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View Full Version : Who's Ferber & what does it mean to Ferberize?


Dizzy Blond
05-02-2005, 02:40 PM
I've heard a lot about "Ferberizing" you dc. What does that mean? I read something on babycenter.com this morning by someone who was a "gentler" version of Richard Ferber (he has some book on sleeping), but she still said not to bf babies to sleep. :td What's up with that? I bf my dd to sleep and she sleeps on her own when I'm not there, too (so she debunked that silly myth).

snlmama
05-02-2005, 02:45 PM
Ferber is a sleep "expert" who did extensive studies on sleep. His book is actually quite useful - I read it.

His main theory has to do w/ sleep associations and that led to his CIO advice. He also has some useful info on how sleep works in general that is very useful. He does recommend against letting babies CIO before they are 6 months old and his book states that *some* babies need to eat during the night until they are a year old and CIO will not help if this is the problem. The CIO is just his solution to *one* sleep issue that kids can have. He offers other advice for other sleep issues.... I think he would be appalled by the Ezzo program. ;)

sadie
05-02-2005, 04:39 PM
Ferber himself came out against CIO later on, saying that his earlier advice was wrong and not healthy for the baby. I can't find the link...when I do I will post it.

righteous mama
05-02-2005, 05:07 PM
Ferber believes in gradual sleep training. He does believe in CIO, but in gradual steps. Eventually the result is supposed to be you putting baby down awake and baby falls asleep on his/her own.

Personally I like what Dr. Sears says
On the surface, baby training sounds so liberating, but it's a short-term gain for a long-term loss. You lose the opportunity to know and become an expert in your baby. Baby loses the opportunity to build trust in his caregiving environment. You cease to value your own biological cues and judgment and follow the advice of someone who has no biological attachment, nor investment, in your infant.

Your babies are only babies for a short time. I would rather spend a year or two rocking my little ones to sleep then to miss out on that time for the sake of sleep training. Dh and I often say that we "Fockerize" our little ones (and big ones!)...we love that movie!

milkmommy
05-02-2005, 05:11 PM
My mother recieves a package of "infant care" every year from Texas Early intervention. I never really paid attention to it till way after DD birth but their is a large "sleeping guide" that was co written with Ferber on it (can't recall the other) anyways its actually really good. They go through a HUGE list of things to consider (wet, hungry, cold, hot, lonely, sick, gassy, over stimulated , under stimulated, to tired, not tired, allergies, colic a really complete list and holding comforting baby is HIGHLY reccomended. It says IF all these things have been ehausted and/or your feeling frustrated then lay baby in a safe place and take five mintues it also suggests if possible allowing the other parent to keep watch for that time (so you can gain composure) then recoomends atempting to comfort baby again if they don't settle on their own. Its not the extreme CIO that Ezzo ect reccomend
I'm not advocating CIO here I prefer methods such as Sears but considering this information goes out to many "unprepared moms" like teen moms single moms the "five minute" rule I didn't read as "Its okay to ingnore baby" but as its okay to walk away for a few if your feeling over whelmed. Id rather a baby be put in a safe place to CIO a bit then have a parent physically harm them.


Deanna

mamahammer
05-02-2005, 08:55 PM
His method of CIO/Sleep training involves "gradual" extinction - Lying baby in crib, letting them cry for 5 minutes, going in to shush or pat for a few seconds, leaving and letting them cry for 10 minutes, shushing and patting for another few seconds, and then leaving and letting baby cry for 15 minutes. Supposedly, you should keep at 15 minute intervals the first night until baby falls asleep. The next night, you work in 10, 15, 20 minute intervals...then 15, 20, 25 minute intervals...etc until baby learns not to cry at bedtime because no one is coming to get them :cry The parents I know who have practiced CIO often talk about using ear plugs, going outside and/or using headphones to drown out the sounds of their crying baby :eek Ferber, Mindell and Weisbluth all stress that even if your baby vomits while CIO, you shouldn't let go of the training. Clean baby and crib up silently and then leave baby again. I just don't know how a mama does that :bheart

milkmommy
05-02-2005, 09:14 PM
Ferber, Mindell and Weisbluth all stress that even if your baby vomits while CIO, you shouldn't let go of the training. Clean baby and crib up silently and then leave baby again. I just don't know how a mama does that broken heart

Ferber completely speaks out against this practice now.

Deanna

sadie
05-02-2005, 09:52 PM
Yes, that is what i was referring to. Ferber has publicly stated that he was very wrong to advocate those practices, and he denounces CIO in general now.

Too bad he doesn't see the need to recall all his old books that give the advice. :(

Soliloquy
05-03-2005, 01:52 PM
Ferber did recant some of his statements--he now says that co-sleeping can be a great arrangement, if done safely and if everyone involved sleeps well.
Ferber states, "Even if you and your child seem happy about his sharing your bed at night, and even if he seems to sleep well there, in the long run this habit will probably not be good for either of you, and you should consider making some changes in the nighttime routines."4 Similarly, Ferber writes, "Although taking your child into bed with you for a night or two may be reasonable if he is ill or very upset about something, for the most part this is not a good idea. We know for a fact that people sleep better alone in bed. Studies have shown that the movements and arousals of one person during the night stimulate others in the same room to have more frequent wakings....Sleeping alone is an important part of his learning to be able to separate from you without anxiety and to see himself as an independent individual. This process is important to his early psychological development. In addition, sleeping in your bed can make your child feel confused and anxious rather than relaxed and reassured." More recently, however, Ferber has been quoted as saying, "I wish I hadn't written those sentences....It is a blanket statement that is just not right. There's plenty of examples of co-sleeping where it works out just fine. What's really important is that the parents work out what they want to do."5
http://www.contemporarypediatrics.com/contpeds/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=139760

He has also pubicly said that Ezzo's program/books could be harmful to infants and that infants should NOT be sleeping through the night at 8 weeks--they're too young and need the fluid/nourishment during the night.
Dr. Richard Ferber, director of Boston's Center for Pediatric Sleep Disorders at Children's Hospital and the author of the bestselling "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" (Simon and Schuster). [rebuts Ezzo] "Parents shouldn't expect babies to sleep that long that early, although a very few will on their own and in that case, you may sometimes need to actually wake them to feed them," says Ferber. "There is no good evidence that babies that young can go that long without a feeding."
http://dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/08/cov_06feature.html

Ferber's book is called Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems and it's in most libraries. I actually think his advice for what to do with older children (school age and up) with sleep problems is pretty good. He also doesn't take a hard stand on sleep for infants like Ezzo does. He writes that if a mom is okay with nursing her baby to sleep, there's no reason to stop, just be aware that the baby will want to continue it for a long time and that night wakings are more likely when a baby is nursed to sleep. I'm NOT recommending his book, but his book is certainly not as bad as Ezzo's book.

righteous mama
05-03-2005, 04:16 PM
Lisa, that's good to know! I also wouldn't recommend the book, but it's good to know that those reading it will get those words. :)

oops...baby crying!

milkmommy
05-03-2005, 04:28 PM
Personally I have found the "new" feerbeer advice to be a good source for moms who are trying to get away from the extremes of Ezzo but all out AP methods scare them. I know its not the ideal situation but its TONS better. :shrug

Deanna

Soliloquy
05-03-2005, 08:09 PM
Personally I have found the "new" feerbeer advice to be a good source for moms who are trying to get away from the extremes of Ezzo but all out AP methods scare them. I know its not the ideal situation but its TONS better. :shrug

Deanna


I agree with you, Deanna. Some people are totally wigged out by the idea of co-sleeping and/or that their baby might not "sleep through the night" until he's 2 or 3. Ezzo writes that ALL babies are capable of sleeping through by 8 weeks if the parents do it "right," meaning CIO for as long as it takes. :sick :(. Ferber openly acknowledges that all babies are different and all families are different. What works for one might not work for another. He also writes that babies NEED to be fed during the night until they're at least 4 months old. Way more lenient than Ezzo. For a family that can't accept AP, Ferber is definitely better than Ezzo, just like I think Dobson is better than Pearl.

chelsea
05-03-2005, 10:22 PM
We know for a fact that people sleep better alone in bed.
So all you married ladies would do better not to sleep in the same bed as your husband! ;)
I'm not advocating CIO here I prefer methods such as Sears but considering this information goes out to many "unprepared moms" like teen moms single moms the "five minute" rule I didn't read as "Its okay to ingnore baby" but as its okay to walk away for a few if your feeling over whelmed. Id rather a baby be put in a safe place to CIO a bit then have a parent physically harm them.

I see your point, however I would like to clarify that you are not assuming that a baby born to a single parent is at any greater risk of being harmed than a baby born to a married woman. Most new mothers (married and single) I know are tired/stressed at some point and all babies are at risk if a mother is relying on herself and not God for strength and patience.
Just the ramblings of one of those unprepared "single moms". :smile

milkmommy
05-04-2005, 12:22 AM
I see your point, however I would like to clarify that you are not assuming that a baby born to a single parent is at any greater risk of being harmed than a baby born to a married woman. Most new mothers (married and single) I know are tired/stressed at some point and all babies are at risk if a mother is relying on herself and not God for strength and patience.
Just the ramblings of one of those unprepared "single moms".
No I don't :hug However the "info" package I'm refering to is passed out to young scared moms at places such as crisis centers, teen out reach centers. " Moms" who are babies them selves many who came from eaither no family or abusive ones who assume shutting a baby in a crib is just what you do. I've spoken to these moms they are NOT bad people they are honestly doing what they think they are sosposed to do. I'm refering to extreme cases. I think ALL moms can use this advice I was just refering to the specific situation I know this information is handed out to. Make any sense?

Deanna

chelsea
05-04-2005, 08:14 AM
I think ALL moms can use this advice I was just refering to the specific situation I know this information is handed out to. Make any sense?
Yep! :hug

Dizzy Blond
05-04-2005, 10:20 AM
Thanks for the replies. Its good to see he changed his stance on a lot of his ideas. I hope more would do that. It seems like AP is getting more mainstream acceptance. Hopefully when our children are parents, it will be the norm. :)