3.5 yo not listening

[chie96]

Hi! I am sure this has been covered but I wonder what to do about my 3.5 yo DD who simply will not listen. It's like I have to ask her several times to do something and in the end resort to yelling or threats of time on the "naughty step" or a spanking (which I rarely, rarely do, but it gets her attention if I threaten).

For example, I will tell her to take her clothes off in preparation for bedtime (she has been dressing herself and undressing herself for a year now and can handle it perfectly well) and she runs off and dives under the bed. I tell her again, "Holly, it's time for bed. Please take your clothes off and put your pull up on." Next it's, "Holly, it's time for bed. Please take your clothes off and put your pull up on. Now please!" Then comes, "Holly Take take your clothes off and put your pull up on. NOW! If you don't you're going to sit on the naughty step / get a spanking." at which point she usually complies. If she doesn't, she usually goes to the step.

I know I am doing this all wrong. I just read the sticky for "Why Not Time Outs" http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=1473.0 and it made perfect sense to me. I thought the naughty step was a great idea but now see why it is not. I am 110% convinced that spanking is wrong, but will admit that I have spanked - mainly when I am at my very wits' end which is not good.

In my desire to not spank her I feel that I am without a way to get her to behave. I can talk and tell and ask nicely until I am blue in the face :hissyfit If she doesn't want to start buckling herself into her car seat or cleaning up her toys or... she simply won;'t do it until she is threatened. I actually give her tons of positive reinforcement (people have actually commented on it) but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

I also just read about the "Five Steps" http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?topic=250.0 Is that all I need to do to start? Just try the steps? It sounds like it would really work, but what about those trimes when I can not get up and help her (like when I am bf DD#2)? I am interested to see how this works.

DH and I are big on personal responsibility - I want to teach our girls that they are responsible for themselves and their actions / how those actions affect others. We also want them to "behave" and make wise choices b/c it's the right thing to do - not b/c they might get caught. Do you all know what I mean?

OK - rambled enough and Holly is demanding that I "listen to (her), now!"

[MarynMunchkins]

:hug I'm a recovered spanker too. ;) It's very hard to shift from the punitive mindset, especially if you're so frustrated that you have trouble thinking of anything else to do.

The 5 steps are a very wonderful concrete list of things *to do* while you're coverting to GBD. Of course, they work all the time, but it really helps when you're staring at a screaming childing wondering what you're supposed to do. :) IME, you don't offer to help if you can't. You have to make sure that you really can help, because GBD is a lot of proactive parenting. I think we've coined it "get off your butt" parenting. :lol

One thing that Crystal said has really stuck with me. She was talking about feeling frustrated because our kids *should* be able to do the things we tell them to do (like getting dressed) and won't. And how she had to stop and think, "But they can't. It's my job to help." :D It really helps me to refocus and I often realize that I'm frustrated because I simply don't want to take the time to be a parent. I'm tired and I want my kids to do it themselves. :blush

3.5 is a rough age. So don't get discouraged if it doesn't seem like it is working - it does work, and it will make a world of difference. :mrgreen

[ArmsOfLove]

Yep--the 5 Steps is where I'd start and as for while bf'ing I either don't say anything until I can help if needed or I put the baby down and help. Tha'ts part of the joy of being the second (or more) born :shrug Children also need to know that you will still enforce the boundaries after the new baby is born because if you can't then they feel unsafe.

Another thing I wanted to mention from your post is that I never use the word "please" unless what I'm saying is optional. It seems like it would be good to teach them how to be polite, but the reason it *is* polite is that it leaves the choice up to them. If it's not a choice, and if you will be upset if she doesn't do it, "please" is a misleading word. That's why it's not part of the 5 Steps--they are used when what you're instructing isn't optional :)

[akmyilee]

;) When I was reading your mesg I though I had written it.........this is EXCATLY what we are going though with my son. We KNOW he can do something, like getting dressed, and he just won't! UGG! :banghead So we started doing the 5 steps (my dh who isn't really into the whole GBD thing is really doing good with this) I guess I am lazy though, I don't think i should have to "help" him do somethign that he can do himself. I am working on that though and have really learned that he is still a little boy, and I am goign to be sad someday when I can help him anymore, I am trying to look at it like a privilage to "help" him. On the other hand, like if we are in a hurry or I am feeding the baby I will use rewards, yes, used carefully I do think they are approiate. Same with losing privlages, for my son it is the TV, if he out and out says, NO! I am not going to do what you want and if I ask him if he needs me to help and he says NO! I ask him if he would like to lose his TV privliages? usually this gets him (Ok, I am just realizing this now, but I guess I am making a 6th step to the 5 steps....don't think I am suppose to do that but it is working for us) If not then I tell him he can't have TV for a whole day and then do I finish the 5 steps thing. It seldom gets this far, I have been doing this for a couple of weeks now and I have only had to take away the TV once. You have to find your childs currrency though (this is a Dobson thing, shh don't tell anyone that I have read his books :shifty) For my son it is the TV, it could be a fav toy or a trip to the park or somethign? Anyway I am no expert by anymeans I am still learning to be sure, we have just recently decided not to be punitive (no spankings or timeouts). It is a lot more work, but totally worth it. Keep working and over time you will see the results I am sure :)

[RealLifeMama]

Laurie, you sound just like my DH when he is trying to get my DD ready for bed. I listen and think to myself "would you jsut get her ready already?? Just take her clothes off and dress her already!!"

and

We KNOW he can do something, like getting dressed, and he just won't! UGG! :banghead So we started doing the 5 steps (my dh who isn't really into the whole GBD thing is really doing good with this) I guess I am lazy though, I don't think i should have to "help" him do somethign that he can do himself.

Sounds just like my DH, too.

The thing is that I *know* that the right thing is to correctly execute the 5 steps when that happens but sometimes it is really hard and I just am so annoyed that I have to stop what I am doing to "help" her with something she can usually do. So I wind up pleading too and getting frustrated and angry, too. I have to totally remind myself that I am in charge and I need to see that what needs to get done gets done, whether she does it by herself or not. And that I waste more time waiting and pleading than I do helping.
Sometimes I know my DD just would be being difficult, others she just truly was at a point she was no longer able to cooperate and nothing would make her cooperate own, maybe just make her feel bad. So I had to help.

I still see finding a child'c currency (ie, to me that sounds like don't bother trying to make your child feel badly if it is not somethng che cares about- make sure whatever you are using ot make her feel badly really makes her feel badly) is still punitive.

My DD is almost 4 now and I just wanted to encourage you that she is definitely more cooperative and independent (in a good way) now. But geesh, it was a rough 6 months! I had a lot going on physically, so I didn't even follow through as much as I should have, and she is still getting better at cooperating.

HTH!

[Joanne]

To reply to issues in both posts asking for help.........

I agree that personal responsibility is important. Related to that is the other issue mentioned that we shouldn't have to "help".

The development of self control, impulse control, delayed gratification, and self discipline is a process. A life long one. Honest religious leaders admit to struggling with it *daily* in all of their adult years. To expect a child to have it in abundance is very unfair.

We often confuse cognitive ability with maturity and mastery. Children understand the meaning of words long before they are able to consistently employ what's needed to obey.

I have very high standards of behavior for my children. Along with that, however, I have high standards for *me* in order to ensure that their behavior meets those standards. I expect to assist my child in areas for years; not months. I do not believe we can abandon them into maturity. We need to coach, guide and lead them in each area until mastery occurs. Then we have another area in which they need our help.