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heartofjoy
05-22-2005, 07:45 PM
Remember when a popular homeschooling curriculum (SL) put the wood shed reference in their newsletter? A bunch of people got a little mad about it. :td I am SO glad that the controversy happened otherwise I never would have heard of GCM. Someone linked this site in a thread on the SL forums. I have been here ever since. :mrgreen

My story: I was a psychology major when I met my husband. I grew up attending church, but I was not saved. Two months after we met, I got pregnant. We got married two months later. My first dd was a high needs baby. I always knew I wanted to be a mom, but I had some kind of idealistic vision of what that would be like. DD did not like to be held. She didn't cuddle. She prefered the bottle to nursing. We couldn't figure out cosleeping. Neither of us slept well. She ended up sleeping through the night early and eventually would rather me put her straight in bed than ever try to cuddle with her. She cried alot. I was disappointed that I could not get her to stop crying just by holding her or singing to her. It made me resent her because she wasn't living up to my expectation! :cry (Already failing her mom at the tender age of 2 months!) I was only 22. Her behavior caused me to detach from her. She went to daycare when she was 7 months old so I could go back to school full time. I got my degree in Psychology when she was 18 months. I was 3 months pregnant. I started grad school.

At 18 months, dd went from being a sweet, although active, toddler into some sort of terror. :eek I didn't know what to do with her. From what I learned in my psychology classes I knew that spanking probably wouldn't work. However, pysch classes are not parenting classes and they don't exactly give you specifics in how to parent. I would get so frustrated and angry that I would lash out and hit her. I felt awful, but I couldn't seem to control myself. This went on for the next year. I think somewhere during this time I read Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book Raising Your Spirited Child. I don't think it helped much because dd was still too young.

When dd was 2.5 and I had a 4 month old baby boy, my dh decided it was time to go to church, HIS church. I was very happy! :D I had been pressuring him to go to church for a long time, but he didn't like MY church. So we went, and I was saved. I really met Jesus for the first time. My dh was saved too. He had also never met Jesus, although he grew up going to church. After immersing ourselves in church culture, I started having problems with my grad psych classes. They were so humanistic and ungodly, that I could no longer continue to take them. :spit Besides, I had become committed to being a stay at home mom, so the degree was pointless because I wasn't going to work anytime soon! Quitting school was a good thing for me. However, I rejected pretty much everything I learned, including the effects of spanking. I bought into the line that God wants us to spank our kids. :( Now, I could plan spanking for my dd without feeling guilty! I visited the wood shed site. I implemented first time obedience. I tried to by hyper consistent. I failed.

Things got much worse between me and dd. The antagonism between us was highlighted by the fact that ds was a VERY laid back, low-key kind of kid. I read some articles on the Pearls website. I had read alot of Sears because I loved his AP stuff, but I always skimmed the discipline stuff because I knew he didn't believe in spanking. I really got a mixture of info, but I seemed to hang onto the idea that I could not let dd control me, I had to win, I had to be consistent, and I had to spank. :banghead

Eventually, I concluded that I could not spank anymore. I was abusing my dd. I still believed that SOME people could spank because they could do it calmly, without anger. As for me, spanking led to abuse. After concluding that I could not spank anymore, do you think I stopped? NO! My out-of-control behavior got worse. There are things I did to my dd that I am not comfortable even sharing with my husband. I mean, I never burned her or gave her bruises, but I would go completely ballistic. I screamed, I put her down verbally, I would drag her. I stopped spanking, but I had nothing to replace it with. And I still had a very demanding, emotional, out-of-control-just-like-her-mother dd. :sa

So I just did the best I could with prayer, trying to cool off, but it seemed I was always failing. On the SL forums, I noticed some posters who would comment about grace when discussing discipline issues. I PMed one of these posters and she shared with me what grace parenting is all about. I kind of knew it all in my heart, but I needed it confirmed. And I still needed more practical application skills. A few weeks later I followed that link here. :) From here I started making mental notes about books recommended. For some reason I have never really enjoyed reading books about discipline, which is what saved me from reading the Pearls or Babywise or Dobson. So the only book in my LLL's library is Siblings W/O Rivalry. Interesting. Lots of good techniques. Then I look at my public library. The only thing there is Becky Bailey's Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline. I start reading. My life starts changing. Well, okay, this was last week, but I have already noticed changes!!!

I am already internalizing many of the concepts. This moment is as it is. I am in control of my emotions. The biggest thing is, I can't remember the last time I lost control. I was still yelling until last week. Now, I am not even really yelling. At least not the out of control yelling out of frustration. It has always been so hard for me to stop these negative behaviors. Now I actually have tools to use so I am not getting frustrated! It's wonderful! I feel so, so, so very blessed! I have prayed for YEARS about my anger issues, and my dd's issues, and I never felt God was going to answer. Nothing ever got better. But NOW He has FINALLY answered my prayers!!! Whoo-hoo! :jump2

Now my question. As much as I love Bailey's book, I would really like some Christian reading material. I have a hard time with "psychobabble" because I sort of renounced it all a few years ago. I don't like to read about Mother Nature, how we evolved, or the inherent good in every child. I have a hard time not just discrediting everything else an author says when he obviously is not a Christian. At least on matters that directly relate to my spiritual life, which parenting does. (Obviously if an atheist told me how to bake a cake, I would have no problem listening!) I looked at the book list, but it doesn't always say if a book is secular or not. I am assuming Biblical Parenting would be good! But I really want something that tells HOW not WHY. I already know that God doesn't want me to spank. I don't need a theological treatise on why.

Whoever started these messageboards, THANK YOU and God Bless You.
:hugs

AmyDoll
05-22-2005, 07:51 PM
If you're just looking for reading material - start with Crystal's Website www.aolff.org & order her book!

I like Crystal's book Biblical Parenting and I like everything by Dr. Sears, including his Discipline Book. Dr. Sears is a Christian, too.

If you have specific questions about the "how's" of it all - ask away and be specific about scenarios! There's lots of smart & resourceful mommas here!!

Welcome to GCM!!
xoxo Amy

4blessings
05-22-2005, 08:11 PM
Hi! Glad you're here!

I loved Families Where Grace Is In Place. I had several "lightbulb" moments reading it, even as a non-spanking, AP, GD mom. It's not just about parenting, but also talks about DH/DW relationships, etc. It's a great book and made so much sense to me. I didn't feel like it was "psycho-babblish" (is that a word? LOL!) at all. It does include a lot of "Why" info, but I learned some "Hows", too.

Katherine
05-22-2005, 08:30 PM
You might try re-reading Raising Your Spirited Child. Now that your dd is older, it might really resound with you. It it absolutely packed full of specific ideas and suggestions on how to handle situations.

Biblical Parenting does have some practical "tools" in it. I am currently reading Relational Parenting, which is Christian, but not *totally* anti-punishment. Still, the book is laced with some good specific suggestions about connecting.

There are other books, I'm sure.. but to be honest, the majority of specific tools, situational help, and practical advice that I've gathered has come from reading and posting on this board. :hearts :tu

I would also encourage you not to totally avoid reading about concepts and ideas. Even after I was determined not to spank, there were a lot of old ideas that subtly impacted (and hindered) my efforts at gentle parenting. Some of the biggest "breakthroughs" I've had occurred not as a result of learning how to handle a specific situation, but from having a a shift in my beliefs or attitude that was prompted by a sudden, newfound understanding of an idea. Our subconscious thoughts/beliefs are very powerful.

Thanks for sharing your story. :hug Glad you are here with us!!

Sara
05-22-2005, 08:36 PM
Desiree, Thank so much for your openness and for sharing your story! :heart I was one of the moms who was really frustrated with SL over that incident. What a reminder for me that God can work in so many ways - I need to be more mindful of that.

"Jesus on Parenting" by Teresa Whitehurst and "Heartfelt Discipline" by Clay Clarkson are two books (in addition to Crystal's) that have been life-changing for our family. I would highly recommend them! :)

MarynMunchkins
05-22-2005, 09:02 PM
I have two hners less than 15 months apart. :) I understand about spanking and being out of control in other ways too. :( But GBD has helped us immensely! :tu

Jane Nelson's Positive Discipline in the Christian Home and Positive Discipline:A-Z offer a lot of practical advice. :)

APMamaX4
05-23-2005, 05:02 AM
First, if you'll read the two recent threads I started here, "Serious problem please help", followed by the update, you will see that you and I seem to have a lot in common........along with several other posters here who followed "that" style of parenting at one time. It's uncanny the number of posters who come from that background and come away from it with similar stories.

Second.. I would challenge you to try to let go of the notion that anything not christian might be 'psychobabble.' I don't say this to be mean or snarky at all :grin The only reason I say this is because *I* also had a VERY hard time at first letting go of the idea of their being 'psychobabble' books, and how we shouldn't be reading them, etc. A thought that has crossed my mind before is.... I wonder if people like the Pearls and others who run websites with a huge following of very pro-spankers (hint, hint) don't tell people that so that they can *secure* your "mind" so to speak. What I mean is... I always found it interesting how they would denounce books of "psychobabble"...and yet the Pearls books and the one the website owner is currently writing is just a-ok! Why is that, if the only thing we should be reading (per them) is the bible? So then I wonder if they don't say that stuff just to drill it into your mind that reading too much is bad, yet their books are ok..so if/when you do finally get a hold of a psychobabble book, you will think "Uh huh...this is what they warned me I would read!" and denounce it?

Anyway, you've been given some great suggestions, so if you only want Christian books, you should have plenty. But the other books suggested are also very "hands on". I know Easy To Love, Difficult to Discipline is great not only because it offers *practical* suggestions (which is what you are looking for) but also it is wonderful in helping you make that paradigm shift in changing your mindset and the way you view your children's behavior. :)

purplerose
05-23-2005, 08:05 AM
Welcome and thanks for sharing your story!! :cup The advice you gotten already is wonderful! :tu Also, another good book is "Love and Logic: A Practical Guide to Parenting" by the Fays.........they are Christian and is very non-punitive and you learn to give your children choices. :highfive :tu Also, the Dr. Sears books are great too! And keep posting here for lots of love and support! Also, prayer and daily scripture study really helps me to be much more gentle and patient with my dc!!!! :pray :amen

heartofjoy
05-23-2005, 08:24 AM
I would also encourage you not to totally avoid reading about concepts and ideas. Even after I was determined not to spank, there were a lot of old ideas that subtly impacted (and hindered) my efforts at gentle parenting. Some of the biggest "breakthroughs" I've had occurred not as a result of learning how to handle a specific situation, but from having a a shift in my beliefs or attitude that was prompted by a sudden, newfound understanding of an idea. Our subconscious thoughts/beliefs are very powerful.

You are right. I know Easy to Love is causing a "paradigm shift" as Crystal says. :tu It's certainly not Christian, but God is using it to help me. It's just that I don't have loads of time to spend reading, so I need a few concise books. Also, much of my reason for changing discipline styles comes from reading the Bible. I decided to try to be more loving, compassionate, and full of grace for my kids because of what I read in God's word. But I have always had a hard time implementing what I knew because the Bible does not give specific suggestions. Does that make sense? :/

Subconcious beliefs are powerful. That's why I should avoid punitive material. I don't think I could read it right now without it affecting my actions.

heartofjoy
05-23-2005, 08:29 AM
I was one of the moms who was really frustrated with SL over that incident.


I know! I responded to your post that you should give SL another look! :tu If that controvery had not ever happened....I don't know if I ever would have found this place.

heartofjoy
05-23-2005, 08:44 AM
APMamaX4,

Thanks! I did read your post last week, and it prompted me to write this one. I almost replied to you to let you know that you were NOT alone.

And as for "psychobabble," I always just preferred reading books written by parents, not professionals. I, mean, why should I listen to someone who hasn't had personal contact with children? I understand why people would listen to the Pearls or the others. They have lots of kids. They seem well-behaved. They must be doing something right! Or so the theory goes. :rolleyes Except not all of these children are grown up and on their own. Maybe they need to write their books when all the kids are gone and they can really look back and see if they've been successful. My goal isn't to produce obedient, perfect children. I guess if it was, I could keep trying to follow "that" discipline style. But my goal is to produce kids who love and serve the Lord with all their hearts. :hearts And also kids who love and praise their mother! ;)

Easy to Love is helping me with the paradigm shift. I just keep cringing at certain phrases. It reminds me that I am getting my advice from a non-Christian. That just bugs me. But then I read other thing and I think, "Hey, the Bible says that too!" :highfive That's cool! :)

I think I am going to try reading Sears. I have never read The Discipline Book. He's not only a Christian, but also a professional. And he has tons of kids too!

UltraMother
05-23-2005, 10:53 PM
Changing your mindset is definitely the hardest part of changing your discipline style. I was a punitive, adversarial mama for 8 years. I also second the advice to go back and read the books/articles that the hard-core spankers denounce as "ungodly because they don't spank". Since you now view your relationship with your children as a positive one, there are some excellent and useful ideas in them. I just finished Unconditional Parenting, by Alfie Kohn, but he does cite secular research, so your mind might still automatically block his other points out. And he does point out that religion has not done us any favors in this area of parenting (which,imo, is sadly justified).

APMamaX4
05-24-2005, 07:31 AM
Easy to Love is helping me with the paradigm shift. I just keep cringing at certain phrases. It reminds me that I am getting my advice from a non-Christian. That just bugs me. But then I read other thing and I think, "Hey, the Bible says that too!" That's cool!

I think I am going to try reading Sears. I have never read The Discipline Book. He's not only a Christian, but also a professional. And he has tons of kids too!

That's why I love Sears--he is everything wrapped up in one guy ;)

About the paradigm shift... that is extremely crucial, because even though you make up your mind not to spank.. when you see your children "disobeying" or "rebelling" you get stuck, even if you DO have the right tools in your toolbox. Chances are at that point you'll get fed up with "all the disobedience", (and maybe even backslide). However.... if you make that paradigm shift and *change your whole outlook*, you won't see all of their actions as "disobedience". I'm trying to think of how to word this correctly... OK, if you have those ultra-punitive I am the boss glasses on, you see 100 incidences of disobedience in one day. If you, however, make the paradigm shift and view their behavior in an entirely new light, you will see maybe 5. Much easier to deal with 5 w/o spanking and getting upset than 100. Clear as mud?? :)