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MarynMunchkins
04-03-2005, 01:05 PM
My church is selling "Shepherding a Child's Heart". :banghead Right next to Tim Kimmel's "Grace-Based Parenting". :rolleyes :doh Talk about confused!

Anyway, I want to write a letter to the pastor asking him to remove it from the shelves. I've never read it all the way through, and I won't have time before we move. Could someone help me write an intelligent letter against it?

Plus, his message this morning was about kindness. I'd like to ask him how he reconciles loving your enemies with his position on spanking and punishing children. :td

Katherine
04-03-2005, 07:50 PM
Well, you might want to let him know that they are selling books containing diametrically opposed parenting advice, and ask him to clarify just exactly what the church's position is on things like grace, mercy, gentleness, setting boundaries, modeling Christ for our children, etc. :/

I'll look through my copy.. it's been a while... and see if I can find anything that might help. It might take me a day or two to get around to it. Is that too long? :shrug

MarynMunchkins
04-03-2005, 09:22 PM
That's a great idea! :tu Hopefully, that will involve less debating the book, since I haven't actually read it. ;) (And have no intentions to any time soon!)

Thanks! :hug

LikeADimMirror
04-04-2005, 02:29 PM
I haven't read Ted Tripp's book, although my pastor advocates it. Besides the spanking, what is the difference in parenting styles between the 2 books?

MarynMunchkins
04-04-2005, 02:58 PM
From what I've heard/read from the excerpt on Amazon, Tedd Tripp assumes that we can understand know our children's hearts and correct the problem causing the inappropariate behavior. It's not only punitive, it's unBiblical to assume that we can know our children's heart.

Jeremiah 17:9 says we can't even know ours. How dare we presume to know the heart of our children? :wow

Tim Kimmel's book is based on the principle that we are all sinners under grace, and that as Christian parents, we will extend the same grace we have received to our children.

As far as understand it, anyway...:)

LikeADimMirror
04-04-2005, 05:06 PM
Jeremiah 17:9 says we can't even know ours. How dare we presume to know the heart of our children?

I agree!

greenemama
04-04-2005, 10:07 PM
ted tripp not only advocates spanking, but he's one of the guys who promotes the spanking of babies (something about how an infant protesting a diaper change is showing rebellion :eek :rolleyes), even under 18 mos., which, correct me if i'm wrong, is the age the dobson crowd says spanking should begin. i think he's probably a step above pearl in this regard. the idea is that the baby will not need spankings after age two or three because he will be conditioned to "obey" and will be able to control himself because of the spankings he's had while still a baby.

first off, disciplining a child in a punitive way before a child is even a year old (!) shows a real lack of understanding from a child development standpoint. it is ridiculous, really. for one thing, the ability to reason is not fully biologically developed until a child is around 8 or 9 years old. without the ability to reason, is the child really able to control himself (stop himself etc.)? outside controls are needed. whether it's being "helped" to deal with big emotions (as with GBD) or through fear, whether that's fear of a time out or a spanking, the motivator is not an internal control, it's an outside control.

and doesn't tripp approach the parenting of children 0-5 with the military idea that the primary thing for kids that age to understand is that he is an "individual under authority"? and the theology behind the "give the child a law he can keep" idea is bad. why teach kids that there is a law that we can keep when we are all lawbreakers and cannot keep the law on our own? there is zero grace in that idea. making strict rules that must be followed and calling this a law that you *can* keep since you can't keep God's law is just silly and isn't teaching anything of grace.

the spanking of babies is would be a great point to bring up. many parents may spank their two or three year old, but not their 7 month old. approaching it from that angle might be a good idea. babies don't understand cause and effect, first of all. like they're really internalizing that kind of approach, you know? ugh.
if the rod verses are taken literally they can only be referring to an adult, not a child, or a small child, let alone a baby! have you read clay clarkson's heartfelt discipline? he takes the verses literally, as opposed to crystals figurative take. so if you're dealing with someone who takes them to mean a literal rod and a literal beating, you could point out how the equation breaks down if it's not talking about what the verses mean when they are talking about a "child." :)

and i think that you might also mention something about how tripp's book is all about employing a one size fits all system. not only does that not take family and individual differences into consideration, but it opens the door for those who follow the "system" completely to feel pride in their "results" and to judge those who do not fit into the equation or who do not choose to parent in that way. in the end, parenting decisions are up to individual families. one way will not work for everyone. tripp's (and ezzo, pearl, etc.) system shuts people out who either cannot or choose not to fit into that family picture. i get this vibe from my pastor when he preaches and mentions anything about parenting. "we have trained our children xyz" as though *you* are wrong if you have not chosen to train your children in that manner. he preached on the importance of children always saying yes sir an yes maam, etc. personally i'm insulted if i'm ma'amed and will tell his children not to ma'am me if the do so. that kind of rigid training is controlling, not only the children under those parents, but all other people who are in contact with them! ugh.

:O long post. :O

kris10s
04-04-2005, 10:29 PM
Good thoughts, Mollie.

Also, Tripp advocates spanking a child repeatedly if they don't seem "sweet" enough after a spanking.

greenemama
04-04-2005, 10:31 PM
thanks, kristen. :)

and i forgot about the sweetness thing. http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/obscene/eck16.gif

MarynMunchkins
04-05-2005, 08:20 AM
Yep. :( This moron needs to be pulled from the church's shelves...:(

MarynMunchkins
04-06-2005, 07:47 AM
:banghead :banghead :banghead

So I sent my pastor an email, asking him to clarify the church's position, and he told me to talk to someone else since he wasn't familiar with the books. :/

How you can sell them at your church if you haven't read them? :shrug

Katherine
04-06-2005, 09:11 AM
Being unfamiliar with the books shouldn't prevent him from clarifying the church's position on parenting and discipline. :rolleyes

What a wimp. :doh (oops.. did I say that out loud?)

Did he redirect you to any specific person? If not, that might work in your favor... you might could choose someone who will tend to be more sympathetic to what you are trying to say, who is not already a devotee of the Tripp camp, or who tends to take the safe route when a choice is offered. (Is that manipulative... ? :shifty) Who manages the church library or bookstore?

Do you need quotes or specific references from the book?

grandmama
04-13-2005, 07:13 AM
All of this discussion has inspired me to donate some good books to our church library......

kris10s
04-13-2005, 07:38 AM
That is a really good idea, Grandmama!