Advise me: 8 yr old boys!

[Garnet]

Oh Lord! *tired mommy* Its been a long tiring week. I just got done working 76 hrs in the last two weeks, and I am tired! My 8 yr old, Brandon, is going through a difficult time. He's getting in trouble at school because he "chooses to do something different than what everyone else does", his teachers words, "he won't listen", or "work to his ability" She called home yesterday because he was "acting up so badly she couldn't deal with him anymore" Those of you mamas who know me ;) know Brandon has ADHD. His teacher got wind of his drs appointment and sent home a letter saying he is disruptive, and has problems concentrating. Which is true, but if he were allowed to get rid of some energy, he would probably do better when he needs to sit and pay attention. I am unwilling to "up" his meds at this point. I do not want a zombie for a child. I will discuss it w/ my dr, and see what is best.

But now, he's acting up at home, talking back, stealing things, tormenting his brother and sister. His grandma picked him up to take him to the mall, and he tried to steal a toy and gift certificates. *rolling eyes* He promised me he would behave for grandma, and she says he was running everywhere, talking back, begging her to buy him toys, and then trying to steal. I sent him to his room after a talk about stealing, and behaving for grandma, etc. He's in there reading a book. What do I do next?

Its so much easier to GBD the little ones, but now Brandon is torn whether he wants to be close to us, or whether he wants a childhhod "like everybody else" his words.

[ArmsOfLove]

now Brandon is torn whether he wants to be close to us, or whether he wants a childhhod "like everybody else" his words. Can you explain this any more?

[TulipMama]

*hug*

I've got an 8 year old, too. Different issues, but similar I'm sure in where they are developmentally. We're in the middle of transitions in our life, and I've seen it impact my 8 y/o more than I expected. *hug* I don't have advice, really. But I've found extra cuddling time, touching, hugging, snuggling has been really important for my 8 y/o right now. (And helps me calm down and reconnect, too. . .)

[Garnet]

Well, he's old enough to realize we don't parent like the parents of children who live around here, or the children he is friends with. The parents around here are much more laid back than we are. They think nothing of letting their 5 yr olds walk to school alone, or roam all over the neighborhood.

[ArmsOfLove]

Have you talked to him about why you make the choices you do? Had a real dialogue with him where you reflect his feelings, and share yours? And then maybe you will find there is some room for negotiation, but also firm up where you draw the lines? At 8 I might pull out GDB's 'Protecting the Gift' and go over the rules he has for when a child is ready to be away from you alone and openly talk about where you feel he is ready and where he isn't, talk about some of the exercises he shares in the book (like the mom who would have her son find out the time and then talk to him about who he chose to ask and why, etc) and start actively doing some of them--set a plan to get him ready to be away from you.

[Garnet]

I don't have that book. :( I had to dash off for church there, so I didn't get to finish my thought......Brandon is going through a stage now where he is starting to feel peer pressure, etc and also where it seems he goes back and forth between wanting us to trust him to do the right thing, and needing us to set rules. The bottom line is, his behavior at school is unacceptable, and it needs to stop. I don't care whether his teacher thinks he needs more meds or not, thats not her descision. But the problems at school have to stop. ( I wish I could have him here at home to teach...)

[Garnet]

bumping for more advice. :blush

I guess Brandon got in trouble w/ his teacher again today, she had him sit in Hope's kindergarten class during recess, and study. He refused to bring home his notebook, which his teacher reports to us in.

[Quietspirit]

It sounds to me as if the stresses he is experiencing in school are spilling over into other areas of his life. If he constantly gets the message that he is a "failure" (and that is what it sounds like his teacher is saying), then that is going to have some BIG negative ramifications at home and elsewhere. :( I would have a serious, significant talk with his teacher. Lay out what you expect of her, how it might fit in her classroom, and how best to help your son. Use language like "positive learning experience", "positive learning attitude", "successful learning experience", "work as a team between parent and teacher" with her.

Ultimately, we pulled out 10 year old out of school to homeschool and it's the best decision we EVER made.

[Chris3jam]

Oh, dear. This thread is bringing up some bad memories for me (along with buckets of tears). :cry I had a child very much like that (ADHD, with other problems, as well). He's 21 now. The only thing I can say is --- if i had known then what I know now, I would have pulled him out of school and hsomeschooled him. As it is, I did that for the high school years. It really was too late by then -- too much damage had been done, and I fear I just added to the confusion. But, of course, he had many other problems, as well. If you cannot be with him at home, I would try and talk to the teacher, like the pp said. Enlist cooperation. Make the teacher(s) see that this is an individual child, not a square peg to force into a round hole. Enlist HIS cooperation. Do try to talk to him, and listen, listen, listen.

[Garnet]

Brandon had developemental delays (DD) amd ADHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. He is an 8 yr old with the mind of a six year old. Which is usually ok, but the behaviors he has come from a 6 yr old perspective, so his teacher automatically thinks, He knows better. But clearly, he doesn't. Like the other evening at homework time, the book she assigned him was impossible for him to read! I know they are supposed to be learning how to sound out words.....but the book was about a dinosaur, growing up in a family whose last name was Lazardo in a place called Pimlico Hills and there was a whole lot thrown it about limosines, cruise ships, etc. He can't sound those out! And she expects him to do this work by himself!

So yes, alot of it is school. But sadly some is home too. I am working so much, I am rarely at home. When I am home, I resentfully catch up on all the things my dh has left for me to do, and try to cram in errands, family time, etc. :(

[Chris3jam]

Does his teacher know all this? Can he/she not work with him? I can so understand what you are saying! To make you feel better. . . . my son was in a special class (he was always in "special" classes) once where he was the ONLY student. Perfect, you say? Yeah. Right. She even called the police about him once. :bheart I was CONSTANTLY being called from work. :( Trust me, I know behaviour problems. :bheart And, I say this with many, many tears, and very carefully, with much love, is there ANY way you can pull him out and homeschool him? Is there ANY way for your family to get along on just one salary? Is there a way to rearrange for work to be done in the evening? I'm so sorry if I've overstepped my bounds, but this is weighing SO heavy on my heart!

[Garnet]

I think I will have to homeschool him, but I just sold my books to anothe rlady! Argh! Ok, yes his teacher does know, I've spoken to her on several occasions....in fact, I called na IEP ( Individual Education Plan) meeting for December, and have had YET to hear back from them. My son's dr says it is law they have to comply within 10 days of notification of a problem. Brandon was in special ed classes, about 2 years ago, but he did so well under his teachers care(Mrs. Hermann, a gift from God!) that they saw no need to keep him in special ed, and moved him to another class, where he did not do so well. And now its snowballing. :cry

I am goign to talk to dh this evening about hsing.

[ArmsOfLove]

Hunh? he was doing well in special ed so they moved him??? that makes no sense :(

[Chris3jam]

Hunh? he was doing well in special ed so they moved him??? that makes no sense :(


Yep. That's how it worked for us. They do "well" in the class, so they feel the child is ready to be "integrated" in the "regular" classes. With mine, the did it a class at a time. Didn't work too well. But they had to, because when they got to a certain grade, there was no more provision for "special ed". So he had to be in a "regular" class by then. Anyway, that's how it worked for us. I am assuming they are doing something similar with Brandon?

But, again, coming from my heart, homeschooling is best for these children because it removes the "competition" and unnecessary stresses, and they can work at their own pace, be it slower or faster. And usually, it will be faster. And there are SO many things on the 'net now, that one can homeschool a child for free. It will be hard at first, because of what he is used to, there's no getting around it. But, I believe, it will be worth it to get your son back.

That's my heart talking. I'm sorry if I said something inappropriate.

[Garnet]

Thats what I said! See, when dh and I were seperated, Brandon had alot of behavioral issues. He'd just get up and walk away from his class, he refused to do work, etc. He was so upset emotionally, he couldn't function mentally. :cry But then when Chris and I reunited, he came home, went back on his meds, I re adjusted his diet, etc, and he was a brand new kid! Now though he is having trouble reading, and he still has certain behaviors his teacher picks on. Such as, I don't know why, but for some reason he prefers to kneel in chairs rather than sit. And at first I'd ask him to sit on his bottom, but then I figured, he'll grow out of it, as long as he does his work/eats his food, I don't care if he kneels in the chair or not. Also, just silly things that go back to the ADHD, and DD. Like singing at teh top of his lungs in the bathroom, hopping down teh hall, etc.

[ArmsOfLove]

okay--teacher sounds like a control freak :shifty who cares if he sits on his knees or hops down the hall :shrug

I would get him out of her class! Whether you homeschool or demand another teacher, please be an advocate for your ds :(

[Garnet]

TY I think so, to, but trying to convince dh..... she says he's a disruption when he does those things, but I don't see how. Unless some one makes a big deal about it. :shrug

[Chris3jam]

That's the thing -- they will make a big deal about stuff like that. I never got that, either. And I agree -- that teacher sounds like a real control freak. Maybe you could get him back in the other class?

[Katigre]

Oh this is so hard. I agree with the others that homeschooling him would probably be the best option at this point. I als wouldn't discount him getting some resource help (like an in-school tutor) or doing better with a different teacher.

I also think it's important to assign positive intent to the teacher and try to see where she's coming from in this. If you can show her that you understand her situation when you talk to her, instead of coming at things combatively, that will help things a lot (i speak from experience here).

My ADHD students don't all have IEP's, just some. But I would call the special ed teacher/school again to set another IEP meeting. Oftentimes as a teacher unless you have received specific training and detailed information about a child you don't know how much of their behavior is beyond their control and how much is their own choice. I know this is helpful for me to have more detailed instructions. Even if he doesn't have an IEP he could have an 504 Plan which is similar but not as involved.

As a teacher, i can see where the teacher is coming from with her own frustration. I wonder if she's just had it 'up to here' and feels like she doesn't know where to go from here? Having a meeting with the special ed teacher, you and the teacher might help b/c then you'll all be on the same page about things, including discipline strategies and behavioral expectations. If she has a 'roadmap' for how to proceed that will help a lot i'm sure.

From her perspective, she can't view the situation as just your child's actions that affect only him--because they aren't isolated. A classroom is a miniature community and what one person does affects others affects the whole classroom. It can make other students disruptive (b/c they see one doing it and think 'why can't i too?') and it's very hard to get things done b/c the majority of your time then gets spent on classroom management rather than teaching and learning. It is a snowball effect that is difficult to explain unless you see it in action.

Here is a possible scenario for how it goes (whether the standards themselves are right or wrong is another issue, but from everything i've seen in traditional elementary schools they are very very common and not likely to change i don't think). A lot of these 'standards' have to do with the fact that they're in big groups, and what you can allow one-on-one (or in a small group) just leads to chaos in a large group, and that elementary teachers on the whole tend to be more 'routine and rigid standards' focused (whereas high school teachers tend to be a lot more laid back with things).

Example: Classroom standard is to walk quietly down the hall. This is important b/c it doesnt disrupt/distract the other classes, and also helps the students move orderly and quickly back to class. The class has gone to the bathroom and is on their way back to class. Student A wants to hop down the hall instead of walk quietly, and she does. The students behind her see it and think it's funny so they start laughing. One of them says "Teacher! A is hopping down the hall!" Then the students in the front turn around to see what's going on. A few students start hopping too. The kids in the classroom they are in front of see/hear what's going on and get distracted from the math the teacher is doing on the board. Now the teacher has to try and quiet down and get reorganized 30 students who are all distracted, which takes extra time and energy. And the teacher in the classroom has to refocus her class as well.

The action of hopping down the hall wasn't wrong! It was a normal and fun thing to do. But the problem was in how it affected everyone around them b/c it was a large group and things snowballed out of control. Does that make sense? And a huge downside of being in large groups is that individual students can get shafted in this approach, and it's hard to resolve b/c often it is a matter of 'order for the majority vs. the needs of a few who don't fit the standard 'mold' (which isn't bad! that's just how God made them). It's major issue for teachers without easy solutions.

So I guess i'd ask you to have compassion on the teacher and give her the benefit of the doubt as a partner vs. an adversary. She probably is very frustrated and doesn't know what to do, especially since it is most likely affecting her whole classroom and teaching. I hope what i posted helps you to look at the situation from another angle. Your son is a precious and valuable person, and i hate seeing kids put into situations that don't fit who they are as people. It leads to frustration for everyone. I hope you're able to figure out a solution that works well for your family.

[Chris3jam]

The action of hopping down the hall wasn't wrong! It was a normal and fun thing to do. But the problem was in how it affected everyone around them b/c it was a large group and things snowballed out of control. Does that make sense? And a huge downside of being in large groups is that individual students can get shafted in this approach, and it's hard to resolve b/c often it is a matter of 'order for the majority vs. the needs of a few who don't fit the standard 'mold' (which isn't bad! that's just how God made them). It's major issue for teachers without easy solutions.

See, that's one of the reasons I think children like this can benefit SO much from homeschooling, or a one on one environment. It is SO difficult for them to fit into what I call the "crowd" mold! I have one that stands on his head while he's listening to a story, and another who kneels on the chair also. I think you are right about how to approach the teacher (cooperatively), but I also know that her hands are tied. Like you said, Brandon needs to follow a set of rules that is nigh impossible for kids like this to follow, without a good one-on-one, hands-on approach (speaking as having had one very bad one, and 2 now). For instance, I have to let my "head-stander" sit in my lap as part of the process of teaching him, or letting him get used to, the fact that it is not always particularly appropriate to stand on one's head all the time! :D I HAVE to use LOTS of eye-contact, and physical contact to keep their attention and keep them focused. Teachers just cannot do that. Not that they don't want to, but it is logistically impossible. And working on it NOW is much, much better than letting it go and seeing if he will just "fall in line".

Ok, stepping off the soapbox now! I know the above probably didn't help you much, mafiedler, and your child is probably different from mine in subtle but important ways, but I have been drawn to this thread for some reason. I hope, again, that I didn't offend. :)

[Katigre]

a set of rules that is nigh impossible for kids like this to follow, without a good one-on-one, hands-on approach (speaking as having had one very bad one, and 2 now). For instance, I have to let my "head-stander" sit in my lap as part of the process of teaching him, or letting him get used to, the fact that it is not always particularly appropriate to stand on one's head all the time! :D I HAVE to use LOTS of eye-contact, and physical contact to keep their attention and keep them focused. Teachers just cannot do that. Not that they don't want to, but it is logistically impossible.
This is SO true! (And i'm glad to hear how well things are going with your son :)). If i had a class of just 3 students, even if all had ADHD, we could get a lot done and their ADHD wouldn't be as much of an issue b/c i could focus on them and keep them engaged. Hopping vs. walking wouldn't create a snowball effect b/c there aren't enough students to get 'snowballed'. But in a class of 30 i couldn't do that, b/c if i give the 3 ADHD students the individual attention they need to learn well, i shortchange and give second class treatment to the other 27 students in the class and that isn't right either. It's a catch-22.

[Quietspirit]

(((hugs)))

I'd pull him out of school if it's at all possible. :hug