Yeah...THATS something to brag about!

[APMamaX4]

Why is it that some people feel the need to brag about what their *little babies* are capable of doing? On another board that I was reading, people were boasting about how their babies-we're talking 6-9 months here, so under age 1- are so well trained that they stop crying on command, come to them on command, and don't touch things on command. Bragging at how they get looks of awe when they tell their 6 month olds to not touch or whatever, and the baby "obeys". :rolleyes The thing is...what the people (the observers) *dont* know is HOW these people got their babies to "obey" so well (a la Pearl, btw). So here is a stranger looking at them and saying "Wow! That's great!"...but what they don't know is all the Pearlesque parenting those poor babies had to undergo to GET to that point.

You know, a couple wks ago dh was looking at our youngest and said he can't believe ppl let babies that young cry themselves to sleep. Or, any age, but esp such little babies. I said you think that's bad?? There are ppl who do the cio stuff at 2-3 WEEKS of age! And some, even DAYS old babies. He was in :eek :eek :eek and said that should be considered child abuse. (Referring to those who have been informed that that's not a good thing, yet still continue to do it b/c it's so "convenient" ( think Ezzo) to do so).

[MarynMunchkins]

You know, I think a lot of this has to do with inexperienced parents who are excited to see their kids "doing" stuff. I know that sleeping through the night and doing what I said was a much bigger deal when Doug was younger than with Colin. I realize that they do grow up and it goes FAST! :wow I don't have to worry about it. :)

That, or you've got a mom with a lot of kids who feels like she needs to have "control" and "order" so she can function. :rolleyes

[APMamaX4]

You know, I think a lot of this has to do with inexperienced parents who are excited to see their kids "doing" stuff. I know that sleeping through the night and doing what I said was a much bigger deal when Doug was younger than with Colin. I realize that they do grow up and it goes FAST! :wow I don't have to worry about it. :)

That, or you've got a mom with a lot of kids who feels like she needs to have "control" and "order" so she can function. :rolleyes


Yep, I totally agree. It's usually either the new moms who have no idea that this stuff (not sleeping through the night, having to rearrange your life around your baby, having your former routine get messed up, etc.) is all *normal stuff.* And, yes, the tantrums, and fits are also NORMAL behavior. The thing is (and this is where Pearl parenting kicks in) no one actually LIKES a tantrum. No parent enjoys them! So these people come swooning in to say "Hey, listen to what I have to say! Here's a way to get no more tantrums, a child who will sit on your lap during 2hr church services and not make a peep, and a child you can take anywhere with you because you have him trained to stay put on a blanket!" Well, what new parent wouldn't enjoy *that*, y'know? So new parents jump in and get caught up in this stuff (OR parents who have tried AP but ended up doing permissive parenting). Then they get brainwashed into thinking that tantrums aren't normal, they can "train" their child out of this (and a whole host of other things) :rolleyes The thing is...all of the child developments would totally DISagree with this. And these are people who DO know children, and not just the 15 that they have raised. Any child developmentalist will tell you that this stuff is normal. But these parents get so caught up in listening to people like the Pearls, and think they are the experts. :( I also agree that if it isn't new parents, it is those with a lot of kids who feels like she needs that "order" so she can function and have life be smooth.

[Katherine]

I also think that, at least within the Christian community, a lot of parents brush off what's "normal behavior" because they equate "normal" with sinful human nature. For example, it's "normal" for people to have selfish tendencies, but as Christians we are supposed to put others first. So a lot of people take that principle and apply it to children, insead of to mature adults, as it was intended. Thus, when children act out normal behaviors that are also irritating, inconvenient, embarrassing, or non-compliant, the parents feel like "sure this is normal... normal, *sinful* behavior! That's why I've got to train him away from this!

I recently got a letter from an elementary school friend (the one who gave me Pearl's books to begin with) :rolleyes and she was bragging about how her dd's (4th child) first words were "don't touch." It made me so sad to read it. I want my kids' first words to be something more positive, you know?

[APMamaX4]

I also think that, at least within the Christian community, a lot of parents brush off what's "normal behavior" because they equate "normal" with sinful human nature. For example, it's "normal" for people to have selfish tendencies, but as Christians we are supposed to put others first. So a lot of people take that principle and apply it to children, insead of to mature adults, as it was intended. Thus, when children act out normal behaviors that are also irritating, inconvenient, embarrassing, or non-compliant, the parents feel like "sure this is normal... normal, *sinful* behavior! That's why I've got to train him away from this!

I recently got a letter from an elementary school friend (the one who gave me Pearl's books to begin with) :rolleyes and she was bragging about how her dd's (4th child) first words were "don't touch." It made me so sad to read it. I want my kids' first words to be something more positive, you know?


I agree with this, too. I've seen all too often Christian parents say that their children is sinning against *them* (parent) by being normal (tantrums, fits, rebellion, etc.) This never really set too well with me. Is it just me, or is that almost like making yourself "God" by viewing your child as sinning against you? :think

[ArmsOfLove]

Yes, we're working with Ellie on coming on command and Lickers sits right down with just a hand signal . . . oh, wait . . . you're talking about children. Sorry, thought I must be in the Animal Companions fofum :cry

[Wonder Woman]

The methods in the Pearl book were so harsh! I looked at my sweet babe in arms (he was 2 months old at the time) and couldn't imagine leaving him to scream until he was cheerful. :banghead So, I researched...cruised the web...and found GCM! It all really does work for good.... :heart
So a lot of people take that principle and apply it to children, insead of to mature adults, as it was intended. Thus, when children act out normal behaviors that are also irritating, inconvenient, embarrassing, or non-compliant, the parents feel like "sure this is normal... normal, *sinful* behavior! That's why I've got to train him away from this!

I agree...coming from the POV that believed children could not only be possessed, but actually have the spirits beaten out of them. :eek Blecch. I've seen a lot of parents hold their own children to a higher standard than the one they hold for themselves. And even if one believes in infant baptism/covenant theology....those babies are still babies. To impose a standard on them that a mature believer doesn't or can't live up to...it's just sad. :cry

But hmmm..I think I'll brag on my ds's behavior for a moment. When I am naking here...and he decides I need to pay attention to him - He doesn't tantrum, scream, bite, or hit. He places his hand on the side of my face (where we practice "dentle tut" as he calls it) and strokes my cheek and says "Awww...ove you" :heart And all without the benefit of the Pearls. So there! :P

[Cindy]

I take it you happen to know these kids are "trained" a la Pearl/Ezzo? I only said that because my (AP'd) daughter was a very compliant little one who understood directions well... And yes... I too have been guilty of getting too excited about my children :O

[APMamaX4]

Yes, we're working with Ellie on coming on command and Lickers sits right down with just a hand signal . . . oh, wait . . . you're talking about children. Sorry, thought I must be in the Animal Companions fofum :cry


:roll

[APMamaX4]

I take it you happen to know these kids are "trained" a la Pearl/Ezzo? I only said that because my (AP'd) daughter was a very compliant little one who understood directions well... And yes... I too have been guilty of getting too excited about my children :O


OMgosh I hope you didn't think I was talking about YOU or any other AP'd child?? No, I was *specifically* referring to those poor babies who I KNOW are being trained a la Pearl/Ezzo~that was NOT a general statement about any child who behaves well! Coming from a punitive background, I know too many of these children, including IRL :(

[Cindy]

Naah... I really didn't think you were saying that. Just a bad post - they happen sometimes :blush

[Sanveann]

Yes, we're working with Ellie on coming on command and Lickers sits right down with just a hand signal . . . oh, wait . . . you're talking about children. Sorry, thought I must be in the Animal Companions fofum :cry


LOL! You know, it occurred to me recently ... as much as the Pearls compare training children to training animals -- which I strongly disagree with -- I wonder how much they actually KNOW about training animals. I mean, NO good dog trainer since the '50s has recommended hitting your dog. And Monty Roberts, "The Horse Whisperer," gets much better results with his gentle techniques than do people who try to "break" horses.

And anyway, I would never hit my dog. And if I wouldn't hit my pet, I certainly wouldn't hit my kid!

[UltraMother]

There are ppl who do the cio stuff at 2-3 WEEKS of age! And some, even DAYS old babies
When I was pg with my first, I stayd for a week with some friends who started cio the day they brought him home from the hospital. I didn't even know about ap at the time, but that sounded very cruel to me. But he was a very happy and compliant toddler, just his easygoing personality imnsho, and he was paraded around as "proof" of how well ezzo worked.

[at home momma]

wasn't it against the rules on the other board to talk about the woodshed by name? i thought one of our mods had an agreement with one of theirs not to allow discussion of each other's boards? just wondering?

love at home momma

[Katherine]

wasn't it against the rules on the other board to talk about the woodshed by name? i thought one of our mods had an agreement with one of theirs not to allow discussion of each other's boards? just wondering?

I wasn't a mod on the old board, so I don't know about this, but I will find out. Either I will post an answer, or I'll get someone who knows more about it to post one. :)

[milkmommy]

Here is what I hate. We did teach our DD that when we say no touch that means no touch. She learned and at a young age but NEVER in a punitive way just though redirrecting so she sson realized we ment what we said. Yet we have some neighbors who are "impressed" with DD but when we said we never used punitive methods (they are very Pearl) we get ohh yea your "lucky' we tried that but ours only responds if we spank.

Deanna

[APMamaX4]

wasn't it against the rules on the other board to talk about the woodshed by name? i thought one of our mods had an agreement with one of theirs not to allow discussion of each other's boards? just wondering?

love at home momma


It was against the rules on the other board.... but no one said anything about the W*odshed, in *this* thread; we were talking about the Pearls and any Pearl-promoting message boards. The W*odshed was mentioned in the poll where we were asked what punitive ideas influenced us. Pearl/W*odshed was an option. So, naturally, people who were influenced by W*odshed in that thread were saying so. But that's the only place I've seen it mentioned by name, unless I'm overlooking something.

[Cindy]

Here is what I hate. We did teach our DD that when we say no touch that means no touch. She learned and at a young age but NEVER in a punitive way just though redirrecting so she sson realized we ment what we said. Yet we have some neighbors who are "impressed" with DD but when we said we never used punitive methods (they are very Pearl) we get ohh yea your "lucky' we tried that but ours only responds if we spank.

Deanna


I definitely think you can "train" a child to only respond when you spank.

[Cindy]

I would guess they probably do not want the "shed" mentioned here either. The moderators have asked this about a few words because they do not want search engines turning up our boards for particular topics. It is really for our own protection. It might not be a bad idea to edit your posts...

[APMamaX4]

Here is what I hate. We did teach our DD that when we say no touch that means no touch. She learned and at a young age but NEVER in a punitive way just though redirrecting so she sson realized we ment what we said. Yet we have some neighbors who are "impressed" with DD but when we said we never used punitive methods (they are very Pearl) we get ohh yea your "lucky' we tried that but ours only responds if we spank.

Deanna


Isn't that the way it always is?? If you are punitive, then that "reiterates" how great punitive parenting is. If, however, you aren't punitive, then you are "lucky". I'm glad I have 4 kids....people start taking me seriously, now that I have more than them LOL I didn't "luck out" with 4, kwim? LOL

[APMamaX4]

I would guess they probably do not want the "shed" mentioned here either. The moderators have asked this about a few words because they do not want search engines turning up our boards for particular topics. It is really for our own protection. It might not be a bad idea to edit your posts...


Fair enough (and I edited). But FTR, I didn't say anything about W*odshed until it was mentioned by name, asking of we were to mention it by name :cookie :cookie :cookie

[Cindy]

All I can think of is "Mom! Gues what Tommy said??? He said %#$@!!" :lol

:cookie :cup

[APMamaX4]

All I can think of is "Mom! Gues what Tommy said??? He said %#$@!!" :lol

:cookie :cup


So???? I know you are but what am I?? :D :mrgreen :lol

[Cindy]

"I am rubber and you are glue - whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"

Wow, this conversation is degenerating fast... :lol

[APMamaX4]

"I am rubber and you are glue - whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"

Wow, this conversation is degenerating fast... :lol


:poke

ROFL I guess no one else is mature enough to keep up with us. Humph!

[milkmommy]

"I am rubber and you are glue - whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"

Wow, this conversation is degenerating fast... :lol


:poke

ROFL I guess no one else is mature enough to keep up with us. Humph!


http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage26/11.gif I'm so mature enough!

Deanna

[APMamaX4]

I'm so mature enough!

I'm telling...you stuck your tongue out at me.

But meanwhile...lol

I agree that the Pearls don't seem to know much about current animal training either. But it seems like this is how they attract people.... by *sounding* like they know what they are talking about, but in reality (if you were to check it out) they don't. Sad, really. :(

[Cindy]

I agree that the Pearls don't seem to know much about current animal training either. But it seems like this is how they attract people.... by *sounding* like they know what they are talking about, but in reality (if you were to check it out) they don't. Sad, really. :(


I have owned a few dogs - and freely admit I am a terrible trainer (which is why no dogs currently reside with us...) In my reading and obediance classes, I was always admonished NEVER to hit my dog...

[4blessings]

Why is it that some people feel the need to brag about what their *little babies* are capable of doing? On another board that I was reading, people were boasting about how their babies-we're talking 6-9 months here, so under age 1- are so well trained that they stop crying on command, come to them on command, and don't touch things on command. Bragging at how they get looks of awe when they tell their 6 month olds to not touch or whatever, and the baby "obeys".

I KWYM. I remember a post that I read on a highly punitive parenting board once where the mom was talking about how cute it was that her little baby was scooting around in his crib with his head on the mattress b/c he had learned that if he lifted his head, he got swatted. She was proud that she had trained him to keep his head down. :(

[ArmsOfLove]

that is outright abusive. It's crazy to me the things that people are proud of :td

As for the Woodshed, Jeri has talked with the owner there and they have agreed to not allow threads that bash the other site. We don't have a policy I'm aware of about not mentioning the word, it's just a courtesy we are giving between boards--a respect despite our different philosophies.

[ShowersofBlessings]

wasn't it against the rules on the other board to talk about the woodshed by name? i thought one of our mods had an agreement with one of theirs not to allow discussion of each other's boards? just wondering?

love at home momma


I thought it was against the rules to post a LINK. And ftr, W**dshedders did post links to our site even after the "agreement" had been reached. :(

[Katherine]

I don't know about Woodshed, but it is against GCM rules to post links to punitive parenting sites.

[APMamaX4]

wasn't it against the rules on the other board to talk about the woodshed by name? i thought one of our mods had an agreement with one of theirs not to allow discussion of each other's boards? just wondering?

love at home momma


I thought it was against the rules to post a LINK. And ftr, W**dshedders did post links to our site even after the "agreement" had been reached. :(


When our *name* gets mentioned, she usually does edit those posts, tho.

[at home momma]

thanks for clearing that up. i didn't want anyone to get in to trouble :)

love at home momma

[APMamaX4]

thanks for clearing that up. i didn't want anyone to get in to trouble :)

love at home momma


YW (if you were talking to me lol) And also, usually if someone posts a link to GCM, someone ELSE will come along and remind that person that they aren't supposed to be putting GCM links on the W*odshed. :)