Not sure what I can do. . . . sort of an update

[Chris3jam]

OK, I'm not sure what to do. :think We go to a run-of-the-mill Baptist church. Fundamental, conservative, independent. It's a very good church, lots of good preaching, we're learning a lot, and being spiritually fed. :) Only one fly in the ointment -- spanking. :( We are taking a Sunday School class, a Parenting class. Well, next week, we will talk about spanking. He gave us an overview -- that spanking is indeed Biblical (Hebrews, Proverbs, etc.) , that everything non-spanking comes from worldly philosophy (which, as Christians, we must avoid as the plague, as we are to be in the world, and not of it), that spanking is done out of love, that we must train our children to "obey right away, completely, and with the right heart attitude", that God expects us to do that. The whole church has accepted that spanking is Christian, there's no question. The only "question" is to make sure it is done "in love", and not while angry. Many people are followers of Ezzo or Pearl (or off-shoots, like Gothard). These people obviously love their children and show it. And there are a very great many very well-behaved children there (mine excluded, unfortunately :(). There is a lot of preaching and teaching about the importance of unconditional love and just plain good parenting.

Anyway. I don't want to start a debate. Not only would it be totally futile (btdt with one person in the class), but we wouldn't have time. Add to that, I'm not exactly the best at communicating and expressing myself (obviously)! :O Not to mention that no one would read anything I could give to them. They would consider it "worldly", at best, unGodly for sure, and I'm sure people would be wondering about my own Christianity. Yes. I'm kinda chicken, too. :blush

Now, how do I get through this? And how do I keep from flying off the handle and backhanding dh when he pokes me in the ribs in agreement with Pastor (dh is very definitely punitive)? Should I just drag my feet and be late and miss it (my first thought)? I hate for my children to miss their SS class, though. They really enjoy it. I've been trying to formulate questions to any teaching I can think of him doing (not hard -- we've got a workbook, with fill-in-the-blank sheets). Can anyone help me? I mean, just a very well-placed question or two, just to plant a question in someone else's mind, even? :shrug Something maybe he didn't think of and can't really answer? Something short and sweet enough to get through? Most of these people are young couples, just embarking on this parenting journey! This is really bothering me! :(

[Katigre]

Given the overall church atmosphere and where you're at personally--i'd just skip the lesson b/c the conflict it would cause would not be beneficial in the long run.

[chelsea]

Hey!
I can totally relate! I asked a question yesterday entitled "Obedience" under this same "Unprepared" section, and was given a lot of great information (and I'm sure there is lots more coming!) :) Go there and see people's answers, it will give you some great ways of explaining the whole "obedience" aspect of it to your pastor. I recently took a parenting class at my church and one session was on vaccinations and "why they are important", etc. God in His great sense of humor allowed me and the other non-vax couple to miss that class (and neither of us knew it was coming until after.) Perhaps the fact that you know about this class and what it is about, God may be wanting you to share your beliefs with the pastor. I would do it before the class, so as not to cause a confrontational situation when the class is going. Maybe give the pastor some of your own research and ask if he would mind if you shared your beliefs at the class. If he is firm in his own opinion then he should welcome some discussion. Let him know that this is a strong conviction for you and if you are not able to share your beliefs, you will have to skip that class. Do a lot of praying, God always has a way of bringing the info and strength to us when we need it. Let us know what happens, I'll be praying for you!

[MarynMunchkins]

Personally, I'd ask them to explain how they reconcile receiving grace from God with punishing our children. I'd specifically talk about the parable of the unforgiving servant while posing your question.

It won't really speak against spanking, per se, but it might get a few people thinking. :think

:hug It's hard...:(

[Chris3jam]

Given the overall church atmosphere and where you're at personally--i'd just skip the lesson b/c the conflict it would cause would not be beneficial in the long run.


After thinking about it, that sounds like what I'll have to do. Now, I have to figure out how to do it! Also, I have decided to talk to a member of the pastoral staff about my experiences, and about how I think spanking is not Biblical. He's very nice, and I think he will at least listen, especially if I just stick to what the Bible says, and not my "feelings". It might not change anything, but at least I will have asked some very hard, hopefully intelligent questions. Anybody up for helping me?

[Chris3jam]

I said it much better than I am typing it now....I can go look up my notes that I practiced with and post them here if you would like.

That would be great (if you really wouldn't mind!)! :D I'm not exactly the most articulate of people. I was thinking about bringing up my past experiences (with the sheep), and how I started questioning this whole "spanking" thing.

[ArmsOfLove]

((((((hugs)))))))

If you choose to go I have 3 thoughts:

1) Do they realize that "spankings should be done in love not in anger" was first used as the tag line for a book at the turn of the last century teaching spankings between marriage partners?

2) Can you see their exegesis (in depth studies of the passages in question starting with the words and working out to the context) ?

3) Can they show you *in Scripture* where God teaches us the *right way* to spank?

[chelsea]

One of the main points that I brought up in regards to the whole "spanking is biblical/not spanking is worldly" is that we have absolutely no recorded instances of an adult spanking a child in the bible at all.



Good point Rene! I do realize that the Bible doesn't list every single action and with the "unmentioned actions" we have to use our own judgement, but you would think that if spanking is Biblical and with child-rearing being of such great importance, there would be at least one such "spanking" incident mentioned!

[Chris3jam]

Well, I did it. I copped out. I tried to orchestrate us getting there late. We were. . . . a little. But, then I just sat down in the lobby, saying I just didn't want to go in there so late. I just couldn't face it. I know. I'm a bad, devious creature (actually, just gut-less -- like that's any better). I DID ask dh some pointed questions Saturday night when he made the statement "So, are you going to embarrass me tomorrow?". (He had no answers, btw. ;)). I asked him "Please show me where in Scripture it instructs us on HOW to spank? If it were THAT important that we physically punish our children in this way, I would think that there would be some clear instructions. There are clear instructions on just about everything else that is vitally important, in the Bible. Where is the one on spanking methodology?" I also asked him to show me HIS studies in this area. Considering he doesn't even read his Bible, I kind of cheated on that one! ;) And, OT here, my heart just broke into teeny, tiny pieces when I heard my dd playing quietly by herself today. She was using some statements that dh uses in his "disciplining" of the children. Like, "just shut up" and things like that. In her pretend play. With Legos. Sniff, SOB! :cry :bheart

[erinee]

Do they realize that "spankings should be done in love not in anger" was first used as the tag line for a book at the turn of the last century teaching spankings between marriage partners?



:eek

:pray that someday the thought of parents spanking children will be just as unpalatable to people as husbands spanking wives!

[Chris3jam]

OK -- accidentally/deliberately "missed" ( :dance ) the second installment of the "spanking" lessons. And it about made me cry, though, that almost all of the people in that class came up to us and told us that we were missing some excellent teaching. :cry "We're talking about spanking. . . it's REALLY good!" :cry It really does something to my stomach to hear people talk about physically hitting their children and calling it "really good". Can you BELIEVE I used to be one of them?!? I feel so, so sorry for them!!