Kinda dissapointed

[Irene]

well I have always loved our new pastor and wife. She has been so encouraging to me about slinging and EBF and co sleeping and the whole natural health thing. so I thought she was kind of a kindred spirit. :)

well today we went to a baby shower for this single girl in our church who just had a baby and the gift our pastors wife brought... To Train up a child and another one by the Pearls :cry she said "some parts are a bit extreme, but its really helped up with parenting, really really good books" :cry I dont know, I just felt so shocked for one, then dissapointed. Trying not to let it cloud my vision of her...

As the gifts were being passed around, my heart was beating fast and I know my face was red :blush I looked at the back and the wording was so positive "spank less" and all these positive words ( I cant really remember now) but anyway, just thought you would all understand. had to vent I guess.

just sad about and trying to put my feelings somewhere :/

[Meli]

:( I'm sorry Irene, after she had been so positive too.

Do you think there might be an opening there with the 'Some parts are a bit extreme" comment to discuss it with her and try and find some different options which have good stuff without what she is already admitting are the negatives?

[MarynMunchkins]

:hissyfit Why can you never find AP, non-punitive Christians IRL?!

I'm sorry, Irene. :hug Do you think you can bring it up with her?

[ArmsOfLove]

:cry

[mom2threePKs]

my heart was beating fast and I know my face was red :blush
just sad about and trying to put my feelings somewhere :/


I know that heart beating fast face red feeling so well. I feel that way when ever I go on a home visit and see Babywise on the nightstand of the new parents. :hug to you! God has a lways provided a way for me to talk about BW with those new parents. I'll pray that he does the same for you.

Magan

[Irene]

I think I might be able to talk to her some. I might probably just chicken out though too :/

I just keep thinking about this though... do the Pearls do CIO? Pastors wife seemed that she never did that. always talked about co sleeping and stuff. the wierd thing is I was so shocked that she was Pearl. I guess i had this image in my head of these evil controlling parents :blush :blush or something and she is always so sweet to her kids, I was so impressed by the relationship she has with her kids, as opposed to all the Ezzo people in our church. and she has said "I never could do the Ezzo thing" Im so confused....

so do the Pearls keep an appearance of lots of love or is it really love? I know parents love their kids... I dont know. Im not super mushy or anything either, but people have commented on our "love" as a family... :think

Im just trying to sort this all out... I think i had ezzo/pearl all tied in together just from my bad ezzo experience...

[MarynMunchkins]

Well, the short answer is yes. :( Pearl does advocate letting a child cry. But it is not for the same reason as Ezzo. Ezzo believes that crying is good for a child because it helps them regulate a schedule which provides consistency and routine for the mom. :/ Pearl advocates crying as training that they are not the most important member of the family. As far as I can tell, Pearl isn't big into crying in order to go to sleep - just crying so they can learn to wait. :rolleyes

[Irene]

:cry thats so sad... but they are natural and co sleep at the same time? that seems so uh... weird to me :think like how can you be bonding with your baby then at the same time teach them a lesson by letting them scream? weird... :shrug

[sadie]

As Crystal said elsewhere, people who say they are really natural and AP, but believe in spanking are usually Pearl followers. :(

The Pearls are AP about a lot of things, bfing, EC, "tying heartstrings," etc. But their views on discipline are totally warped.

So a parent can be very natural and loving and seem very AP, but is actually a Pearl follower. If you have the stomach to read TTUAC, you'll see what I mean. :td

[Irene]

I dont have the stomach :sickI was reading I think wendy's thing on in and could barely get past the first few paragraphs... :sick o well. it kind of "makes sense" I guess now although Im sad about it :cry

[Spyder]

Pearl advocates crying as training that they are not the most important member of the family.

Pearl does not advocate this. I think they would advocate telling a child to be quiet, more than letting them scream. That's what I have gathered from reading their books.

[katiekind]

Pearls keep an appearance of lots of love or is it really love?

the Pearls get a lot right. I'm sure this is the appeal of their books. They are very strong on love in the family. However the bad stuff is really poisonous and sick and I think it would be very hard for normal people to blend the "training" mindset (resulting as it would in constant conflict--at least for awhile) with the close loving attitudes that the Pearls advocate and encourage.

[chelsea]

Pearls keep an appearance of lots of love or is it really love?
I'm pretty sure they love their children. There are a lot of parents out there who mistakenly believe that punitive discipline is love and that our kind of parenting is not. :wow I read their book and it crushed my heart to think of parents with what seem to be truly good intentions but who are SO wrong! :cry

[Hermana Linda]

I just keep thinking about this though... do the Pearls do CIO? Pastors wife seemed that she never did that. always talked about co sleeping and stuff. the wierd thing is I was so shocked that she was Pearl. I guess i had this image in my head of these evil controlling parents :blush :blush or something and she is always so sweet to her kids, I was so impressed by the relationship she has with her kids,

I have gotten so suspicious of any parents who are always kind, gentle and sweet with their kids if the kids are also always kind, gentle and sweet. Pearl parents never raise their voices, the kids are taught to always obey right away with a sweet attitude. They rarely discipline in front of anyone. They tend to be AP in most ways. I find them chilling and scary. The foundation of the book really is to spank less. The relationship which unfolds with the children really does look good. Once they have the babies under complete control, things are very easy and good for the parents. As far as Pearl and his followers are concerned, the end justifies the means.

[MarynMunchkins]

From Pearl's website...

You must start training your children one year before their first birthday, because if you don’t, they will be trained without your input. A sapling grows the way you bend it. But if you don’t bend it, it will grow and take shape just the same, though not as you would have it. It will be shaped by the prevailing winds, which, you can be sure, never blow in the right direction.

From day one, every conscious moment of a child’s life is training; every event, and non-event, is schooling, preparation for the rest of life. If a child’s eyes can see, tongue can taste, nose can smell, hands can feel, or ears can hear, training is in progress. Parents don’t need to initiate a program, set aside a time, or confront the child in some special way for training to occur. Training and schooling never cease, never rest. A child develops with or without you. If you are not deliberately leaving your imprint on every stage of his development, know that someone is.

A child left to himself in a crib or a room is being trained.


If a child cries out in loneliness and is rewarded by being picked up, you have trained him to repeat the crying any time he wants to control the adults in his life

The first six months of a child’s life is much more formative than most parents realize. The first three years molds personality and sees the establishment of the child’s world-view. Children can be trained after three years, but much of the training amounts to enabling the child to function in spite of bad habits instilled in those early months and years.

I think it's safe to say that they would be okay with letting a baby scream. :(

BTW, the above quotes are all from the same article. I just picked relevant pieces rather than posting the whole thing. :)

[Sara]

One of the big differences that I noticed between Ezzo and Pearl and their "sleep training" methods...

Ezzo tells you to let the baby cry for as long as is necessary for him/her to go to sleep.

Pearl tells you to just keep switching the baby until they know *not* to cry when you lay them down. :sick

The Ezzo-style CIO makes me sad and certainly is cause for concern, but the Pearl stuff really, really frightens me. Switching tiny babies is just so fundamentally wrong there aren't even words to describe...

[Irene]

See, I never saw the whole family dynamic as creepy or anything like that. There are a lot of families in our church who are like that, really happy and strangely calm and all that, but these kids all act like *normal* kids and all that, which was why I kind of felt blindsided by the whole thing.... I mean, like when I was visiting the 4 yr old would come bounding into the room being loud and the mom would talk to him and we would let the kids play together... I dont know.. i was so hoping she was close to GBD... :cry

they came to our house and saw all the Sears/ positive parenting books on my shelf...

I had that talk last year with the pastor telling him I dont hit my kids oh what he must think of me :blush

[Sara]

Irene, :hug I'm really sorry to hear that you felt blindsided. I had a similar experience with a friend who I thought seemed really loving and caring with her children. She seemed to be very open to some APish things and her kids weren't the zombie kind that you sometimes see. So I was shocked when I found out that she uses and highly recommends the Pearls materials. I thought she might be my one chance at finding a like-minded friend, so I was really devastated when this information came to light, especially since I was able to see some really disturbing patterns of interaction with her children (I don't know why I hadn't noticed before).


Pearls keep an appearance of lots of love or is it really love?

the Pearls get a lot right. I'm sure this is the appeal of their books. They are very strong on love in the family. However the bad stuff is really poisonous and sick and I think it would be very hard for normal people to blend the "training" mindset (resulting as it would in constant conflict--at least for awhile) with the close loving attitudes that the Pearls advocate and encourage.

I agree, Kathy. The bad stuff really scares me. I think it unfortunate that the Pearl materials are so similar to the Ezzo materials in that they use scare tactics in order to get parents to believe that there is this one right way to do things. They both like to use lots of examples of really "bratty" children that aren't being raised using their own methods. People adopt Pearl's methods in that same all-encompassing way that they implement Ezzo's methods.

[Maggie]

:( :hug

[TulipMama]

I think it unfortunate that the Pearl materials are so similar to the Ezzo materials in that they use scare tactics in order to get parents to believe that there is this one right way to do things. They both like to use lots of examples of really "bratty" children that aren't being raised using their own methods. People adopt Pearl's methods in that same all-encompassing way that they implement Ezzo's methods.

I believe this is an accurate observation.

And, for all the families that seem peaceful with well-behaved children and mothers who are always calm--well, praise God! I believe that Pearl parents (like Ezzo parents) truly love their children and want the best for them--they've just been led into ideas that are ultimately harmful to the family.

I've known many mothers who are using Pearl-esque methods who are really struggling, and keep swatting more and more, "ambushing" and setting themselves up to have an adversial mindset--and it isn't "working." They are told that if it isn't "working" that it is their fault for not being "consistent" and the problem is always with THEM, the mother--not the method or their child not being the right "fit" for it. I've known mothers who started out being very calm with the training swats and big spankings, who were conditioned to have that as the only training tool--and when anger manifested they started spanking in anger in a way anyone would consider abusive. I really believe that the Pearl methods lead to a lot of well-intentioned child abuse in Christian families, from mothers who dearly love their children and would never want to abuse them.

And I've seen plenty of children who have grown up in homes like this (I knew a lot when I was younger, and have seen them come of age) who have rebelled, rejected their families, rejected their faith--because they were rejecting the controlling way they were raised. And I know children from Pearl families who haven't--who outwardly have done all the "right" things (courtship, staying in church, super conservative themselves, etc)--but they are still struggling with perfectionism, internalizing their faith, and understanding God's grace and the Gospel.

Anyway. . . All this to say, yes, I believe Pearl parents truly love their kids. But they are misled and I believe their parenting choices are ultimately more harmful, even if they seem to produce "obedient" kids in the short run.


(Edited to add. . . Wow--I was really on a roll. I thought I wanted to add just one small comment. *L* Here's more about the Pearls (http://www.tulipgirl.com/mt/archives/000636.html), fwiw._

[Irene]

thanks TulipMama,
I know they all love their kids, and everyone wants the best for them. Its just terribly sad :cry

I think its so emotional for me right now because they are the pastor, they have such an influence over others. and he preaches Grace and Gods love and all that... I honestly thought, they must be GBD, even if they dont know it ;)

and after thinking about it some, you know, she has been an encouragement to me. she has cared for me and loved me and never ever ever been judgemental to me about anything. I have never felt so cared for by anyone in the church, except one. So, Im going to hang on to that, see that she does love her children, and not focus on the Pearl thing. Assigning positive intent ;) :)

[MarynMunchkins]

I've known many mothers who are using Pearl-esque methods who are really struggling, and keep swatting more and more, "ambushing" and setting themselves up to have an adversial mindset--and it isn't "working." They are told that if it isn't "working" that it is their fault for not being "consistent" and the problem is always with THEM, the mother--not the method or their child not being the right "fit" for it. I've known mothers who started out being very calm with the training swats and big spankings, who were conditioned to have that as the only training tool--and when anger manifested they started spanking in anger in a way anyone would consider abusive. I really believe that the Pearl methods lead to a lot of well-intentioned child abuse in Christian families, from mothers who dearly love their children and would never want to abuse them.


This was ME! :eek :cry :( I read that stupid book, and even when I wanted to be gentle, I kept thinking "I have to be consistent" :sick and "Spanking is Biblical" :sick so I kept spanking. And when it didn't work, I got mad at myself for "doing something wrong" and started spanking more often and harder. :cry It was when my dad suggested using a belt and I listened :eek that I got scared enough to find a better way.

GCM came into my life at just the right time - it was a true answer to prayer because I was asking God to show me how to be a good mom. :heart Because, in all honesty, I was an out of control, violent, abusive mom. :blush :(

That's why I'm so vocal about GBD - because I've gone from being like that the majority of the time to just having bad moments. And, frankly, I know far too many people who can't be given any license to spank because it leads to violence towards their children - no matter how great a parent they claim to be. I can't justify not speaking up.