PDA

View Full Version : Would you bother??


milkmommy
05-31-2005, 07:35 AM
There is a debate with both Pearl and Ezzo going on at another board after time I've realized the main supporter of these methods and I are just at polar opposites. Shes way over to the other side more so then even some of the regular pro spankers. So if it was clear to you that this person see things like a 6 month old cooing for a smile as manulpative and onery or frst time never questiong do it happy as the only way to go even saying teaching why is just icing and secondary to the obedience :shrug. Anyways would you even bother? Do you find yourself compelled to answer or is it just not worth the time? I'm really torn here..

Deanna

Katiebug
05-31-2005, 08:02 AM
I personally would just leave a few good Bible verses and leave it God to sort the rest out. And pray for her and her babies You aren't going to win her over with reason, or "convince" her that you're right and it will be too frustrating for you.

MarynMunchkins
05-31-2005, 08:08 AM
I like to argue with those people. :) Mostly because I enjoy a good debate ;), but there are other reasons too. I don't honestly expect to win them over, but you get the chance to go so much deeper into things with people like that and it makes an impact on the undecided or "last resort" people reading. :)

milkmommy
05-31-2005, 08:18 AM
Deleted to remove information not appropiate on this board :O
Deanna

TulipMama
05-31-2005, 08:23 AM
If it is in a place where there are a lot of silent lurkers / mothers who are marginally involved, I may continue the discussion--but aimed at THEM, not at the entrenched person on the other side.

Coming from an Ezzo background, one of the things that really helped me reexamine my assumptions/beliefs was the consistent kindness, gentleness, gracious of the Ezzo critics. And their logic and answer for everything.

But other times, I think it is well worth it to just draw back and not feel the pressure to answer everything.

Oliveshoots
05-31-2005, 09:13 AM
...would this be a situation in which you would want to "not throw your pearls to swine?" (no pun intended.)

I think if she is that one-sided and ornery herself (interesting), that you are wasting your time....time you could be encouraging someone who is more open to growth in that area. Time you could be encouraging the new mama or mama-to-be that is searching, like I was...and waiting for someone to show her the truth in God's word about how to parent as God parents us.

Just my op.

MarynMunchkins
05-31-2005, 09:14 AM
I posted, Deanna. :)

Now I remember why I stopped reading over there in the first place. :sick

Tulip_Plus_3
05-31-2005, 09:43 AM
If it is in a place where there are a lot of silent lurkers / mothers who are marginally involved, I may continue the discussion--but aimed at THEM, not at the entrenched person on the other side.

Coming from an Ezzo background, one of the things that really helped me reexamine my assumptions/beliefs was the consistent kindness, gentleness, gracious of the Ezzo critics. And their logic and answer for everything.

But other times, I think it is well worth it to just draw back and not feel the pressure to answer everything.


ITA!!!

I would not bother if it was just me & the other person(s) toe to toe. Life is too short. But if I thought there was a decent chance that someone was lurking or pondering their choices, I'd make a case for gentle parenting. I agree totally that the Ezzo/Pearl advocates are stunningly harsh and quick to draw blood when a debate is on. What starts as a friendly conversation quickly turns into a bloodbath, and yes, it's usually the gentle parents (that would be me) who are bleeding. I get this frequently in the world of multiples, especially triplet parents because so many simply give up any semblance of kindness & patience and resort to draconian parenting. It just astounds me how brutal the "meanies" are, and yet the parents like me (who are few & far between) don't respond in kind. I'd LOVE to, though! I am definitely a "warrior princess" personality type. I just refuse to behave that way online.

Chris3jam
05-31-2005, 11:07 AM
What's/where's the BC board? Could you use backup and reinforcement?

flowermama
05-31-2005, 12:08 PM
If you want to talk specifically about which board and where, and if someone wants to go over and help, please contact the OP and take such discussions to PMs. I don't feel it's appropriate for the GCM board to be a place that encourages people to go post at other message boards specifically to promote our beliefs. I'd dislike it if people did that to our board, and I want to show the same respect to other boards. Thank you.

milkmommy
05-31-2005, 12:26 PM
If you want to talk specifically about which board and where, and if someone wants to go over and help, please contact the OP and take such discussions to PMs. I don't feel it's appropriate for the GCM board to be a place that encourages people to go post at other message boards specifically to promote our beliefs. I'd dislike it if people did that to our board, and I want to show the same respect to other boards. Thank you.


I'm sorry thats why I didn't say where in my orginal post but spilled the beans latter. Opps.

Deanna

MarynMunchkins
05-31-2005, 12:29 PM
Sorry, Jeri. :O

flowermama
05-31-2005, 12:33 PM
You are forgiven, ladies. ;) :heart Thank you for understanding. :heart :grouphug

Chris3jam
05-31-2005, 01:17 PM
Sorry! :blush I forgot myself -- I was just trying to show support. :blush

ArmsOfLove
05-31-2005, 01:50 PM
Want to know why my post count is so high? Because this is the only online board where I go (except occasionally popping in at one other board where some old friends post). I just realized that life is too short to spend my time debating things like this or getting into it with people who see life through an entirely different paradigm. They don't get children or grace the way I do and we're talking past each other. I 'd rather spend my time around women who see things the way I do, or are being led by God to do so, or who at least have honest questions and are interested. I find so much more peace in my soul when I just post here :)

I agree about sharing information if it's for the silent lurkers who might learn something, and bowing out graciously if it's just about going toe to toe.

Chris3jam
05-31-2005, 02:06 PM
I guess part of me just feels like I need to at least try to share what I've learned. I have no interest in arguing, though. It's only by God's Grace that I came by this board. I was very heavily into punitive parenting as being the only way God ordained raising children. I actually owned TTUAC and nodded my head in vigorous agreement. I have changed SO much, but I wouldn't have if it wasn't for the support here. Where would I and my children be now if I hadn't heard about GBD? And I was hard-core and stubborn, let me tell you! Part of me just wants to "get out the good news". It could very well change someone's life, and the life of their children. At least I would have planted a seed. But, I will say, this board is the only one I have been a part of (apart of a few Yahoo groups). I really appreciate the support and fellowship.

milkmommy
05-31-2005, 02:29 PM
Crystal-ITTA I used to be a common poster their and on others but after a while it really had a negitive effect on me and I stopped. For some unknown reason I became courious and I peeked big mistake. I posted but I need to just back off surround my self with a positive attitude and support found here and let it go.
I can honestly say wasting my time their is hurting my spirt...

Deanna

Katherine
05-31-2005, 03:02 PM
(((Deanna)))

If you can see that the board is having a negative effect on you, then let it go. It's not worth having some discouraging or negative mind sets creep into your life and your family.

There are some ladies who regularly post on debate boards like that, and I have the utmost respect for them. I truly applaud their efforts and the outreach they have to other moms looking for answers. Honestly, I think it's a gift that some people have--being able to debate and engage others with wildly different POVs while maintaining stability in their own lives and hearts. It's not one of *my* gifts, however. :O I took debate in high school and I was a nervous, weepy wreck before and after a debate, even though the people in my class were my FRIENDS and we were arguing over fake topics! :giggle I get upset and emotionally involved too easily, and am influenced by the ideas I surround myself with. :shrug Whether or not people post on boards like that has a lot to do with their own individual skill set--in terms of relating to others--and knowing their limits. I know mine, and I don't even visit places like that or read blogs. I sometimes even have to back off posting on these forums if I'm getting too wrapped up in something that's upsetting me.

Do what you think is the most healthy thing for you and your family... and if you feel really led to say something, then give yourself permission to keep it simple... like stating that you've been learning about a totally different perspective on parenting and it's changed your life--here are some resources. That way you're not even engaging the argumentative person. :shrug :hug

hsgbdmama
05-31-2005, 03:37 PM
Deanna, I'm sure you feel like this --> :banghead

If it were me, I wouldn't bother ... this person sounds like she is set and is not open to any other opinions. :( With some people, you can easily get into a battle of who can cite more verses on an issue, and the first person to stop loses, KWIM? :shrug

If you still feel you need to respond, perhaps state your position (using any supporting verses or resources that led you to it) and leave it at that. :/

CelticJourney
05-31-2005, 03:52 PM
I have posted for years on an Ezzo-related board (actually that is what lead me here :D).

There are some people that come and argue semantics, ie "Ezzo doesn't say not to feed a hungry baby". Often these are those who have done a 'mommy filter' where the read parts that didn't make sense and just filtered them out and forgot they read them.

Some are reactionaries who 'don't want brats' and have bought into what Ezzo says AP families are like. They are the ones that you can make headway with because you can describe your own families and experiences and show them Ezzo lied. Also pointing out AP doesn't equal permissive helps.

Some are 'true believers' and many times you can discuss or debate the same issue over and over and not reach agreement. One Ezzo defender stands out. I'll call her B. B told us unmistakeably that we were idiots to disagree with Ezzo, we were fools to speak out and she knew what was right. She was also about 6months pregnant with her first child. The uglier she got with us, the more the gentle spirits of the group took over the conversation, constantly speaking in love and truth (some of the not so gentle spirits spoke the truth in love as well, but that just angered B). I can't tell you the feeling six months after B decided we weren't worth her time, when she came back for one single post that simply said "I now understand". It was ALL WORTH IT.

If the conversation doesn't effect you negatively or consume you, it can't hurt to pursue the discussion

TulipMama
05-31-2005, 03:54 PM
Something to keep in mind. . .

A lot of punitive parents DO lurk here. This folder and the Gentle Discipline folder are viewable by the public. Many punitive parents lurk and learn here, even before they are ready to even think about registering!

So our discussions here are having an impact, even on punitive parents, even within this gentle community. *grin*

TulipMama
05-31-2005, 03:55 PM
I have posted for years on an Ezzo-related board (actually that is what lead me here grin).


And praise God, you were one of those gentle voices there that impacted me! *mush, mush*

APMamaX4
06-01-2005, 04:48 AM
Want to know why my post count is so high? Because this is the only online board where I go (except occasionally popping in at one other board where some old friends post). I just realized that life is too short to spend my time debating things like this or getting into it with people who see life through an entirely different paradigm. They don't get children or grace the way I do and we're talking past each other. I 'd rather spend my time around women who see things the way I do, or are being led by God to do so, or who at least have honest questions and are interested. I find so much more peace in my soul when I just post here :)

I agree about sharing information if it's for the silent lurkers who might learn something, and bowing out graciously if it's just about going toe to toe.


What she said :grin

I understand wanting to counter these women for the sake of the lurkers... but I learned a long time ago that a lot of people in cyberspace know about GCM, so if they really care to read about that, they know where to come. I do not waste my time trying to convince people who are, as Crystal said, so entrenched in that way of thinking. You are never gonna change their mind, unless they WANT to change their minds. Seems like they will put up a brick wall to everything you say, which is only more frustrating b/c you want to shake them and say "please stop this way of parenting!" because you have BTDT, and you soooooo know where they are coming from, you know all their fears because they were once your fears, etc. But, you just have to sit back and wait for them to come to you, is what I have learned.

APMamaX4
06-01-2005, 04:57 AM
Something to keep in mind. . .

A lot of punitive parents DO lurk here. This folder and the Gentle Discipline folder are viewable by the public. Many punitive parents lurk and learn here, even before they are ready to even think about registering!

So our discussions here are having an impact, even on punitive parents, even within this gentle community. *grin*


Which is why if I have something to say that I want them to read, w/o posting it on their punitive-geared boards, I post it in UPP or GD (or Let's Talk, but that one is more chit-chatty). I often say things that would get me kicked off punitive boards for not supporting spanking, in hopes that they will read it and, even though they won't admit to it, that they will stop and think about it. I hope that something will strike a chord w/them, the way chords were struck with *me*. I just wish they would understand that several parents here have totally BTDT w/their style of parenting, in some cases for longer than they (the spankers) have even been parents!! So, we are quite familiar with that mode of thinking for that style of parenting--we thought the same things at one point, probably even mocking GBD/GD!! And yet, we have managed to be successful with GD/GBD. :grin

CelticJourney
06-01-2005, 05:11 AM
And praise God, you were one of those gentle voices there that impacted me! *mush, mush*

:O Are you sure you are remembering it correctly - I usually describe myself as 'subtle as a two-by-four upside the head' not as a gentle voice :lol Wouldn't a 'board reunion' be wonderful! I really miss some of the 'old timers'.

TulipMama
06-01-2005, 07:16 AM
So, we are quite familiar with that mode of thinking for that style of parenting--we thought the same things at one point, probably even mocking GBD/GD!! And yet, we have managed to be successful with GD/GBD.

Amen! I was the "perfect" punitive parent in my very first years of parenting. And I rejoice at God's grace towards me and my children--and how successful gentle, grace-conscious discipline has been for me and my boys.


Are you sure you are remembering it correctly - I usually describe myself as 'subtle as a two-by-four upside the head' not as a gentle voice.

*L* I know. . . But, while you teamed up with Metachoi on presenting the logical side of things--you were also gracious. Your words have been strong, but never harsh.

milkmommy
05-15-2013, 08:46 AM
weird how did this post end up in my recently responded to threads??

MarynMunchkins
05-15-2013, 11:27 AM
I was wondering the same thing. :scratch

CelticJourney
05-16-2013, 08:30 AM
I'm sure someone, somewhere needed to read something posted here or something :giggle

SalH
05-23-2013, 05:38 AM
maybe it was bumped for me?