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View Full Version : Forced Apologies and variety in GBD


Joanne
04-08-2005, 05:26 AM
There have been several threads lately (Nanny inspired, to some degree) about apologies.

Many GBD moms don't use them or don't agree with them.

But, I do and I've changed my mind on them. I wanted to post a link to my blog about the topic. I think it's important for people to know that GBD parents aren't clones and that GBD can look different and still be GBD.

http://happyhomeschooler.blog-city.com/read/249847.htm

(cut and paste)

Over my years of parenting, I've researched a lot of different parenting models (and here and here). I've even considered some that are completely counter intuitive. I've embraced and discarded many paradigms, ideas, tools.



One firmly held belief I had early on was that a child should never be forced or encouraged to offer an apology. They should offer one if they felt moved to. They would learn about apologies through life experience. And they would be surrounded with the loving, honest, sincere and empathetic model my DH and I demonstrate.



I held that belief into the first few years of my oldest's life. And I have one thing to say to those involved in my son's life at that time: I'm sorry.



I finally realized and admitted that my thinking was flawed and my son and his people deserved better. I realized that in my adult life, I often have to *act* my way into the right thinking. I have to clean the toilet before I feel like cleaning toilets. I have to start rubbing my DH's feet before I want to rub his feet (sorry, dear, for that juxtaposition). I have to rub my children's back and read them a story even when I am exhausted from a long day.



My children need to develop the character that enables them to do the right thing regardless of their *feelings*. Looking back, when I started parenting, I was coming from a self-centered, immature place where one's feelings were elevated to degree where feelings were given too much power and attention. I believed the self esteem lie.



I honestly believe than any mature long term relationship (marriage, friend, child, parent) will at some point include apologies that aren't "sincere". They will sometimes be muttered as a social nicety. Sometimes they will be offered simply to keep peace. Other times, the function will be to keep peace but the level is higher. We decide that our need to be right is less important than our need to be "happy".



I expect my children to learn the intricacies of apology the same way I expect (and demand) they learn other things: through consistent training, attention and progressively higher levels of expectations on my part. That, and lots of grace. :)

Quietspirit
04-08-2005, 05:31 AM
Joanne, sometimes I think we are twins ;) (either that or clones! :lol)

:tu

This Busy Mom
04-08-2005, 07:11 AM
We don't have a problem with apologies. We have a problem with with the recipient accepting them :doh .

LAS
04-08-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm with you. I've made good progress in transitioning over into a non-punitive mindset, but have really prayed and have never felt convicted against having my DD apologize. We've actually been blessed by doing this. Her little brother has a very sensitive heart and will just reach out and hug her when she comes to him to apologize- even if she's still upset at him. His actions have had the effect of melting DD's heart and making her truly sorry and hug and kiss him back. It's one of the sweetest exchanges that happens between the two of them.

I don't know what I would do if I were in the OP's situation and DS wouldn't accept the apology. Probably try to learn how to use some appropriate gentle discipline on the one accepting apologies and forgiving even when they don't feel like it at first. It seems similar to the "forced apologies" situation, but maybe "forced acceptance?" I'd be interested to hear Joanne's perspective on this too.

Radosny Matka
04-09-2005, 07:39 PM
I agree. Now, this may not make any sense to all of you... I do prompt my son to say sorry, but I don't say to him "say sorry." I will say something like "L was pushed. You need to say sorry for hurting her." I always use the "you need" statement, because (at least in MY mind), it puts the responsiblity on him. I do really like the "can you forgive me" line that was been talked about lately. I actually used that on my son, and his reaction was so precious. He smiled yes and gave me a big kiss.

odetta
04-09-2005, 09:20 PM
I teach my son to say "I'm sorry" just as I teach him to say "thank you", "you're welcome", and "please". I've never really bought into the whole "he shouldn't be made to say it until he means it" thinking. I believe he needs to learn the discipline of saying it when appropriate/necessary, and he'll learn the "intricacies of apology", as the OP so eloquently stated, as he matures and grows.

greenemama
04-10-2005, 04:31 AM
this is very good to hear today!

i encourage henry to apologize ("you need to tell jude you're sorry!"). i think that it's good practice for him -- he's learning the proper way to deal with those he's offended.

thanks, joanne. :tu

erinee
04-10-2005, 08:06 AM
I'm glad I"m not the only one here who feels this way.

I read a long time ago that we need to teach our children that sometimes we need to do things we don't necessarily feel like doing. That can include apologies.

If they really don't feel like they've done anything wrong, I teach them to say, "I'm sorry that what I did hurt you." Even if they aren't sorry for what they did, they can be sorry that the other person is hurting.

DogwoodMama
04-10-2005, 12:24 PM
Great post, Joanne. :tu

Now I want to know how you feel about teaching other "nicieties" like saying please, thank you, and excuse me. I know some fear teaching these can make kids "too submisvive" but I do think they are important. My dh was the 4th child of an asocial family, was NOT taught to say these things, and it really bothers me sometimes. :blush

Heather Micaela
04-11-2005, 03:10 AM
I'm glad to see this post. Coming from a childhood in which my dad would NEVER apolgized for his mistakes (he'd reconcile but never admit fault) and yet FORCE apologies out of me but never say"you're forgiven" I am glad to se balance in this discussion.

I mostly model it by saying sorr for my (countless) mistakes w/ my children. What I do ask is that they hug if one has been hurt or offended by the other. Thye don't have to FEEL love, but I am wanting them to SHOW it.

kris10s
04-11-2005, 07:06 AM
:highfive

Thanks Joanne! This really encouraged me. I think there is great benefit in making onesself do things, as a discipline, because they are right, whether one feels like it or not. Reading the Bible, cleaning the house... the list could get really long. It's is good and right to apologize and make amends when you've hurt someone, even if you don't understand why you've hurt them, or they hurt you too, etc.

ArmsOfLove
04-11-2005, 10:28 AM
I have also taught all of my children that "sorry means you stop". If you are really sorry about something then it means you don't do it again.

I do want to say that requiring a child to make amends/apologize in the context of an otherwise GBD home is also very different than your average forced apology where the child is not having their feelings validated, is not being shown or taught empathy, and is being given the lesson that "sorry" is a magic word. I do require my children take responsibility for their actions--I think that's what it boils down to.

erinee
04-12-2005, 11:22 AM
I have also taught all of my children that "sorry means you stop". If you are really sorry about something then it means you don't do it again.

and

and is being given the lesson that "sorry" is a magic word.

Yep, I've been with kids who seemed to think they could do whatever they wanted as long as they said they were sorry, whether they meant it or not. I think the lesson that sorry means you're stop helps keep that from happening.

Joanne
04-12-2005, 03:06 PM
Now I want to know how you feel about teaching other "nicieties" like saying please, thank you, and excuse me. I know some fear teaching these can make kids "too submisvive" but I do think they are important. My dh was the 4th child of an asocial family, was NOT taught to say these things, and it really bothers me sometimes.

I insist that my children learn the social niceties. The one possible except (and I don't consider it a nicety) is to insist a child give some kind of affectionate/physical greeting to another person on request. I don't insist on that and will protect my kids from "having" to hug, kiss, etc if they don't want.

Beyond Blessed
04-12-2005, 03:24 PM
I am so glad to see this post - we encourage our children to apologize and model it for them as well. We teach them please and thank you at a pre-verbal stage with sign language - I won't withold things from them, but I want them to learn early that we treat each other with respect. They deserve respect, as do others. It is sweet to see my 2 yo dd accidently step on my foot and say, "oh, mommy I am so sorry!" :lol I didn't ask her to - she just realizes that she is in control of her actions. I didn't berate her in order to teach this concept, I "loved it into her". I am now incorporating a concept I've seen on this board - retribution. I am now modeling "how can I make it better?". I've encouraged it in a few situations and my children are quickly learning about each other. ds#2 needs time alone to make it better. dd#1 needs a hug to make things better. It's great - I think we are all learning each others love languages! I agree, GBD has many faces .... :) :smile :D :mrgreen :lol :laughtears ;) :P :cool :hearts :spit and I love being able to share ideas and be encouraged by each of the faces on this board!!!!! :heart :grouphug