Hebrews 12:6-8

[Cindy]

Crystal, your website contains an article about these verses:

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye s, and not sons.

also (NIV)

6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”[a]

7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

You explained in your article that your study was incomplete. Have you investigated this any further yet? You know - in all your free time :lol These verses have been brought to my attention by an elder of my church...

[ArmsOfLove]

I have--and I need to update the article ;)

I believe it's very important to remember with that passage the context--it was written to believers who were being persecuted and is saying, in essence, because Jesus, God's Only Begotten Son, was persecuted while on earth, who are we, God's Children, to think we won't be persecuted. The passage doesn't say that earthly fathers should punish because God does; it says that when our earthly fathers disciplined us, even punished (and this isn't in the Hebrew of the original verses but I acknowledge that the author is using the Greek and, I believe, for a purpose), and we trusted that they love us--how much more we should believe that God loves us even when our circumstances are harsh.

[ShowersofBlessings]

Even though I haven't studied this, I just wanted to point out a though that I recently had about this.

Even *if* God punishes us, he shows us mercy and grace at the same time. He doesn't punish us as we deserve. (Isn't there a verse that says this somewhere?) The wages of sin is death, but God gives life to us, even though we don't deserve. So, imho, the consequences of our actions actually serve to demonstrate his grace and mercy more than his punishment......

[Cindy]

Even though I haven't studied this, I just wanted to point out a though that I recently had about this.

Even *if* God punishes us, he shows us mercy and grace at the same time. He doesn't punish us as we deserve. (Isn't there a verse that says this somewhere?) The wages of sin is death, but God gives life to us, even though we don't deserve. So, imho, the consequences of our actions actually serve to demonstrate his grace and mercy more than his punishment......


I completely agree, Rebekah! At some point I read an article that explained that death *is* the natural consequence of sin. It was the choice Adam and Eve made in the garden, not something that was imposed on us by God.

As we look around at others who are dealing with troubles, is it right to assume they are being "punished" for something they did wrong? I believe Job speaks to this... but if we accept the view that God punishes us, this is where we end up - don't you think?