Refusing to leave the car at uncle's house

[ozmummy]

This happened a few months ago, and I kept meaning to post but kept forgetting.

My (then 4y 8 mo) ds is a very reserved, slow to warm up personality. (Like his mum and dad) I have been kind of following his lead with it up till now, but I am aware that being "shy" can end up as essentially selfish, self-protective behaviour, and I don't really want to see him go down that path, but am not sure how far to push/let things go. Anyway let me tell you about this situation, and please comment/suggest (gently, I'm a bit fragile atm, but you guys *are *gentle* aren't you...)

We were visting my BIL very quickly (say 30min drop in visit,) This BIL has a pretty boisterous personality, and not very empathetic, so has had real trouble connecting with ds, and I think he (BIL) regards ds as a bit of a freak...sad really.
We pulled up and ds, Lok, was like "I'm not going in" . I said it would be nic eif he did, that Henry&Kylie would really like to see him etc, but he refused, and was getting a bit upset. So I said, we're all going in, and you can come in or stay in the car. (This was a safe option for us in that location and on that day, the car doors were wide open..., I won't go into the details..)

So we all went in, and I kept checking him through the window...When we were offered a drink, I went out to him, and offered him one, saying he would need to come inside to have it, because it would be rude to have it in the car.

I wasn't really comfortable with his choice, but I knew that if I had *made* him come in, it would be kicking and screaming, and I wasn't up to that ...I guess that means that I was being permissive? I don't know

I think that next time, I would warn him that we were going there, and that he would be coming inside either by himself, or helped in (not as a punishment, but as a support if he felt he needed it). I have been talking with him about different things we do hurting people's hearts, so would include this in the discussion. But what would I do if he point blank refuses again? This is a situation that will likely occur now and then, or something similar anyway. He's 5 now.

And I later found out that BIL & partner thought it was really rude and were offended...I kind of expected that, but of course this was all behind our back, and I really can't be bothered to confront them...it's not worth it as they are on *such* a different wavelength. He just has absolutely NO capacity to put himself in another's shoes, so I just don't see the point.

[icesmom3]

A question? Is this the only relative that he refuses to go in their house?

[ArmsOfLove]

that was one question I had.

Also, your ds is not "shy" as in a character flaw, he sounds "introverted" as in how God made him. He won't need to become self-protective if you are actively protecting him. I've heard very punitive supportive people and teachers say that they don't worry about "shy" until closer to 10.

Rather than working so much with him about hurting other people's feelings (which can make him feel responsible for their feelings which he is not) I would let him know that certain things hurt people's feelings--just to inform him. Eventually he'll decide what to do with that--or ask you about it. I would also work more on standing between him and bil as a defender. "He's not feel social today. He's gonna wait in the car." If you present a united front against the outside world then he will feel safer and others will not direct any issues they have with it against him.

I would guess that you were not allowed to be shy or introverted, or that it was expressed to you how negative this was? By helping him *be* introverted and okay with that you might find some healing for yourself and some acceptance of yourself in this area.

You would probably benefit a lot from Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's "Raising Your Spirited Child". There's a great section in there on introvert/extrovert.

[ozmummy]

A question? Is this the only relative that he refuses to go in their house?


No, he's OK with people that we see regularly, anyone that we would see less than once a month? or so, this kind of thing will happen...I think it's particularly difficult for Lok with BIL because BIL is very loud and in your face straight away, which Lok doesn't like.




Rather than working so much with him about hurting other people's feelings (which can make him feel responsible for their feelings which he is not) I would let him know that certain things hurt people's feelings--just to inform him. Eventually he'll decide what to do with that--or ask you about it. I would also work more on standing between him and bil as a defender. "He's not feel social today. He's gonna wait in the car." If you present a united front against the outside world then he will feel safer and others will not direct any issues they have with it against him.

I would guess that you were not allowed to be shy or introverted, or that it was expressed to you how negative this was? By helping him *be* introverted and okay with that you might find some healing for yourself and some acceptance of yourself in this area.



I thnk maybe the opposite, we *were* allowed to be shy/introverted. My mum is a huge introvert, my parents didn't take us visiting any friends, we only saw extended family at Christmas. I think it really affected me, that my "people skills" are really limited because I was never taught anything about relating to people. It has been something I have had to learn myself as an adult, and it has been really hard. I have seen this lack of parental guidance and help really badly affect my younger brother, who didn't really relate to the world outside the family home until past 20. And I have seen the same thing happen in a friend's family with their son not even able to catch a bus until age 18. So I guess that's more where my mind is going.....I don't want him to go down that path, and I want to help him be able to cope with being the way he is, but still able to relate to the world...

We pretty much have defended him to BIL in many different situations so far, eg that he doesn't feel like being around people, BIL would never say anything to our face about it...and Lok is not aware of that. I was just more wondering if there comes a time to be more proactive in encouraging interaction KWIM. I think I have gone a bit to the permissive side in my journey to GBD, and I didn't want to be doing that here....

And about hurting people's feelings, I haven't made a huge deal about it, just kind of letting him know that things we do can affect people that way....

[CelticJourney]

Is it possible to talk to bil about the fact that he scares the daylights out of the kid and you need to affirm his feelings. It sounds like you are around this guy because you have to be and might choose not to be otherwise. I give the kids credit for knowing his boundries!!

Had I been hosting, I would have gone to the car with you and offered the child a drink and re-stated my invitation to come in, but of course I am child-focused and not in-your-face to begin with, so.....

[ArmsOfLove]

my parents didn't take us visiting any friends, we only saw extended family at Christmas. I think it really affected me, that my "people skills" are really limited because I was never taught anything about relating to people. It has been something I have had to learn myself as an adult, and it has been really hard. I have seen this lack of parental guidance and help really badly affect my younger brother, who didn't really relate to the world outside the family home until past 20. I guess I would suggest that the most important way to teach social skills is by modelling them. Sounds like you didn't get exposed to seeing your parents socialize and didn't get to learn from them. As I said, even the punitive people I've heard talk about this have said to protect the child until closer to age 10 and then work with them about social skills. In the meantime in order to get him exposed more to your modelling you might try assuring him he doesn't have to speak or some other compromise. Of course, you did say that he is fine around people you're around often so for now that might be enough. Is he fine with those people you see more often?

[ozmummy]

Is he fine with those people you see more often?


Yes, the more often we see them, the more comfortable he is. He might not talk straight away, but will gradually come out of his shell...IF they talk about garbage trucks, they've got him straight away! :lol


. As I said, even the punitive people I've heard talk about this have said to protect the child until closer to age 10 and then work with them about social skills.


I guess this is the kind of reassurance I'm after...I felt I was slipping into permissive mode because I wasn't sure if I was just letting him do what he wanted because I couldn't face his reaction...


In the meantime in order to get him exposed more to your modelling you might try assuring him he doesn't have to speak or some other compromise.


We did reassure him with that...but he stil refused to come in. So you're thinking that seeing these skills modelled in situations where he is comfortable is what is needed, and not to worry about those times where he feels he can't get out of the car?


Is it possible to talk to bil about the fact that he scares the daylights out of the kid and you need to affirm his feelings. It sounds like you are around this guy because you have to be and might choose not to be otherwise. I give the kids credit for knowing his boundries!!

Had I been hosting, I would have gone to the car with you and offered the child a drink and re-stated my invitation to come in, but of course I am child-focused and not in-your-face to begin with, so.....




BIL is a nice enough guy, it's quite strange really. He's really friendly and generous, but just LOUD. And really just *can't* understand another's point of view. He was devastated when a Christmas present he'd bought for my dh wasn't LOVED in the same way that he (BIL) LOVED it - you know he just *really* thought that of course dh would LOVE it, because he (BIL) did...KWIM. REally trying but just *can't* do it. So I don't think explaining it would help, and would probably make BIL more uncomfortable around Lok.

Funny you say that about hosting, and having that child-focussed attitude...my other BIL figured out "give me 5", non verbal, quick... and uses that as a greeting and goodbye, and Lok does it every time.. and also the "talk to him about garbage trucks" trick to get him out of his shell. Funny how that different attitude really makes a difference. ;)

Actually thanks for that, because you have helped me see all the situations when Lok is showing what he is learning, and doing the appropriate things in relating to people... :)