Tedd Tripp's book and other problems

[Embracing Grace]

This is going to be somewhat of a vent (only a little). So bear with me, please!

Our dear, beloved church sent us a copy Tedd Tripps Shepherding a Child's Heart as a gift for ds's birth! I never imagined this book would ever end up in our home!! Prior to receiving this package I was beginning to get really suspicious that our church is actually really punitive. This is a very large church, and several times I have seen parents slinging their babies/toddlers during the worship service. I was pretty content, thinking that I was not the only one in the gentle/ap parenting circle. Recently we had lunch with our worship leader (they just had their second baby), and dh mentioned to them that we were having some sleeping issues with ds. The mom became really excited and started telling me that she used to be AP with her first son, but saw the truth and the light when someone presented her with a copy of Babywise. Their little boy had a terribly traumatic birth, and was very HN. According to her, Babywise transformed him overnight into a very happy and content baby. UGH. :sick This made me soooo sick! These people want us to join their small group (bible study) too. Dh really wants to join, but I feel so bad about it. I want to avoid those people and their parental advice at all cost. It appears that they equate spanking and scheduling your baby with righterousness and faith! It appears the absolytely everyone at the church thinks that! :eek Their small group is especially for young couples with small children, so I can only imagine myself in that environment.... :sick Ahhh.. I don't know what to do. We are not in the right place to leave this church. Dh is on the music team, and he also teaches a sunday school class. I attempted to go to their MOMS group, but after all this I can barely stand the thought of being there. Anyway, I ended up reading Tripp's book. It was soo discouraging! His whole point is that if you DON'T spank, you are in direct and willful violation of God's plan for you and your children. Your children will grow up without any knowledge of God and His righteousness. How sick!! :mad

I have to run right now. Sorry, this was kind of a ramble! I just feel completely alone in this. DH tries to be supportive, and he is, but he is also very sensitive to the influence of others in our church.

Thanks for listening, sorry for the spelling errors.

[AmyDoll]

(((Olga)))
I'm sooo sorry you're going through this!!!! We left our church bc (among other reasons) they started a parenting class based on Tripp's book :hissyfit
I actually got a hold of a copy of the book and his whole premis about children is SICK :sick and WRONG :banghead

I can read other parenting books that have punitive aspects and glean some knowledge from them - but this guy just starts from such a ROTTEN SICK place that children are sinful demons and you just need to beat the devil outta them. YUCKY!!!! And I can't stand how he equates parenting with "being God" to your children!!!! UGH!!!!!!!

I wouldn't want to be around parents that "Shepherd their Child's Heart" - I'd want to cry too --- and I'd be SUPER annoyed if they started giving me parenting advice. Ugh. You're going to need A LOT of Bean Dip. :hug

Hugs,
Amy

[Cindy]

Actually Tripp's whole premise of guiding the child's heart breaks down when he comes to spanking. While his "proper" approach to spanking intertwines the punishment with communication, the recommended ages to begin make that communication impossible. Spanking is nothing more than another behavior modification approach which he warns against in the early chapters of his book.

I have read it recently because we are currently involved in a debate over the book at our church. I have been writing about the problems with it - I am up to 10 pages and still going... I think we have prevented it from being taught again anytime soon (only because nobody wants to offend us). But at this time spanking is still regarded and will be taught as "Biblical discipline"... at least that is their intention... dh and I are in the class too ;)

[sadie]

What does she mean that she did ap and then "saw the light?" Did she mean that she did ap and then realized that it is a lot easier to do Babywise and ignore her child's needs and cues? :mad :mad

I can't even answer you rationally. That is infuriating. No help here, sorry. I just know how you feel. Dealing with people like that is :banghead

[Embracing Grace]

I understand that a person's heart is evil and sinful, but I cannot believe that people actually think that you can drive the evil and sinfulness away somehow. The only way to cleanse a person's heart is through the shed blood of Jesus. You cannot drive sin away by spanking a child. What on earth are people thinking? That thought is completely unbiblical!

Thanks for letting me vent. I saw the thread with the recommended books for GBD, and will be doing a lot of reading to beef up my convictions. This weekend I ran across Jesus on Parenting at Borders and brough it home. Dh is (thankfully) very interested in reading it. Dh says that he doesn't want to spank ds, only when it is the absolute last resort. I'm hoping we won't come to a place where we need to resort to anything like that. I know I won't, but it will take a while to convice Dh. :rolleyes

:)

[ArmsOfLove]

((((Olga)))) situations like yours require wisdom to decide what to do. Do you think you could be a positive influence on the other women in the group? Or do you think that you would be too negatively influenced by them? Or that dh would be too negatively influenced? That's how I'd decide what to do. You can't save the world, but you can figure out what part of the world God is calling you to influence. It has to start with your own immediate family and move out from there, though :)

I'm sorry you're struggling with this right now--how frustrating to be learning all of this :( :hug

[Katherine]

Cindy,

I would be really interested in what you are writing up about Tripp. My impression is that he is one of the "new" faces of acceptable harsh discipline in the Christian community... he is getting in the door even in places where Ezzo and Pearl aren't. Also there is info out there against Ezzo and Pearl but not a lot about Tripp. I have the book but wasn't at a place where I could finish reading all of it. :sick I will, eventually, though... just for my own ability to converse intelligently about it.

If you ever have a finished product, would you consider posting it somewhere? (blog?, or you could even email me) :)

Paula

[ShowersofBlessings]

I would love to read a copy of what you are writing too Cindy. My pastor is a huge Tripp fan. :(

[ArmsOfLove]

Maybe you could post it in the UFP forum??? I would love to read it.

[Embracing Grace]

Oh me too, definitely! :tu

I'm not sure, I think that we're definitely not going to be anti-social and avoid people. I just have to cool it, and accept the fact that most people at my church do not agree with a gentle parenting method. I definitely need to study the scripture for myself and read up on other discipline tactics so that I can present clear answers and reasons for our lifestyle. Dh on the other hand will have a hard time dealing with people's advice. I just have to pray for him.

Anyway, I will be checking the UFP board to see if Cindy posts anything!

Thanks.

[Oliveshoots]

(((Olga))) from me, too. So sorry you are facing this. I don't know if it's a "blessing or a curse", but right now, my church is kind of indifferent in a way to parenting products, so I don't have to deal with the Trippies, but I still am on my own crusade of sorts.

I would agree with Crystal about being a positive influence where God has placed you. I guess if I were in your situation, I would see one of two choices: 1) be a shining light in this small group in defense of children and to share with them about the Godliness of Christian AP/GBD/PD and 2) "swim away! swim away!" I guess a third choice would be to sit there and not say anything, and run the risk of your dh buying into what they are teaching. I can identify with a dh that is not completely "sold" on not spanking. Although my dh has made some beautiful comments to other people about not spanking/hitting, sadly he has done it a couple of times :/ HOWEVER....lately I have just had the attitude of, "well, I can't convict him and I can't make him form his opinions, but I can continue on with speaking up for what I've been convicted of, and maybe it will influence him as well." And I think it's working!! yesterday I was sharing with him my ideas about the Spank-Out Day events I want to do, and he was very supportive. Also, he is going back to school to be a teacher with special needs students, and we were talking about a school system here in NC that uses corporal punishment on their special needs (autistic) kids :eek :mad and he was shocked that they weren't being arrested (evidently, some forms of corp punishment are legal in our state? big shocker for me) and he made the comment "if you can't even spank your own kid, why would you think it would be legal to spank someone elses?" ANYWAY...that's a long way for me to say "he's coming around" and I think it's because he sees me defending it without putting pressure on him to change. I feel kind of like Esther in a way. ;)

SO....
Maybe you need to be an Esther in this situation, if you're up for it.
You can always make comments in the study like...."Hmmmmm...I'm not sure about this. I'm reminded of the question "what would Jesus do?" And then if someone pursues your comment, you could go on to explain why you don't feel that Jesus would condone corporal punishment because of certain verses (here you could whip out your Bible...they can't argue with that!) and quote verses like the one about becoming like a child, and "for such is the kingdom of God" and "turn the other cheek" and "Peter, put away your sword". And if they bring up "the rod" verses, you could use Crystal's info about the true meaning of the shebet and how the rod symbolizes authority, not punishment or pain. Or if you're really feeling catty, (did I use that word in the right context?) you could say, "Um, HELLO? We're quoting Solomon here! Since when did Solomon write anything with a literal meaning? Almost everything he writes is symbolic! He talks about wisdom as if she were a living, human woman. And in Song of Songs, EVERYTHING is symbolic! So why would we not take these rod verses symbolically?" And correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont' think the NT ever uses the word "rod". It uses words like "chasten" "rebuke" and "discipline". Which of course, all mean correction, instruction, teaching. I think it would be awfully hard for someone to argue that those words mean literally hitting and spanking and punishing your child.
Oh, and here's one more little clip of ammunition for you ;) (I wish I didn't view this as having "ammunition", but that's the way it feels sometimes...like I'm defending my parenting beliefs out of this little foxhole loaded up with all my quotes and scriptures): I read a testimony on the spank-out webiste and this lady made a very good point that if Christ has already taken on the punishment for our sins, WHY would we feel a need to punish our children or ourselves? That sort of makes a mockery out of His sacrifice. (She was much more eloquent...that is not an exact quote, obviously.)
I just remembered another good quote...."the rod of correction" is alot like the "long arm of the law"...I think that was written by PastorsWife (Laurie) on the old GCM board or on her website....but I'm not positive. It's not a REAL ARM people!!! It's figurative!! So maybe it's not a REAL ROD!!! (My words, not hers...again, she said it so much more eloquently.) Hello McFly. I just want to scream that at some people sometimes :banghead :banghead :banghead

Sorry, this turned into a vent for me too.

I hope maybe some of my babbling helps.

Ultimately, like others have said, you do what's best for you and your family in this situation. But if you are up to it, sister, then stay in there and defend your parenting convictions. :)

Oh, and I would also recommend buying and reading Crystal's book. Maybe ask the small group if you could lead them in a study of it after you're finished putting the Tedd Tripp book down the garbage disposal. OOOPS I mean after you've finished studying and discussing the Tedd Tripp book. :laughtears I crack myself up. I'm in such a silly mood today I guess because I actually got 6 hours of sleep last night!! (Thanks, kids!)

[This Busy Mom]

I would be interested in the info on Tripp, too. I know a lot of homeschooling moms that LIKE the book. They know I am anti-spanking and boy oh BOY do I have my work cut out having a very difficult to discipline son. They say spank him... I say NO. This book has been shoved at me more times than I care to say. I read it, tried it, and hated it.

BTW, my hard to discipline boy is now happily shoving laundry in the washer :laughtears

Christa

[Cindy]

It is about time I finished that, isn't it? I can say you will probably see a few familiar quotes... ;)

Unfortunately the computer it is in is down at the moment ... :hissyfit

[Embracing Grace]

I agree with you, Kristen. Thanks for the encouraging words! I think that I can be a positive influence on those moms. I know that if I take care of myself spiritually, and stay connected to the word of God, then I definitely have the patience and wisdom from God to deal with all this.

I feel so much better now. :) I know that Dh and I can do this. I just hope that the people in the church won't completely condemn us as people who undermine the authority of the Bible. Well, if they do- not a big deal, lol. :rolleyes

You are all tremendously encouraging!! Thanks! :tu

[Oliveshoots]

I just hope that the people in the church won't completely condemn us as people who undermine the authority of the Bible.



Hmmmm...well, it appears to me that *they* (I hate using that word in that tone) are the ones udnermining the authority of the Bible. If you read the Bible as a WHOLE....the ENTIRE WORD of God, you simply cannot come to the conclusion that God would have us punish and bring intentional harm to our children: physically, emotionally, or spiritually. You just can't. If you "hide His Word in your heart", you will understand that He is a God of unconditional love, endless grace, and deep, deep relationship.

But, of course, try explaining that to *them*. :banghead

[starbelly7]

cindy i would love to read your note as well, we currently have 2 copies of this book in our home gifted to us by family, i need some info as i'm feeling a bit out numbered. :mad

[Radosny Matka]

:hug