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View Full Version : 20month old STILL not sleeping through the night. I am REALLY tempted to CIO.


wuzzie
04-05-2005, 09:26 AM
I am just getting SOOOO tired that I am sleeping later and later. Hubby gets up and goes to wotk aroung 7:15, the kids get up around 8 and I just can't drap myself out of bed. We don't end up eating until 10 and I am a walking freaking zombie all day. He is still waking up 3-4 times a night, sometimes more. I have read both no cry and nighttime parenting, and nothing is working. I need for him to sleep. I haven't had a good nights sleep in over 2 years. I know that lack of sleep is one of those sacrifices of parenthood, but my family and I are seriously suffering here. So is Luke, he has started napping 3-4 hours during the day to make up for the sleep hes not getting at night. This just isn't working anymore. HELP please.

flowermama
04-05-2005, 10:29 AM
I'm not expert at all :blush but I thought I'd ask a few questions.

Your son is 20 months, is that right? [eta: of course he is... I just read the title of your post :doh :O] What does he do when he wakes at night? Are you still night nursing?

You said he's still waking 3-4 times a night, so it sounds like it's been going on a long time, am I understanding correctly? When did you start noticing signs that he wasn't getting enough sleep at night -- like, for instance, how long ago did he start taking 3-4 naps during the day?

Have you tried keeping him really busy during the day and helping him get to bed early? Does he watch tv?

Sorry for so many questions. :O

Big hugs to you! :hug

Cherish
04-05-2005, 10:34 AM
Grace gave me her first 8 hr stretch at 20 months old.

Lily sleeps through about 2 nights a week, and she is 2 1/2. Before I got pregnant, she was waking 2-8 times per night since 10 months old. I night weaned her two different times and it changed nothing about her sleeping and waking. For 8 weeks I nightweaned her last fall and she continued to wake.

The only solution that worked for us was, when I got pregnant, to ,sleep on the couch, and have DH deal with her nightwaking. I could not be around at all. So far, it works really well. She wakes up once or twice, and usually its just once. Papa pulls her into bed with him, and she snuggles back to sleep.

I have no more bright ideas than that. Just to take Mama out of the picture.

wuzzie
04-05-2005, 11:40 AM
Yes, he has woken up many times during the night. We have tried many different combinations of eating and sleeping routiens and scheduals. Nothing haas helped. I even tried moving him out of my room for a few months when he was 6 or so minths old. That just made me have to get UP and go to him. I have tried giving him camonile tea and valerian before he goes to sleep. I have also tried homeopathic remedies to help him sleep. Nothing! Just in the past 2 months I have noticed him not getting enough sleep. He has gotten sick 3 times in the past month (and before that nothing) and started sleeping a lot more during the day. I have tried keeping him up during to the day to "help" him sleep better. He co-sleeps with us and usually when he wakes up he nurses. If I am awake enough I will try to pat his back or tush before he is all the way awake to help him not wake up at all. Or sometimes if he does wake up I will tell him it's not time to nurse it's time to sleep. Sometimes he will go back to sleep, but will wake up MORE until I nurse him. Like every hour. He does get to bed around 8-9, but then is half awake for more than 2 hours at night nursing. And yes, he does watch TV sometimes. I wish I could have dh deal with him at night, but he just screams for me and it really isn't fair to ask him to do that because he does need to get up early and go to work. We have tried a few different times, and it just doesn't work.

flowermama
04-05-2005, 12:08 PM
Thank you for sharing more about your situation. I really sounds like you've tried a lot. :hug

There are some good ideas on Dr. Sears' website. I'm not sure if you've perhaps seen them already. ?

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/t070800.asp

If he's been sick so much, though, that could explain a lot of his recent need to nurse frequently and to sleep so much during the day. As a side note, I'm wondering if perhaps some of his nutrients like zinc might be low because of all his sicknesses. Does he take a mulitvitamin? If he doesn't, that might be something to look into.

I also encourage you to check out this article just in case any of these might possibly be affecting your little one's sleep:
HIDDEN MEDICAL CAUSES OF NIGHTWAKING
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/t070400.asp

I guess I'd better explain the reason I mentioned tv. :O It's just that for some children it can be over-stimulating. :)

If he's healthy, I think perhaps putting a consistent plan into effect might be a good thing to try right now. Perhaps consider setting consistent boundaries on night-nursing.

Some moms have noticed that if they take their child outside to play during the day, that can really help. The old saying about fresh air helping one sleep better really seems to be true in many cases. :)

Perhaps an even earlier bedtime might be something to try, if possible.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but I feel confident that there are ways to help you and your little one get more sleep without resorting to CIO. Sometimes finding out what will help is kind of like solving a puzzle, and you never know exactly what the missing "puzzle piece" might be, so hopefully other mamas will share their experiences and thoughts here, too. :heart

:hug

Irene
04-05-2005, 12:13 PM
:hug Im so sorry... kinda going through this myself right now :neutral

wuzzie
04-05-2005, 01:03 PM
Thanks for the ideas and links!! I have a lot of reading and thinking to do. I know that CIO osn't the right choice, I just feel like I have come to the end of my coping abilities. You are right though, I need to make some boundries. I just kinda thought he wasn't getting enough sleep, so he was getting sick. I didn't think about vitamins. I supose I just assumed nursing would take care of all of that. Thanks for reading through all my ramblings Jeri and thanks for the hugs Irene!

Irene
04-05-2005, 01:08 PM
I know sometimes we just need someone to point us in the right direction. Lack of sleep makes for a very foggy brain and not good for thinking :)

2sunshines
04-05-2005, 01:16 PM
:hug

It does get better...

How's your house at night? I mean, is there any sort of stimuli going on that could be waking him up? Things that you might have grown accustomed to? For example, when my ds sleeps over at grandma's he hardly sleeps. She has dogs that bang on the door at night, and the house stays lighted all night. Not to mention the fact that she falls asleep to the tv. She of course, doesn't notice because she's always slept like this, but for him, these are distractions that keep him awake. Not that there is anything that blantant in your house, but it's an example.

Another example is that my dh S-N-O-R-E-S really loud. My ds woke up a lot as a baby. When he was about 10 months, we went on a vacation without dh to visit my sister. Believe it or not, my ds SLEPT ALL NIGHT while we were away. Made me realize that maybe dh's snoring was affecting his sleep more than I thought. Now in that case, we didn't really do anything about it because I wasn't willing to give up dh :mrgreen and ds nor I were willing to give up cosleeping :mrgreen and it wasn't really that big of a deal, but it's an example of how things in the night can affect a child's sleep.

I like Jeri's suggestion for stimulating him during the day. Give him lots of outside time. I notice an incredible difference in my child's sleep when they have had lots of fresh air.

Your baby is right around the age that mine were when I decided to night wean them for that very reason (night waking). We did it very gently and never pushed the issue. What worked for us with both children was that we brought a cup of water to bed and when the child woke up and wanted to nurse, I would offer the water. I don't know if we were lucky or what, but that worked. The child just needed a quick drink, and then we would cuddle and go back to sleep. I'm not suggesting that you night wean -- that's a very personal decision, but I'm just sharing what worked for us.

I'm sorry that you are going through such a hard time. This period of parenting can be very hard. :hug

Maggie
04-05-2005, 01:40 PM
I don't really have anything to add in addition to the great advice you were already given, but I wanted to offer (((((hugs)))))! :hug

cobluegirl
04-05-2005, 04:14 PM
I don't have any advice but my 19 month old does the same thing.....she still gets up 3-4 times a night....

wuzzie
04-05-2005, 05:12 PM
Thank you all so much for the ideas and hugs!!! I think you are lucky, ds won't even drink from a cup during the day, and at night forget it. He just screams for the boobie. We do live in a loud apartment building with people blaring their stereos all night and car alarms going off and such. We do keep a fan on at night to try and drown it out, but it doesn't always work. Hmmm, maybe it's the fan? Lots to think about, my sleepy mind is begining to work again.

Heather
04-05-2005, 05:15 PM
No advice, just wanted to offer (((HUGS))) I've been there! :hug

JJsMom
04-05-2005, 05:45 PM
:hug I have to get my own little non-sleeper ready for bed here, so I have to go, but I want to write to you tomorrow about my similar struggles. My ds is almost 22 m.o and I have had a lot of trouble with him. I'll come back here tomorrow and write, in the meantime, hang in there! :hug

snlmama
04-05-2005, 06:38 PM
:hug My oldest had a lot of trouble sleeping. I know that feeling of trying everything everyone tells you and just feeling like :banghead I can't admit this many places, but he was older than 2 when he finally slept thru the night. First, before you start any plan, is there a way your dh can get up w/ him at night for a couple of nights and let you get some sleep so you can come at it well-rested? That always helped me. At worst he screams for dh, but is being comforted. At best he learns to fall asleep w/o the boob and gives you an edge up on handling at least the nursing problem. :shrug

A lot of things changed around the time that ds started sleeping thru, so thought I"d list them and see if any worked for you. My ds had a lot of allergy problems and we finally started solving them around that time. We took him off of milk, got his asthma under control and started him on preventive allergy meds. Around that time also, dh and I started taking turns putting him to bed. I often wonder if just learning different ways of going to sleep besides just being w/ me helped. :shrug My mom also bought him a big boy bed a month or so before he started sleeping thru and he was really excited about it and moved to a new room so we'd have his room for the new baby. Always wondered if the change in room had anything to do w/ it.

Anyway, :hug. I may write more later, but we're having a storm and dh says to turn off the computer. :(

ArmsOfLove
04-05-2005, 07:39 PM
Have you explored dairy allergy? That can keep a child awake :(

Also . . . just to clarify and sorry if you already said, I only skimmed the rest of the thread. . . what does he do when he's up? Is it just nursing? Can you nurse laying down and sleeping? Or is he wanting to get up and play? Do you do all of the nighttime parenting? Would dh be able to do some of it if nursing isn't involved?

Also, two other things that affect my children's sleeping is if they are too cold or hot and if they need a diaper change.

akmyilee
04-06-2005, 05:30 AM
:hug I understand what you are going though. :think I am afriad that this isn't what you want to hear but my 3 1/2 yrold still wakes up at night, he is alot better now that we are co-sleeping but he has never, at least not on a regular basis slept though the night. My mom said that I didn't either. I think that some people are simply light sleepers. What I think was happing with Kyle is that he would wake up not really knowing why and be kinda scared, he would cry and would have to fully woken up and brought back to reality before he was comfortable goign back to sleep. I know this sounds simplistic but it works for us. hth

JJsMom
04-06-2005, 01:10 PM
I'm not even sure where to start! I have been doing some things lately with my ds that has helped some and it seems like we are hopefully on our way to better sleep. I read NCSS and I did move his bedtime and started sticking to a eating a sleeping routine. Although, after I started, it was easier for me to notice his cues, so it's a very flexible schedule. I have also recently made the bedtime routine a lot less chaotic. He used to have time to play on the bed, but I have cut that out and put reading lots of books in its place. My dh reads to him, which works out great b/c he gets to spend time with Daddy and it is a calming time.
Now, these are things that I have started doing that works for us, so you have to decide if it's something that could have the opposite effect for you. I always carry him around for naptime and it took him under five min. to fall asleep, so I have started carrying him around before bed at night too. Before, he would get all hyper once we were in bed, but this kind of forces him to stay calm and go to sleep, that seems to be helping. I feed him before I start carrying him around. I also have him snuggle with me before I will nurse him during the night. I ask him to give me snuggles first and sometimes he will fall back asleep w/o nursing. If he keeps nursing and nursing and nursing, I'll tell him "One more time, then nigh-nigh". That helps. Try to make bedtime a happy thing, he gets all excited when I lay him down now, and before he would scream when I would lay him down.
Remember, a few months really changes things. I can communicate with my ds so much more than I could before and it is making a big difference. I am not really one to talk, I have been where you are so many times. I guess I have been feeling like we are turning a corner and I feel better about it. If you want to talk more about it, pm me! BTW, my ds gets up between 3-6 times per night and there was a time not too long ago that he was getting up at least every hour. I went crazy for a while b/c I was so sleep deprived. I was crying all the time, I would just want to leave, I would just break down. I still have meltdowns, but much less frequently! Wow, I can't believe I am giving advice on sleeping! :wow

AttachedMamma
04-06-2005, 02:47 PM
:hug to you. It is very hard, I know. I recall our DD waking 5 or more times a night at 2yo. She nursed back to sleep. In order to get some good shut-eye, I often had to go to bed very early. She would *not* take naps during the day, so I could never get that reprieve. By the time she hit about 3, it got a LOT better--woke up once, twice tops during the night. Then that dwindled and she just nursed to sleep and once or twice during the day. Before she turned 4, she was sleeping like a log at night. All of us in a king bed and it is heavenly.

I know there are people who think we're nuts having her in our bed at 4.5 yo, but when you've gone through colic and a few yrs of of exhausting nightwaking, you can't imagine kicking a sleeping little angel out of your bed. It's the most excellent time!

Good luck! :)

lmgeenw
04-07-2005, 11:18 AM
I was in the same situation with you and we tried EVERYTHING with my daughter. I read all of Dr. Sears articles and have a copy of NCSS. Nothing seemed to help. When my daughter was 2, I got pregnant and just couldn't handle it anymore. I was so tired during the day I was angry all the time and had no patience. I had no energy to play or go anywhere. Nursing dd was so painful that my nipples hurt like crazy for at least 1/2 an hour after I nursed her. After trying everything, we ended up just having to let my daughter cry, but I don't mean CIO. She was always with me or my husband, we rocked, walked, patted her back, listened to music. She started sleeping in a separate bed with my husband, instead of with me, which also prepared her more for the new baby. But dd would cry, sometimes a lot. There were nights when my husband had to step in and tell me not to nurse her because I was so exhausted and i knew she would just go to sleep if i gave in. It was really hard and it took about two weeks of these power struggles before she finally gave in (I think my daughter is a little more intense than most though). Some nights we didn't get any sleep, but it eventually paid off and she has been sleeping through the night for about a year and a half.
It was one of the hardest things I have had to do as a parent. There were some nights when I was in tears too, but even thought I felt like a horrible nighttime parent, it helped me be a better daytime parent and it made our home peaceful again.

nutmeggmama
04-09-2005, 12:07 AM
I agree that letting a child cry and be comforted by a parent is different that traditional CIO. I did lots of playing possum, where I lay on my tummy (with a towel :lol ) and let toddler crawl around on me and they usually wimpered a bit, and fell back asleep eventually. And remember to do a lot of discussing at a neutral time. When Mr Sun wakes up, its time to nurse.
I remember thinking I would never sleep again...Now noah is in his own room :wow and God blessed me with a baby who likes to sleep at night...for now. ;)
:grouphug
We've (most) all been there, and this too, shall pass.
But it sure is tough when you're there.
:hug

Katherine
04-10-2005, 07:36 AM
(((((Wuzzie))))

My 19-monther still wakes a lot at night to nurse, and my older son was... OLD.. before he started sleeping through. He still wakes at night a lot... he's just a light sleeper.

Has anyone mentioned teething? I know it's like an answer-for-all-things, but a lot of times they are experiencing pain before we realize they are cutting teeth... like a dull headache that never goes away... makes it hard to sleep. And they seem to teeth constantly for the first 2 - 2.5 years. By the time one pair is finally cutting through, the next is shifting around below the gums.

The last period my guy went through, I was up with him every hour for numerous nights, and was really starting to lose it and in terrible pain from the way he was nursing (hard and constantly)... then I realized what was happening, and when he'd wake up I would immediately rub something on his gums and the walk or rock or bounce with him for a bit until he got back to sleep (anything but nursing... OUCH) 15-20 min. of being up with him that way was a lot better than an hour or more of nursing each time he woke. :eek

Hope it gets better! :hug I know that zombie feeling...

wuzzie
04-10-2005, 06:08 PM
No I hadn't thought about a dairy allergy, or any type really. He is in general a much higher needs type baby anyways. When he wakes up at night he just crawls over to me and starts whiming for his "bees". Some nights I will just sleep with my shirt off so that he get just latch on, but that almost always keeps him up more. And yes we doo lay down to nurse, but once I am up it is very hard for me to get back to sleep. I have had insomnia all my life, (gee, I wonder if it's hereditary?) and the slight irritation of him nursinf on empty breasts just keeps me up. We have actually been doing a little better these last few nights. He has been sleeping from about 9 until 12-1 and then getting up again around 5. I can live with only twice a night. I'd rather have a good ten hour strech, but one step at a time right? Thank you all so much for all of your help. I really has helpes, at least with my perspective. :D

puffballpopple
04-11-2005, 07:57 AM
I know how ya feel. My dd is 3yo and doesnt sleep through. This article helped me feel a tad better: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepthrough.html

Amanda

nutmeggmama
04-11-2005, 09:29 AM
that was a really informative article

harmonyfarms
05-10-2005, 09:56 PM
Wuzzie, are our children related?

My ds is 19 mo and when he wakes up he just screams! Sometimes I think he is having a bad dream b/c I can see him getting sad while he sleeps. He doesn't want anyone but me. I've thought about night weaning but I just don't see how that will work. DS nurses a lot! During the day and at night. A drink is not a substitute and during the day rarely works.

He also has a speech delay (I am praying this is the ONLY thing that he has wrong) and I think the communication thing gets in the way sometimes.

Of course, 2 months ago I thought he would NEVER stay in the church nursery. Now he blows me kisses and walks in willingly. We didn't do anything, he just grew out of it.

I read Dr. Sears medical problems but none of them seemed 'toddler related'. I really hesitate to bring it up to the doc b/c I don't want to hear the cry it out lecture. KWIM?

annetted
05-12-2005, 08:46 PM
:hug Wuzzie

I feel for you and know what you are going through. Noah, our 3 1/2 year old still comes into our bed every night. Sometimes it is 2 or 3 visits a night. I found with both my boys that they were just not good at sleeping at night, and from what I've read here, I think that's pretty normal. I've always used a nighttime routine as a good way to get my little men to wind down after a busy day. We have a nice warm bath, into our PJs and then we have stories. After that the light goes out and I lay down with the youngest. I used to stay until he fell asleep but now that he is older I stay for about 5 minutes and then go outside. I will then come back in and check on them.

Of course it's much harder when you are still feeding. I still think that feeding is the quickest and easiest way of getting a child to go back to sleep. Are there any changes going on in your life or family that might be making him feel a bit unsettled?

Maybe he is ready to go into a big boy bed and that may stop some of the waking. I think someone else asked this but is he just waking to feed and then going back to sleep or does he wake and want to play? If he's waking and wanting to play then being in his own bed might be a good thing. I think you also said that he naps for a long time during the day. It might be a good idea to limit the length of the nap. I try to have my boys in bed by 7.00pm, 7.30pm at the latest, so I never let them nap past 2.30-3.00pm or otherwise they are just not sleepy at bedtime.

I'm not sure if any of that is helpful :shrug All I can say is that it will pass and you'll come out the other side and look back one day and laugh about it.

Earthylady
05-13-2005, 08:51 AM
I don't really have much to add. Just wanted to offer :hug . My dd with be 20 mo. in a couple of days and we too are up several times a night. As much as every hour! The longest stretch being 3 hours. The last couple of weeks have been worst as she's teething horribly. Her little mouth hurts so bad it's almost like she can't sleep if there's no nipple in there to help. She got three teeth in within a week and a half and I can't WAIT until that fourth one comes through. Then it's just the 2 year molars and we're done! :ptl I'm hoping after that we can work more on cutting back night nursings.

Only once has dd EVER slept for a solid 7 hours. And twice before that she slept 5 hours. We are no where near sleeping through the night yet. I often get frustrated and am tired a lot. I thought it was just because she was high needs. After all the pp's though, I'm thinking maybe it's just normal for now.

Which makes me feel better. So, thank you for posting this! I feel like I am in good company! :D

Mandy

Radosny Matka
05-13-2005, 11:36 AM
:hug Man, that is rough!

Cherish
05-13-2005, 06:12 PM
Night before last Lily was up twice, and last night while we were in a hotel room (actually a suite, she was with me and Grace was with Rob), she was up no less than FIVE times.

Lily will be 30 months old this month.