fanasty world of punitive parenting

[milkmommy]

Another post here got me thinking again. One that meantined threating spankings with wodden spoons would be "enough" to get them to obey and how one parent woke up a toddlerto punish them after hearing about a "problem". MAkes me wonder how many of these parents believe their chldren are really so well behaved. I know when I taught daycare I learned very quickly who the very punitive parents were and short of a really truly serios case I simpily didn't report on the "problems" seemed dumb to say well she shoved little suzie at 11am this morning we seperated them ans had her sit beside me for a few mintues to calm down other than that she was an angle just to see the parent tell the child (who'd other wised behaved for 9 hours) your getting a spanking when we get home. :rolleyes :eek :cry. SO they proudly went around bragging how they never hear of a single BAD thing... :rolleyes. The non punitve I could tell the good the bad the okay and the exciting. All were addressed openily and if there was a problem I got . How as a parent can I help? These children were the best behaved. Not the overly punistive ones. (or the my child can do no wrong ones).

Deanna

[greenemama]

interesting, yes. i prefer to promote the fantasy that my children are nothing but angels, particularly to my inlaws and to people i know to be punitive at church. never say a negative thing about anything. never say that i'm exhausted from sleeping with all of these people at night. :) never say that there are days i want to run screaming from the house. because i want to honor my kids with allowing them to be kids without people thinking about how "bad" they are. as dh says, we made the choice to parent this way -- don't complain about it! :)

[APMamaX4]

Interesting, and I agree. That's what I always wondered about the idea of keeping your child within arms reach at all times. It would seem to me that if your child is so well behaved, why must they be kept w/in arms reach at all times?? Seems like they are only "obeying" because mom is an arm's reach away..... but obviously the second they are out of mom's reach (or she has her back turned), all bets are off (otherwise, they wouldn't need to keep them within arms reach,right?) Or, there are daycare/nursery care workers who, like yourself, would refrain from telling everything, to try to spare the child from being punished 9hrs later...but really the child ISNT as well behaved as the parents like to think...

[MarynMunchkins]

Well, spanking is supposed to be Biblical, right. :rolleyes If you're spanking and still have problems with your children, than it's not just an issue with your children. It's a problem with you as a parent, your philsophy, your God (because after all, he PROMISES that spanking will work) :/, and your children.

So once you admit that spanking isn't really working, even if it's only for one thing, you admit that your belief about it must be wrong. :spit And that's a hard thing to admit...

[TulipMama]

If you're spanking and still have problems with your children, than it's not just an issue with your children. It's a problem with you as a parent,

Yep, not being "consistent" enough. Better spank more. *eyeball roll*

Okay. I'm meandering off topic. *blush*


To be honest, I think in punitive homes there are the range of behaviours that are in gbd homes. Some kids will be little angels, just because they naturally are. Others will be constantly testing the boundaries. Some will "obey" out of fear. Some will obey out of wanting to please the authorities in their life. Some will break all the rules as soon as they are out of sight of the authorities.

I've seen these things in a range of families. (Yep, even the families who say they never have problems.) I think that's one of the reasons my heart has really been drawn to GCM (and keeps being affirmed by the older mothers in my life.) It's not about getting our kids to "behave." It's about building a relationship, teaching them how to live, helping them learn what being in relationship with God is. Lots of love and lots of prayer and lots of day-in-day-out living together. . .

[callasandra]

What is so sad with parents who are taught that if it doesn't work "It's a problem with you as a parent, your philsophy, your God" is the unneccessary guilt that is placed on them. They feel like if they were spanking properly their children would respond. They look at it as their fault, not really examining what they are doing and why it is not working.

Callasandra

[Katherine]

It's all about the reaction... the external control exerted by parents.

If they are truly controlling and goal-oriented they tend to punish more and harder, more and harder, more and harder.. until the child complies (at least when they're looking) :bheart

If they are more worried about just doing *something* (the right thing? :eek), or maintaining the illusion of parental control either for themselves or other people, they are more apt to just keep offereing up the same reaction with no end in sight. They comfort themselves with the thought that "at least they DID something about it" and that they "taught their child a lesson." :( The compliant kids usually yield and the non-compliant kids get more out of control in a situation like that.

It's like a monkey trap. The monkey can't get away b/c he won't let go of the treat, and parents can't break out of this vicious cycle b/c they won't let go of spanking/punishing. :banghead

[4blessings]

That's what I always wondered about the idea of keeping your child within arms reach at all times. It would seem to me that if your child is so well behaved, why must they be kept w/in arms reach at all times??

I wonder about that, too. I don't get that concept at all. If the swatting, ambushing, serious spankings, etc. are really working, shouldn't the children behave at least most of the time, not just when they're chained to mom?

I read something off of the No Greater Joy site that said, Many people are using a section of ¼ inch plumber’s supply line as a spanking instrument. It will fit in your purse or hang around you neck. You can buy them for under $1.00 at Home Depot or any hardware store. They come cheaper by the dozen and can be widely distributed in every room and vehicle. Just the high profile of their accessibility keeps the kids in line.

The high profile accesibility? If spanking your kids is so effective, why the need to threaten them with plumber's tubing in every room? The same goes for moms who carry "rods" in every purse, diaper bag, glove compartment, etc.

Another thing I notice with punitive parenting is that many of the discipline problems the parents talk about, and things they need to spank for, are problems I've never had with a child. I'm not saying my children are perfect by any means. Heaven knows they're not. But sometimes I read about some of the things these children do and I go :wow. I wonder if that highly punitive parenting creates a different, more antagonistic kind of relationship b/t parent and child and causes those problems.

I had a long talk with a friend about why we don't spank. She would say something like, "Well, if you don't spank, then what would you do if your 9 y/o hit you?" Um, I don't know b/c I've had two 9 y/o so far and I've never had one that would even think about hitting me. I've never had a child over 2 try to hit me.

I'm rambling now. Sorry!

[ArmsOfLove]

4blessings, that is such a true observation for my life too. Sometimes it's hard for me to come up with ideas for situations because I am shocked at what some children out there are doing :( I don't blame the parent--I really don't. To some extent I do blame certain parenting teachings because they perpetuate a variety of myths and outright lies. This is one reason I say that parents shouldn't be judged by their children's behavior, but by their reaction to it. Too often what starts out as normal toddler behavior is either exacerbated or shoved down to resurface later by overly punitive reactions to it :(

[MarynMunchkins]

You know, that's interesting...:think We were very punitive with Doug :(, and we had a lot of problems with his screaming and hitting. It wasn't until we made the transition to GBD and I spent a lot of time teaching him how to be gentle and express his emotions in an acceptable manner even when he is angry that the behavior went away. (Well, we're still dealing with the screaming, but it's a LOT better!) :D

I do think that by spanking him for screaming or hitting we made things worse. Colin very rarely hits, and he's prime age for that. Hmm...:think

[TulipMama]

But sometimes I read about some of the things these children do and I go wow. I wonder if that highly punitive parenting creates a different, more antagonistic kind of relationship b/t parent and child and causes those problems.

This was my experience. *sad sigh*

I only see it more now, the further I get away from the old, punitive ways of thinking. I *created* problems. I loved my little ones so, so dearly, but really was in an antagonistic relationship with them.

[Katherine]

We definitely created an "enemy" dynamic with my first son. Even though we stopped punitive parenting pretty early and did a lot of other AP stuff while he was a baby, we did a lot of damage in a year and a half. And we still do damage when we slide back into punitive ways. Dh still does a lot of stuff that makes me :hissyfit on the inside, but I don't want to nag him constantly with "don't do that... don't do that either... " comments when he's at least trying to handle the kids. :shrug So I pick and choose when to say something and we muddle through as best we can. :/

The hardest thing for me is when I feel like we've made such progress and then one or two bad days just seem to bring all that fear and rage and combativeness back to the surface in ds. It breaks my heart to think I had a part in creating that. :bheart BUT I'm filled with gratitude that God showed us another way so we didn't have to continue down that road. :heart and I'm thankful for my strong-willed older son who pushed us beyond the limits of what punitive parenting can accomplish.... his siblings won't have to go through what he did. :hearts