A sad episode at church

[mom2_AthruZ]

Last night I took Emily and Alyssa to see a passion play at our church. Now I know our church is punitive b/c pastor has used the statistic that Dr. Spocks son commited suicide b/c he didn't spank him. :banghead :rolleyes :wow. Anyway, Emily became fussy so we went out and towards the end of the play I walked back toward the nursery. I heard a child crying for his mom and thought he was in the room with the other kids. It turned out he was in a completely different room by himself where he couldn't see anyone. :eek He was 3yo

They said he had hit another child and refused to apologize so they sought the advice of the youth pastor who is apparently a family friend and he told them to do what they had done. I said oh my he probably just needs to be cuddled and comforted. I wish I had read the "you hit you sit thread" because I could have offered more beyond the cuddling etc.

After my comment the adult in the nursery askd me if Emily was my first. No, she's my third. Then she asks if I had a strong willed child??!!! :banghead Like if I didn't I couldn't possibly understand. I said we had a spirited child and she liked that term. She asked me how we handled our dd and I explained ala all my GBD tools. :)

The teenage girl who was there kept assuring me that they wouldn't do this with just anyones child. I explained(nicely) that I couldn't do that to a child in my care even if leadership had said it was ok. Well, I couldn't do it now. Acouple of years ago before we learned about grace based parenting I would have thought they were doing the right thing. :doh

While the teen and I were talking the other lady, who really did seem nice, just caught in a bad spot, went to the little boy and picked him up. I know they felt he needed to make ammends but he wasn't ready to and I think he needed other options beyond saying sorry. Like giving a hug, or doing something for the child he hit.

It just bothered me that someone in leadership had suggested the isolation. All during the conversation the teen kept saying he knew what he had done and what he needed to do to rejoin the group.

I was bothered by that all night. :cry :cry :cry I wish I had been better with words and other options. I guess I was just :eek to actually see what was going on. The poor kid probably fell asleep on the way home b/c he had cried so hard. :bheart

[TulipMama]

*hug*

I'm so thankful you were there to minister to that toddler, the teenager, and the other mama.

Hard sometimes, isn't it?

[MarynMunchkins]

:wow That's really sad...:(

I love it how people who spank automatically assume you have quiet, cooperative kids when you mention that you don't spank. :rolleyes Obviously, they've never met my kids. ;)

You know what I find the saddest about that? The teen is the one who recognized that what they were doing to the toddler wasn't right, and she wanted to fix it. And the adults and leadership in her life will quelch that by feeding her more and more punitive measures, and she will grow to think it is normal. :mad It's really heartbreaking...

[Katherine]

All during the conversation the teen kept saying he knew what he had done and what he needed to do to rejoin the group.

oh.. [scratching head] I got the opposite impression.. that the teen was defending what they were doing and assuming the little boy was just being stubborn. That made me really sad. She's already got those ideas firmly ingrained in her thinking and is getting lots of practice being authoritarian and punitive with other people's kids.

Wonder if they told the parents, and how the parents reacted. I would be livid if I knew someone had done that to my child!

I'm so glad you were there, too, and had the opportunity to offer your perspective. Who knows what affect that may have on the people who were observing. {hugs}

[my emoticons aren't displaying!]

[mom2_AthruZ]

[Wonder if they told the parents, and how the parents reacted. I would be livid if I knew someone had done that to my child!



I got the impression that the parents wouldn't have had a problem with it. :wow They apparently have been seeking guidence from church leadership on how to handle him.

And yes, the teen was defending what they were doing,but that they wouldn't do it to just any child.

[Miss Priss]

So very sad. :(

[JessicaTX]

Now I know our church is punitive b/c pastor has used the statistic that Dr. Spocks son commited suicide b/c he didn't spank him.

I snopesed that =)
http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/drspock.htm

It isn't true. Dr. Spock had two sons, Michael and John. Michael's son, Peter, commited suicide. It goes on to say that a psychologist at the opposite end of the spectrum, who advocated never kissing or hugging your children, had a son that commited suicide.

You might want to point out to your pastor the lie that he has been spreading from the pulpit.

[mom2threePKs]

You might want to point out to your pastor the lie that he has been spreading from the pulpit.



Please please please hold him accountable for what he says from the pulpit!!!!!It drives me insane to hear pastors quoting baloney interent stuff when it is relatively easy to fact check.



I was bothered by that all night. :cry :cry :cry I wish I had been better with words and other options. I guess I was just :eek to actually see what was going on. The poor kid probably fell asleep on the way home b/c he had cried so hard. :bheart


I bet you did more for helping them think outside of their punative boxes than you think you did! It is a huge paradigm shift for many and all it takes is a few nudges to get people thinking about things in a different way. I'm glad you were there and even though he doesn't know it, so was that little boy!

Magan

[ArmsOfLove]

that poor little boy. To be locked alone in a room with no one there? I wonder if that is illegal in a nursery setting???

Good for you for standing up for that lilttle boy and giving them other ideas.

I was just thinking today about how before I had children I always heard the, "Well, just wait until you have children. It won't work when you have children 24/7. Sometimes you just have to _____." Then I got, "You must be lucky and have an easy child." :lol NOPE! I just learn other tools. Now when I get, "You must just have one," I can :laughtears

[UltraMother]

I was just thinking today about how before I had children I always heard the, "Well, just wait until you have children. It won't work when you have children 24/7. Sometimes you just have to _____." Then I got, "You must be lucky and have an easy child."

That is one of my most hated phrases in parenting. "Sometimes you just have to..." :mad

[Mama Bird]

Oh, that is something that just gripes me. I hate it when people insist on a verbal apology. My children can't always say they are sorry. I don't want them to lie! What is DS isn't really sorry that he hit DS? I teach him to kiss the owie and give her (or she, him...) a hug, then ask for forgiveness when they are ready.

Why do people teach their children to lie????? :banghead

[tiglet]

Eep!

I'm pretty certain that it would be illegal to treat a kid like that in a day-care! And I expect church to be a place where people are treated better than in the secular world. Kids included.

[Quietspirit]

That poor little boy. :cry

And I am truly horrified that someone in leadership (particularly YOUTH leadership) thought this was a good idea. :eek :(

[mom2_AthruZ]

that poor little boy. To be locked alone in a room with no one there? I wonder if that is illegal in a nursery setting???



I just wanted to say that he wasn't locked in the other room, but he was completely seperate. :cry The workers had to actually step out of their door and into the hallway to see him. Still very sad and we like this church!! Now I find myself wondering and questioning our being there. I will be praying a lot about this. :pray

author=mom2threePKs link=topic=2250.msg21959#msg21959 date=1112059849]

Please please please hold him accountable for what he says from the pulpit!!!!!It drives me insane to hear pastors quoting baloney interent stuff when it is relatively easy to fact check.



I am going to call the church to see if they can locate that particular sermon. I want to hear it again just to cover my bases. But I remember it well because I had been wondering if our pastor was punitive minded and when i heard that I knew. :hissyfit When I get to hear it again I will then try to work up enough courage to point it out to him.( where is the big chicken emoticon??)

[bliss]

just an aside - I was always forced to say I was sorry as a child and now as an adult I apologize for everything and cannot rationally see when problems are not my fault. I assume guilt for every bad thing that happens surrounding me. It is an automatic knee-jerk reaction whenever anyone says anything has gone wrong that I might have had anything to do with -"I'm sorry". Not a healthy pattern, kids. :rolleyes