How would you respond.....

[poetmom]

to someone who posted that the lack of punishment is "the heart of the problem with GBD" and goes on to talk about how God punishs us? Oh, and then closes with this tidbit: " This will all come to light in a few years, when the results of the "experiments" of child-rearing are before our eyes."

[Lois]

all I can say is grrrr and they obvously don't know how God disciplines us :banghead

[poetmom]

I said something along the lines of this: "He wants us to be perfect, like Him, but he gives us free will to choose to do things that take us away from that perfection, and then we must face the consequences of that choice. Which, IMO, is nothing like punishment."

[Oliveshoots]

Number one, I would ask them to show me where the Bible says that God punishes us. Rebukes us, yes....chastises us, yes....corrects us, yes....but I cannot find a verse where it says God punishes those He loves.

From Bible Gateway.com:
Proverbs 3:12 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


12 because the LORD disciplines those he loves,

as a father [a] the son he delights in.


And from Merriam-Webster online:

Main Entry: 1dis·ci·pline
Pronunciation: 'di-s&-pl&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French & Latin; Old French, from Latin disciplina teaching, learning, from discipulus pupil
1 : PUNISHMENT
2 obsolete : INSTRUCTION
3 : a field of study
4 : training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character
5 a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior c : SELF-CONTROL
6 : a rule or system of rules governing conduct or activity
- dis·ci·plin·al /-pl&-n&l/ adjective

Of course they would then argue that discipline=punishment BUT that is the English interpretaton of the word. Notice that the Latin roots refer more to teaching and instruction than to punishment. Of course, the second definition of instruction is obsolete because modern parenting "experts" have twisted the meaning into control and forced behavior.

I would also quote to them this verse:

1 John 4:17-19 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us.



And that's only the beginning.... ;) I guess it would depend on how well I knew this "poster" and whether or not I thought they would hear me out. Some people are so set in their beliefs, it may do you best just to ignore them. But if you think they are open to some honest discussion about it, you could share those verses (and I'm sure many others.)

Also, I read somewhere a mom made a very good point that if we truly believe Christ took on the punishment for our sins (as well as the sins of our children) why would we then make a mockery of
His atonement by punishing our kids when He's already taken care of that?

[Dizzy Blond]

I would ask that person HOW God punishes us? See what their answer is. If they say God punishes by giving us diseases, then that's pretty sick. If your parent gave you cancer on purpose, would you love them? (I have more on this, if you need it). If God punishes us by witholding something (like the dream job, getting pregnant or getting married), then that's really not punishment at all but waiting for something to take place in our lives before we are ready for the blessing. And GBD does that, too ... allowing for natural consequences, rewards are given for good performance etc. GBD isn't a lack of boundaries, consequences and rules, its just helping kids learn how these work so they are prepared for the real world rather than punishing them for getting it wrong.

[ArmsOfLove]

I'd just post links to the articles I already wrote about this and tell them that the idea that God punishes is a Greco-Roman idea and not a Biblilcal one.

and I'd tell them I'm looking forward to a few years from now because I've already got one young man who I am proud of and enjoy being around and am looking forward to having all of mine a few years older and reaping the fruit of the work I've been doing :)

[Radosny Matka]

In response to the experiment part, I would probably personally just say something along the lines of "well, we will see what happens in 15 years" and then just pass the bean dip. ;)