child's development by not "teaching" them to go to sleep on their own. I guess he's trying to make you feel better about CIO.

I did get one good thing from his book that I have used with both of my kids. He suggests putting them to nap within 2-3 hours of waking (for babies younger than one year old) because they can get too stimulated to go to sleep if you wait longer. For my children I loosely followed that guideline when they were younger and surprisingly they kinda fell into a pattern for napping. I tried not to be really rigid about it.

My theory on babies and toddlers sleeping patterns is this--they tend to have the sleeping patterns of one of the parents. My dh has trouble sleeping-always has even as a baby-mil confirms this (they did do CIO w/him, poor thing). He has trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, he tosses and turns, etc. I on the other hand sleep well, I fall asleep within 5-10 minutes of lying down, and can go back to sleep easily when awakened (my parents did CIO too, I was a very high needs baby). DD sleeps like him and it was very exaggerated as a baby. She has gotten a little better as she's gotten older and she does sleep bnetter than him now. DS tends to be more like me (what a relief).

Of course this is just my opinion but it frustrates me that all of these "experts"have us convinced that our babies should be sleeping "better" and imply that it's the parents fault when they don't. When you have a baby that doesn't sleep well, especially if it's your first, it sure can make you feel like a failure. Once I finally accepted that my dd slept the way she slept, it relieved a lot of stress for me. Not that I got any more sleep but at least I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong.

I guess this is more than you asked for, sorry for going on a tangent....

[AmyDoll]

I read it several years ago (along with every other sleep book out there) when I was desperate to get dd to sleep better. I agree with the previous post--he is CIO, I think in a Ferber kind of way if I remember, where you let them cry a little then come back after x minutes and pat on them and leave.

For babies 12-36 mos he recommends "cold turkey" - letting them cry as long as it takes. he cautions you not to confuse a "protest" cry with a "sad" cry. He says the Ferber method leads to "frustration" and "exhaustion"

He made me feel really bad about how Sam was sleeping - so all day long I tried to put him to bed. Poor Sam. I think he was only up for 8 hours that day. :O TG for my GCMommas to set me straight! :hearts

Amy

[malakoa]

i was afraid of that. i'm sorry i even said anything to her.

what i said was "she only naps for about fifteen minutes at a time, several times a day. and she won't go to sleep if she's tired."

i guess I wanted reassurance.

last night we tried to make her take a nap because she was rubbing her eyes. dh lay with her until she cried herself to sleep. then she woke up crying and he kept patting her and trying to soothe her. by the time he called me in she was trembling, like she used to do with colic (before happiest baby on the block.) yuck.

Small's regular doctor is on maternity leave - we're not going back until she's back.

p.s. i'd like to see the book though. i'll p.m. you

[Blue Aurora]

I just wanted to add that I've read that book as well. I have to say I learned alot about the sleep children need that I had no idea about. He does talk about CIO at older ages and that part we just ignored but I've found alot of truth to his theories on sleep. In his defense his reasoning behind CIO is not for the convienence of the parent, his studies have found that children need sleep and that it's our jobs as parents to protect that need just like we protect them from junkfood by giving them healthy food even if they prefer the junk. He talks about a parent tuning into their child's cues at an early age and protecting their sleep even if it is inconvienent for you. He also says cosleeping isn't a problem as long as you aren't keeping your child up just because you aren't ready for bed. There's good and bad...just read it knowing you'll probably disagree with some things.

[Katiebug]

He also says cosleeping isn't a problem as long as you aren't keeping your child up just because you aren't ready for bed.


Do people actually do this? :eek

[Blue Aurora]

I knew a woman who did...she liked going to bed at 10:30 so they kept the baby up and stimulated until then. Personally I don't think that is very healthy. :shrug

[malakoa]

He also says cosleeping isn't a problem as long as you aren't keeping your child up just because you aren't ready for bed.


Do people actually do this? :eek


i've actually done this. i used to stay up until really late working and small goes to bed at 8:30. she wakes up if i get up so there have been times she's been ready for bed at 7:30 or 8 and I fought it. if we get up at 7 that's only 12 waking hours for me.


maybe that's why we have these problems now.

this whole situation has me feeling dejected. it felt like things were fine before, she was just cranky sometimes. now it seems like things aren't fine and i'm a permissive, selfish mom who is harming her daughter because i didn't set up sleep times long before this.

she's a big girl - top 90% for weight and height and she's met other milestones. she's also babbling (pre-speech) this is all ahead of time. why now the fuss over extra naps?

[Soliloquy]

I read the book, too, when I was PG, along w/ Ferber's book. It made perfect sense to me at the time :blush, of course I wasn't holding my precious baby in my arms yet. I'm so glad that when she was born all the CIO, independent sleep nonsense went out the window. My DD won't nap for more than 15 min, either, unless I'm in bed with her, available to nurse whenever she transititions through light sleep (usually every 45-90 minutes). speaking of which, I gotta go!

[jujubnme]

If you're looking for gentle-to-sleep ideas, maybe the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley would be a better fit for you. It's more about gradually introducing new habits, rather than the CIO cold-turkey approach recommended by Weisbluth. I have NCSS and would be glad to share it with you if you PM me. :) There also used to be a Gentle to Sleep board over at iVillage... but I don't know if it's still there after all their site remodeling. I'll go check.

ETA: I checked over at iVillage... Don't think it's there any more. :(

[Blue Aurora]

i've actually done this. i used to stay up until really late working and small goes to bed at 8:30. she wakes up if i get up so there have been times she's been ready for bed at 7:30 or 8 and I fought it. if we get up at 7 that's only 12 waking hours for me.


maybe that's why we have these problems now.

this whole situation has me feeling dejected. it felt like things were fine before, she was just cranky sometimes. now it seems like things aren't fine and i'm a permissive, selfish mom who is harming her daughter because i didn't set up sleep times long before this.

she's a big girl - top 90% for weight and height and she's met other milestones. she's also babbling (pre-speech) this is all ahead of time. why now the fuss over extra naps?

I'm sorry but I'm confused by your post. Are you having sleep problems with her? If you are happy with the way things are and she is happy then I wouldn't worry about changing anything. I have found with my son that he would reach different developmental points where I needed to change things for him. We stopped cosleeping at 1 year b/c he was not sleeping well anymore with us. For me being a mom has taken alot of detective work at times and sometimes I find out I was doing something to make a situation worse but I don't beat myself up over it...I'm learninig....you are learning and if we're good parents will be learning our whole lifetime. :grouphug

[AmyDoll]

actually, sam kept my schedule when he was younger. we both slept 10 to 10 (with night waking) and he took an afternoon nap. He's moved his schedule (he's actually asleep now - at 730p) but sometimes he boycotts his afternoon nap.

i don't think you're selfish - parenting is a dyad and you and Small need to move in a rhythm. the book isn't going to make you feel better. it's going to make you feel worse. this book elevates sleep to GOD status - and must be *THE* priority

i'd guess Small is going through some changes (like most babies!) and will straighten her sleep out when what she's going through straightens out.

no worries. (((Hugs)))
Amy

PS I didnt get to the PO today - will go tomorrow.

[Ali]

I read it and still pull it out occasionally when DS seems to be going through a change in sleep patterns. I agree that it has a lot of useful information on sleep, but you have to be able to ignore the CIO stuff and the heartbreaking stories of parents letting their little babies cry :sick :(. That said, it did help me develope a daily routine, but NCSS gives a similar one, as well as the typical amount of sleep babies need at night and day. In Healthy Sleep, I did find sweet validation in a tiny section about catnappers. DS only napped 20-30 min at a time the first 7 months. All my friends said he needed to CIO back to sleep for a longer nap :/. This book has a little paragraph stating that this is normal for some babies - ahhh...thank you! Anyways, what I did, was use the information from Healthy Sleep Habits but alternate methods from CIO, like nursing to sleep, rocking etc. Healthy Sleep does talk about parental soothing to sleep and doesn't condemn it for ages 1-4 months, but after that I felt the author was a little passive aggressive toward AP stuff :shrug. Well, there's my 2 cents. I'd say it can be a good resource, but you have to be prepared to take only what you can use and trash the rest.

[Can Dance]

I would have to disagree with the previous posters who say that all he advocates is CIO. I really dont think that is what he says. I have a friend who is more APy than me and is starting this because she is exhausted. I really liked the fact that it was research based. I think its poorly edited, but full of useful information. He talks about the "extinguish" method, which is CIO, but he also talks about in between stuff. My baby also fell into the patterns of sleep he describes perfectly now after I did the same thing every day. This also makes me go to great lengths to protect her naptimes and bedtimes, because if I don't, she goes into melt down.
I don't think that you will like everything he says, but throw out what you don't like and keep what you do. but I still think a lot of what he says is good stuff.
Candice

[Blue Aurora]

ITA